newandold
-
Posts
568 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by newandold
-
-
14 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
Just thought I'd add that while I completely agree with this statement, they sure do sound great biamped with a McIntosh MC2120 on the mid/highs, and a MC2300 on the bottom. Both amps have gain controls, and the 2120 has switchable input sensitivity so that I can get it down to .75v which is close to the 2300's .50v .
Happy holidays everyone!
Is that the latest with the AR’s removed?
They are great speakers, but the A1’s need no help!
-
The CD 6 remains a unique and highly restorable loudspeaker.
The tweeters could be the biggest challenge if you have a failed one (so rare) but it is the two way that is common to the A4 A5, 6, 7.
Using EBay or a marketplace of your choosing you could If needed take a tweeter from any of those and use it in yours.
The woofers are conventional enough that they can be restored by any competent speaker repair outfit (like Simply Speakers, etc.
-
25 minutes ago, samberger0357 said:
Yes I realize that. But you still can read how that won’t let you hear what the speaker fully has to offer without a lot more quality watts. And I do think that’s not wrong. But unlike a speaker like the AR3 where the recommendation was for 25 watts but it’s clear that more is better, the One’s are nowhere as picky. They get loud fast with my 1060 and the bass is pretty much as satisfying as with a 200 watt McIntosh amp. Which surprised me, thus my post.
Meaningful also, to point out, the “super amps” of the 70’s were not on the scene yet for the AR to benefit by (though still there were plenty arriving around the same time period).
That ease of output seen by the ones is largely due to double the number of drivers from the 3. Like so many voices added to the mix the output increase was rather dramatic.
As if that were not enough, going from 12 drivers in the A1 to 20 in the IC’s, that additional impact was once again felt, but on a new level of live with no strain whatsoever.
-
7 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
Recently acquired a 30 watt(although bench testing in the day indicated that it could hit the 40-45 watt range) Marantz 1060, and have delighted with how it handles the A1's without issue. Using a McIntosh C11 preamp, and the sound is warm, yet not without detail, and provides the same room filling experience as does the 200+ watt amps I've used. No issue with loss of bottom end either(don't know if the ESW I'm also using has anything to do with that...probably not so much) and overall an extremely satisfying combination.
Granted I don't have a huge listening room, so even when I am listening to something that I want to crank the gain with more then usual, it doesn't take much to get the speakers more then loud enough for me.
Bottom line, and as newandold indicated, one doesn't necessarily need a very big amp to get these speakers to sound good/great.
Roy Allison himself stated (back in the day) that 30 wpc with these puppies was all it took to get 100db. SPL in a typical listening room. That would be without the ESW
-
On 2/21/2019 at 3:31 PM, mikezohsix said:
I understand I will not have the push pull woofers, and will not have "real" IC20's, but I'll be closer to them then I currently am with my refreshed A:1's. I have considered the push pull, and could print the reverse woofer tube, which I may very well do if I decide to build IC20 replica cabinets. I'm not there yet, this is an interim experiment, that may never go any further.
I've played with stacking speakers, running multiples, and have always found the results interesting. You gain some things and lose other things. One of my other plans is to build a pair of either a 16 or 25 driver linear array. More drivers seem to mean more music. Roger Russell's, of McIntosh speaker fame in the same time frame as Roy Allison, last project was the IDS-25 array. Look it up, it's got quite a following, and I may not be remembering correctly, but I think RA was experimenting with them also.
Guess where I'm going with all this is I'd like to "correctly" add more drivers to the A:1. And by correctly, I mean use the original drivers (have them), and build the IC20 cross over - which I will do. To house the added four drivers to my "tops", I had first thought about cutting up a set of empty A:1 cabinets my son has, essentially lop the top off, flip it over, and put new top on it, and put it on top of my A:1. I was persuaded not to sacrifice those cabinets, so will build new. So now I'm committed to building new top cabinets, so really just want to see if RA kept the mid to tweet spacing the same as the A:1.
I may even build the switchable cross over, haven't decided yet, but if I do, it won't be remotely operated. So, short of the push pull, and the cabinet volume, I'll be as close as can be. Roy is not building these anymore, and as we all know, they're extremely rare, so how would one get close? - I think the path I'm on is pretty solid.
Not surprisingly…..it appears this project has been shelved
-
On 11/10/2021 at 10:50 AM, samberger0357 said:
Thanks for your comments. As always appreciated.
I'm not looking to improve the bass response at this point. Really the point of my comments were to point out how, somewhat surprisingly to me the speakers had opened up and produced a sound that included a lot more bass then when they first came into my life almost a week ago. I've experienced break in with other components in the past, some very subtle, others less so. But usually with used gear that hasn't undergone any type of major surgery there's no noticeable change from when I get it. Sometimes older tube gear responds to new or fresh tubes, but that's about it. So hearing these speakers really start to generate a true, room filling experience with a very authoritative bottom end that was not there when I first started using them has been quite interesting to me. And very satisfying.
When going from fireplace to closer to the corner, you “loaded” the bass which would explain the bass response increase.
For sure your positioning now is about as optimal as you’re gonna get.
The woofers could be a little stiff after being refoamed.
Do you know if there is any “mileage” since that was done? -
12 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
After 5 days these speakers have really woken up. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that the seller, other then testing them out some after taking care of the surrounds basically let these sit and never really used them much, if at all. When they first arrived they sounded very good, but I was a little disappointed in the bass, which had me tinkering with placement more, and also the crossover controls. But after a couple of days, things really started to improve. Not only was the bass noticeably better but overall separation was also. Just seemed like the proverbial veil had been lifted and what I was finally beginning to hear was what all the accolades I've read about these speakers coming true. Now, after a couple more days, these speakers just sound terrific! Seemingly a different speaker since arriving on Friday. I'm not a big believer in break in, but either I've simply gotten used to what they doing from the beginning, or they simply have gotten better.
Whatever the case, I could not be happier.
I’ve used a subwoofer with all my Allisons since 2001. A lot of guys used the Allison ESW, but it makes an old speaker work harder to produce more bass.
Sub. integration was the best upgrade I had done with these speakers. It was so impactful I had revisited most of my collection, hearing things in the “low band” I had previously missed.
-
3 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
Ah great! Thanks so much for your insight and patience with my questions. I do enjoy experimenting but it's so valuable to me to hear other's opinions who obviously have had a lot of experience with the particular piece of gear that I'm attempting to get just right. You have been a big help, and I'm very appreciative.
As you can see, each speaker in my original configuration is about midway between the side wall and fire place side. The distance from the wall to the fire place on both sides is less then 4 feet, so if I put each speaker 2 1/2 feet from the side wall, they will be much closer to the side of the fire place. Do you think that's the same concern as a wall corner, or I just concentrate on getting it as far away from the real wall as possible. Or, just leave them be between wall and fire place?
Giving up too much by having them on top of the fireplace as pictured.
Given the room constraints you could get them a bit closer to the corner than two and a half and still be fine. I would forget the fireplace as being a concern.
The room is smaller than I first realized, but don’t worry it’s big enough!What’s the depth?
Another way the A1 can shine is on adjacent walls….That potentially could be great in there but requires some creativity especially with the furniture and doorways, etc.
I lived with an adjacent configuration with the A1 for 14 years (a fireplace was also involved.) It was really quite nice!
-
55 minutes ago, samberger0357 said:
Wow that is high praise indeed!
A question on placement if you don’t mind. I have limited space as to where any of my speakers can be placed, especially these which should be kept away from corners. In the picture above they are placed about 10 feet apart. In back of them are curtains and windows. So no hard wall to place them against. The alternative is to place them on each side of the fire place under the end corners against each white pillar. This gives them the advantage of having a more solid back to be against but closes the distance between them. From reading the manual it seems Allison thought you could put the One anywhere even in a different room, pointing away from the listener as long they stay at least 2 1/2 feet from corners and as close to a solid wall as possible. I now have them in the second configuration and they sound fine but I keep thinking it would be better if they were further apart.
Would love to get your thoughts on this and anything else regarding placement and crossover controls settings which I seem to like best in the flat setting.
IMHO….the 2 1/2 from the corner (and a few inches more could be ok) is the better configuration no doubt. The floor/wall corner proximity is the larger consideration
Right now, those curtains are enough of a wall….I would think of them that way and not sweat it.
”Flat” is the way to go on the crossover setting. I would alter that with your tone control when necessary. (If)
One of the hardest things to do with the A1 is to make them sound “bad” no matter how they are positioned.
I had them on adjacent walls in my old house for years and though hardly optimal, they still sounded sweet.
-
13 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
Yes he really did an incredible job. I got lucky on these for sure. As you can see, other then the chip on one of them which I may try to repair, or not, these look incredible. Even the grilles which have a couple of small cracks are still very presentable.
For years I had hoped to find a good condition pair of AR LST's but it just never happened. But these have put that quest pretty much to bed.
Thanks again for all your help and advice here and on AK. Much appreciated.
I can think of a half dozen ways why you now have a superior loudspeaker over either LST. The engineering for superior bass reproduction rests with the A1
-
3 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
Got them! Seller was a terrific fellow. Turns out he's an active buyer and seller of quality vintage gear, as well as a restorer.
He buffed out much of the scuffs/scratches that were evident in his Craigslist listing, so that they look practically new . The grilles are fragile as noted, but they still work fine, and I've decided to keep them on.
The sound is glorious as advertised. Incredible dispersion, clear highs and big fat lows, albeit not bloated at all. And they can play very loud.
Even got the original manual and brochure.
I couldn't be more pleased.
Wow!
Almost shocking how nice he got those looking!
What the seller does also explains why they apparently are “plug and play” so to speak without issue it seems.
There is a big reason also that goes towards that…. Those are the later versions of the A1. Biampable (though unnecessary) and improved crossover switch controls from the first generation. Additionally the outboard connections to the tweeters and midrange drivers have been done away with. (rear spades).
The Allison:One remains one of finest speakers on the planet that makes a piano 🎹 sound like a real one better than almost anything I have ever heard.
If I had not had the rarest opportunity to acquire the IC20, My A1’s would still be here!
-
18 minutes ago, samberger0357 said:
Thanks Bill. While this is the first I've heard of this issue with these speakers(and I've been reading up A LOT on them over the last week) I'll certainly keep it in mind, and will be listening closely for any type of problem when I try them out briefly before buying them tomorrow.
Little has been written about it true….I started with the Allison:One in 1977 and first encountered the issue with one mid in the 80’s.
Around 1998 when I involved myself in the forums I started to encounter a few other guys who had experienced the issue
-
2 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
Well looks like these will be mine after all. Should have them Friday. Quite excited. Will report back.
Congratulations!
You know what you're up against aesthetically.
The biggest concern of mine with the big 3 way Allison's has always been voice coil rubbing on the midrange drivers. Not exactly sure why it happens. The tolerances on those mids and their unique design also has them more vulnerable to this IMHO. (as opposed to conventional cone drivers)
I did find someone who could realign the mids and test them with a signal generator.
At least if you encounter this there are only 2 in each system, so odds are in your favor.
Once you have evaluated the drivers and are running without issues I would suggest continuing a search on Craigs list and other places for a spare three way tweeter and midrange. The market has almost totally dried up so this will be quite the challenge.
Bill
-
5 hours ago, samberger0357 said:
Thanks. Yes I was alerted by another that these have been listed for awhile now. That, the issues you mention, and the sellers non response after a full day to my inquiry, in addition to the long ride to see them has made me decide to pass.
Your response has provided some good info if another pair shows up at some point so thanks for that.
You are quite welcome!
It is rather sad to see very little these days, in the way of really nice Allison….spare drivers or full systems.
I’m full up myself on “inventory”, but it’s a pet peeve of mine to keep looking.
I recently found a pair of speakers in the UK. that bear the Allison name but were never marketed here in the USA. No one left that I know except Tom Tyson perhaps that could shed light on that.
-
If the drivers all work as well as they look you would be in for an audio treat!
There is evidence that a couple of the midrange and tweeters had dented domes that were pulled back out pretty well.
That pair was or still is listed on EBAY, which is where I first saw them. (They’ve been out there for many months)
The only thing I don’t get is why the cabinets are so ratty, especially the one damaged on the corner. I also remember the seller talking about replacing one of the rear terminal screws.
I would not go higher than 500 and see if they can be demoed before you take?
My pair sold for 750 and the cabinets didn’t have a scratch on them. I also gave him a spare, newly refreshed woofer included that I had no use for.
-
On 10/12/2021 at 5:12 AM, ShadowGoat said:
Thanks for the tips. My wife wants me to keep them as well. There’s just these Bozaks I’m looking at… haha
I actually have the t nut and screw, somewhere, and could probably repair it.
The tweeters work. They are the kind with the paper covers, dimpled. The paper was a little torn on one when I got them. I thought they were usually dimpled like that? They’re working ok I guess (who knows about the ferrofluid), but I had to get used to their sound since I was so used to Klipsch. I was like; “Oh, that’s what other tweeters sound like”Thanks again.
As a serious collector, it took years to come up with undimpled/ un damaged domed drivers. This is the remaining one of two I bought years ago. The other went out with my original Allison Ones sold off in 2012.
-
3 hours ago, ShadowGoat said:
Yes, one of the the threads came out with the screw, unfortunately. I had no idea what these are worth since I couldn’t even find a photo of them, let alone a sold listing. I’ve lowered the price and will lower it again, but I’m fine keeping them too. They do sound very nice. I like how the soundstage is vertical/elevated over my stereo - recessed but in a smooth, non-fatiguing way. My Klipsch are more low and in front. Anyway, thanks!
Listening without fatigue is an “Allison Trademark” so to speak!
First off, I would keep them, if I were you….
They’ve got problems, but the good news is only six drivers.
With only 2 tweeters, restoration and maintenance is less daunting then the Allison’s with multiple driver arrays. Usable, viable Allison drivers have never been tougher to come up with than today.
A proper seal of the cabinet is essential to optimum bass response. That’s why the missing midrange hardware is so important. The midrange doesn’t rely on the internal airspace of the cabinet because it’s a pulsating dome and sealed to the outside, but the woofer does.
I would bet the farm that if you take the woofer out of that cabinet and fish around on the bottom, you will find the threaded “T nut” that holds the machine screw for the midrange driver. It may even be stuck on the woofer magnet 🧲 when it pushed out. Plastic wood can restore the area where the T nut goes, or Home Depot actually carries them.
Tweeters still work? Mashed.
If they do, there are little tricks to subtly pull the domes out to be reasonable esthetically. You can pull out gently with a piece of tape, or pierce it with a needle, and pull out gently then seal it with a spot of glue.
-
20 hours ago, ShadowGoat said:
Thanks for the response. I’ve decided to sell these. Would anyone on here be interested?
Best of luck to you. You’re starting price IMHO (Ebay) is High by 500.00.
You can get some tips and advice from here if you’re serious about unloading them…also looks like a missing screw on one midrange. Am I seeing that correctly?
-
59 minutes ago, JeffS said:
If I were shopping for a replacement woofer for my Allison:Four, and I could choose between woofers that were newer and had been mounted and stored forward facing as in the LC models, or woofers that were older and mounted and stored facing upward with deteriorated surrounds, I'd buy the newer woofer. Having said that, I would give preference to a woofer that came from a Four.
You put a fine point on what I called "spider sag" and we should all use caution when using these older drivers with original spiders.
My experience tells me this: I had a pair of Allison:Sevens that I installed new surrounds on about 15 years ago. They came back to me about 6 months ago for a cabinet refresh. I checked the condition of the surrounds and with them showing no signs of deterioration, I connected them to an amplifier rated at 400W/ch into 4 ohms. I took the volume up. No problems, and they sounded great. Now, I wasn't driving them hard enough to make the clip lights flash, nor would I with any 8" woofer.
10 years ago I put new surrounds on my Allison:Fours. I use them with a 150W/ch amplifier with no problems.
If someone using these Allison 8" models follows the placement recommendations, doesn't add any bass boost, and uses a reasonable amplifier (say, 100-150 W/ch), things should be fine. As you've said in the past, if you want deeper bass while using these speakers, add a subwoofer.
I understand now where you’re coming from regarding the “sag”!
An Allison user on another forum had concerns about the midrange sagging out of alignment (age related). He made a project out of flipping all of his 180 degrees to counteract this. I felt personally, it was a case in point of overthinking a potential issue. ….that with normal use they would be just fine. That being said, nothing lasts forever….
With yours I would think similarly, in that the woofers excursion is upward when operating, so sagging shouldn’t be an issue. Rigidity is something else, where by the spider cloth gets weak with age, the woofer is free to travel farther than it’s design was intended, having only the surround to keep it in check.
-
10 hours ago, JeffS said:
The useful spreadsheet that LesE provides nicely outlines the differences among the Allison woofers. Thanks.
Given the information here, if I were trying to find a replacement for an Allison:Four, the only woofer I would avoid from the two-ways is the Allison:Six which has a voice coil Xmax of 0.1625" compared to the 0.25" of the others. I might also give preference to the LC models, whose woofers would have less potential spider sag than the others.
Could you elaborate on what you mean regarding “spider sag”?
I have been a bug on Allison spiders within the woofers for years.
I have a lot of experience, going after aging spiders in these drivers.
For most, the thinking seems to be to just refoam the speaker and you’re good.
That’s ok if a driver is perhaps 15 years old or even more. But if it’s 43 years old, you should think again.The spider can LOOK fine, but they lose compliance over the years, making it easier to bottom out.
The surround and the spider work together to keep the excursion in check.
-
Sure! That’s the predecessor to the AL 130. I’ll post some pics later when I have them handy.
The AL 130 has a 4 driver 3 way configuration with dual push pull woofers and the same basic mids and tweets as in the 130.
Too bad those drivers are pretty mashed in…..typical average condition of these old guys unfortunately.
-
2 hours ago, Aadams said:
“When making minimum power recommendations, I think AR assumed that the serious listener would be in a quiet room, with the speakers and that equalizer controls would be used judiciously. In fact, all decent full- range speakers for the home, sound the same when you listen from abnormal distances or from the next room, or listen through walls. Nuance is gone. The only difference left is loudness per watt. Abnormal listening requires more watts. Another significant variable is the difference in our hearing acuity and musical taste which could lead to overemphasis of certain frequency bands using an equalizer; for example, bass boost that enhances percussive effects can seriously increase wattage peaks but does not increase the actual dynamic range of the recording. I agree more watts are better, but the actual amount needed is not nearly what we frequently imagine.”
Lots of interesting conjecture here, most of which I respectfully part company with
-
On 2/20/2019 at 11:09 AM, mikezohsix said:
Hi Bill -
Think I've contacted you before about your IC20's. The idea of owning something like them has never let go since the day I got my new-to-me A:1's working correctly. Short story on them, they turned up in CL, about 3 hours from my house, but not too far from my dad, so made a trip to pick them up. Got them home, and was very disappointed in the sound, just no life. A friend of mine at work, also active here, Teknofossil, had the schematic. Turned out most of the drivers were not wired correctly, so the "pairs" were fighting each other rather than work together. Fixed the wiring, and love at first listen - they're playing Cat Stevens as I type this!
I retired last week, and am looking for projects. Over the last 18 months or so I collected some A:1 tweeters and was given four mids and some common A:1 to IC20 cross over components (again by Teknofossil - thanks Tom!) with the idea that I'd build "tops" for my A:1's that would mimic the IC20, with a new cross over of course. This would be a quick and reversible path to at least get a feel for whether I'd want to build IC20 cabinets.
So with all that said, would you provide the center to center distance of the MTTM array from you speakers?
This will give me the cabinet dimensions for my "tops", to start my project.
Many thanks,
Mike
16 inches….
-
On 9/26/2021 at 3:25 AM, Giorgio AR said:
Wonderful tale of a story of two generations, nice to see dad Marsi working manually in construction: let's remember the effort of those who built the cities we live in now and the sacrifice made to give a better life to future generations, how much sacrifice and effort they have made our parents.
Frank, from the history of your family I understand why you keep everything you have bought in HiFi in over 50 years of passion: each purchase cost effort and sacrifice (at the time also the objects, in this case HiFi equipment were built to last decades and be easily repaired to work again giving new satisfaction for years): people now quickly replace any item either because it soon becomes "old" or breaks and needs to be replaced or is out of date!
We preserve and appreciate what other people designed and built years and years ago: these objects have exceeded the life of those who built them as a testimony of the goodness of past projects!To top it off my currently running pair of AR3a play with McIntosh Mac4280: 100w X 2 at 4 ohms, AR LSTs are provisionally paired with a 40w x 2 tube amp.
I often change the electronics in rotation, however satisfied with all the combinations, the sound pressures obtained change, the quality and AR sound always remains!Mac4280 & AR3a
Pioneer C21, Nuova Elettronica tube amp. & AR LST
AR speakers: AR10TT MK2 are related to McIntosh Mc2105
Nice! To This day I’ve never had the chance to compare the LST’s to my IC20’s
Thinking of picking up a pair of Allison Ones
in Allison
Posted