mikel1999 Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 hey guys, im building speakers and i have found the my 98lsi mid\tweeter plate a very good match for my speakers. though i feel bad to leave my 98lsi like this after i spent so much time&money on them, so im asking myself if the AR9 tweeters will be good alternative, note that I want to get identical if not better results. im open for suggestions on other tweeters that might exceed the current configuration, with the same sound signeture ofc (the high-mid crossed at 5000hz-5500hz tweeter crossed at 5500hz, so basically looking for tweeter that goes down to 5000hz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 The LS is a tweeter/upper mid range driver using the same magnet, IIRC. It was designed with the tweeter and UMR driver physically close for better SQ (or something along those lines). The 9 tweeter is a fine tweeter with very good dispersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel1999 Posted July 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, DavidR said: The LS is a tweeter/upper mid range driver using the same magnet, IIRC. It was designed with the tweeter and UMR driver physically close for better SQ (or something along those lines). The 9 tweeter is a fine tweeter with very good dispersion. you have any idea who would preform better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 AR presented their dual-dome mid/high as an improvement over separate drivers, but the market didn't agree so much. It looks as if you're trying to develop a 4-way passive system. Since the AR-9 parts are relatively inexpensive, and all of the plans & schematics are readily available, have you considered building a hotrod AR-9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel1999 Posted July 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 i know that it was suppose to be an improvment, though as you said some people dont think that way, to more accurate the majority of the people think the ar9 is better. IMO there is two main reasons, the AR9 looks much better, and the 9LS has kind of boring sound, (i guess due to the mid\tweeter being closer and this way there is more balanced sounding? I consider the 98LSI extrememly balanced) Actually had a chance to get AR90 few days ago but i declined, I find my 98LSI very good sounding speakers but they bore me very fast, and im pretty sure the ar90 will have the same problem. this is one of the reasons i want to replace the mid\tweeter, the sound is not very engaging. pretty sure that what i plan to build will exceed the ar9 by a mile, the mid\high right now sounds MUCH better then my 98LSI. also will probably replace the midbass and add subwoofer... & on top of that turn them both active but this is gonna take time. (using morel drivers btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 I NEVER get bored with my AR90s. Perhaps its the gear driving them. If you can best the AR9 let us know. Few speaker companies have and today you'd have to pay $10,000 to do it. Subwoofer? An AR9 goes lower than most subs; and no distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel1999 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 im not trying to rival the ar9 here, just trying to just make high quality speakers and I "discovered" the AR being good match by a chance. this was morel-based speakers from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 The question begs to be answered; is there a qualifying amplifier behind all of this calamity? Secondly, is the room set-up for proper listening or is this a room with stacks of speakers on top of one and another while sitting on the floor with no real proper listening set-up parameters in place as some non-cognoscenti and self-proclaimed AR speaker lovers do here? FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Interesting animal you are building there, Mike! Keep us abreast of your progress. BTW, regarding getting bored by the sound of the 98SLi, did you ever replace the old capacitors with new polys? When I did so with my AR90's the change was dramatic, in fact a bit too dramatic for my tastes on that upper midrange driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 4 hours ago, mikel1999 said: im not trying to rival the ar9 here, just trying to just make high quality speakers and I "discovered" the AR being good match by a chance. this was morel-based speakers from the start. Your earlier statement would suggest otherwise. You must have some pretty impressive credentials. "pretty sure that what i plan to build will exceed the ar9 by a mile, the mid\high right now sounds MUCH better then my 98LSI. also will probably replace the midbass and add subwoofer... & on top of that turn them both active but this is gonna take time. (using morel drivers btw)" This thread should go to the "mod and tweak" section of the forum. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel1999 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 3 hours ago, frankmarsi said: The question begs to be answered; is there a qualifying amplifier behind all of this calamity? Secondly, is the room set-up for proper listening or is this a room with stacks of speakers on top of one and another while sitting on the floor with no real proper listening set-up parameters in place as some non-cognoscenti and self-proclaimed AR speaker lovers do here? FM The current amp is Harman citation 16A and citation 11 pre, also got onkyo integra, which is less powerful but have fun warm sound (120W into 4ohm). I did my best to make sure the acoustics of the room are good, and made some custom stands for the AR98lsi, not something special but does the work, i also tried them in a bigger room (my listening room is small) but it made no change. 3 hours ago, AR surround said: Interesting animal you are building there, Mike! Keep us abreast of your progress. BTW, regarding getting bored by the sound of the 98SLi, did you ever replace the old capacitors with new polys? When I did so with my AR90's the change was dramatic, in fact a bit too dramatic for my tastes on that upper midrange driver. thanks, i will as for the crossover i did change the capacitors with some Jentzen caps and non-polarized type at higher values, cant comment on a change because i did it before i even heard them (long story why) what do you mean too dramatic? 1 hour ago, RoyC said: Your earlier statement would suggest otherwise. You must have some pretty impressive credentials. "pretty sure that what i plan to build will exceed the ar9 by a mile, the mid\high right now sounds MUCH better then my 98LSI. also will probably replace the midbass and add subwoofer... & on top of that turn them both active but this is gonna take time. (using morel drivers btw)" This thread should go to the "mod and tweak" section of the forum. Roy not a statement, an opinion\guess, I never hard the ar9. im not tweaking anything, this is a DIY project opened the thread to know if i got something i could replace the current mid\tweeter plate with, thats all. btw Im hoping to get a listening session with the AR90 anyway, i dont think there is another ar90 (if any ar9\9ls) speakers in my country so this is is pretty rare opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hey, mikel1999 enjoy yourself and let us know your results. Maurise would've loved my sound-system! Oh, sure, I have it on 45RPM vinyl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 6 hours ago, mikel1999 said: ...as for the crossover i did change the capacitors with some Jentzen caps and non-polarized type at higher values, cant comment on a change because i did it before i even heard them (long story why) what do you mean too dramatic?... Regarding "Too dramatic:" I had some problems with the AR90 UMR being too "hot," "raspy," "bright" or whatever you'd like to call it using Solen and then Jantzen poly caps. I switched to Mundorf E-Caps which are more compatible to my ears with that particular driver. Ditto with my AR9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel1999 Posted July 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 hours ago, AR surround said: Regarding "Too dramatic:" I had some problems with the AR90 UMR being too "hot," "raspy," "bright" or whatever you'd like to call it using Solen and then Jantzen poly caps. I switched to Mundorf E-Caps which are more compatible to my ears with that particular driver. Ditto with my AR9. you might want to try some old Russian capacitors, the big ones, like this: (what i got) http://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-30uF-160V-10-USSR-MBGO-2-Russian-PIO-Capacitors-Now-Old-Stock-/201975868772?hash=item2f06b32d64:g:n8oAAOSwHLNZW5To I compared between the russian and mundorf mcap on the mid, the mcap gave more detailed crisp dynamic sound, but suffered the same problem as you describe i guess. the russian is more laid back but felt like a better match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 8 hours ago, mikel1999 said: you might want to try some old Russian capacitors, the big ones, like this: (what i got) http://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-30uF-160V-10-USSR-MBGO-2-Russian-PIO-Capacitors-Now-Old-Stock-/201975868772?hash=item2f06b32d64:g:n8oAAOSwHLNZW5To I compared between the russian and mundorf mcap on the mid, the mcap gave more detailed crisp dynamic sound, but suffered the same problem as you describe i guess. the russian is more laid back but felt like a better match. Thanks for the advice Mikel and I'm glad to see some correlation with my experiences once again. Others have recommended the Russian caps as well. But I have all my speakers sounding exactly the way I want with the NPE E-Caps (plus Dayton F&F bypasses) on the UMR so I am done messing with them. I put together a chart summarizing my experience with the various caps on the AR90 UMR along with a few followups on adding F&F bypass caps. If you are interested, the link is here: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/9406-ar90-crossover-recapping-taming-the-umr/ Aside: I wonder what fancy chemicals are inside those old Russian caps. PCBs, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel1999 Posted August 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 okay now my project really became tweaking Little update ( i guess im gonna do it from time to time) placed Morel MDT32 as a rear tweeters, added 2uf cap to cross it at 10Khz and as for now it sounds amazing, ofc I might find some bad stuff but as for now im really surprised it worked well. if you guys have any tips for rear tweeters i would love to hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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