refried Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 I picked up a free pair of 5's the other day and was wondering if anyone could date them by serial number? They appear to be early with numbers 20604 and 20608, They were hidden in a nicely built cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Wow, having been in those cabinets, those are probably really nice. Photos please once you pull them out! Others on here should have an idea on the dating better than I. Roger likes the fives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 very nice cabinets but the contents are beautiful! unfinished pine to boot, wow. more pics please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 hoping there is a shelf under the cutout and those are not just doinking around if the cabs are moved, kind of like my propane tank does under my grill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted May 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 From what I can see they may be screwed to the base then slipped thru the bottom of the cabinet and a second brace inside. they don't move around at all so I'm assuming they are screwed in on the bottom because there's nothing on top and the second brace doesn't touch the AR-5's. I'll take them apart in a few days and see what they look like. I thought all 5's had foam surrounds but these don't look like they've ever been apart and I don't think they'd last 45+ years.. BTW they sound great. Next to a DQ-20 for size reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Yep, those could turn out to be real beauties, and free is always good! The unfinished pine version were often used in this fashion - - inside another cabinet - - so it just might be that yours are almost like new. I am wondering if the original grille cloths are attached to the cabinet fronts or whether they were removed prior to installing in the larger cabinet. You are correct that all AR-5's had foam woofers (the first foams used by AR, I believe). Someone here may be able to estimate the date of production by the serial numbers, but another reliable method that often works is to inspect the back of the drivers which will often have a date code on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted May 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 The grill cloth is still on them but I couldn't tell if the badge was still there (I'm sure it is). I've heard the very first 5's had cloth surrounds, I don't know if that's true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 I really like your cat refried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted May 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 11 minutes ago, stupidhead said: I really like your cat refried. Girlfriends Grandmother carved it, I thought it was a good place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 There may have been some early AR-5 woofers with some non-typical features (domed dust cap?), but as this 1971 brochure page suggests, the AR-5 was designed to employ urethane surrounds. (sorry, but the site is not allowing me to upload a simple jpeg file at this time...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I'm assuming these are pre '69, I've seen 1969 3A's with a 3xxxx serial number, these are 20604 and 8. 3's and 5's serial numbers may have no relation though. I'll see when I pull them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Early 70's -- late 1971 date would be my best guess. No cloth surrounds on the AR-5's. Refoam the woofers, recap the crossovers and clean the pots or replace with L-pads and you should have a nice set of speakers. Since they are unfinished pine protected in another enclosure they are probably in very nice shape except as you mentioned mounting holes in the bottoms. Hard to tell by your photos but hopefully they didn't chop the bottom off the cabs. They look great inside their cocoons! I did run a pair of 5's for awhile without refoaming but I wouldn't drive them very hard. If you pinch the foam I think you will find they are rather gooey even if they are intact. Below is a June 1972 woofer from an unfinished pine set that was still intact in 2014 but has since been refoamed. Congrats and welcome aboard the AR Express ... Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Collecting and restoring these vintage AR speakers, the thing that impresses me the most is when I find unmolested, completely original examples. These 5's appear to be just that. The surround question is the big mystery here. Sounding excellent they may have been reformed along the way. Then again refried, you possibly may be correct and have something special with cloth surrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Here's the little blip I tried to attach earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 On 5/30/2016 at 3:41 PM, refried said: I picked up a free pair of 5's the other day and was wondering if anyone could date them by serial number? They appear to be early with numbers 20604 and 20608, They were hidden in a nicely built cabinets. According to warranty and production records, which are sketchy, AR was building 604 AR-5s/mo during the spring of 1972, and in July, 1972, AR-5 S/N 24408 was manufactured. At the production rate (which varied from "heavy" in the fall and winter to "light" in the summer) averaging 600 units/month, AR-5 S/N 20604 and 20608 would have been manufactured somewhere around January 1972. AR continued to manufacture the AR-5 well into the mid-1970s with serial numbers beyond 45000, but this was somewhat less than half the number of AR-3a sold. If a potential customer had enough money to spend on the AR-5 at around $175, an additional $75 could be spent to move up to the significantly more powerful AR-3a at $250; thus partly accounting for the lower sales of the AR-5, not to mention the emergence of the top-selling Advent with better bass response, nearly equal to the AR-3a. The less-accurate Advent (bright and somewhat peaky midrange/treble) with powerful bass very nearly as good as an AR-3 or AR-3a, costing about the same as an AR-2ax and significantly than the AR-5, put a huge hurting on the AR-5 sales . Ironically, the AR-5 had a slightly better overall acoustical balance than the more potent AR-3a. AR continued to manufacture loudspeakers throughout the slow season rather than lay off workers. AR actually had very few layoffs ever during the 1954-1970 period. Production-line workers were retained in the slow months and were put to work painting the factory, rebuilding production facilities and so forth. This was part of AR's culture of taking care of its workers. AR also had a higher pay scale than most competitive plants, and this enabled the company to hire the best available trained workers. After aerospace conglomerate Teledyne bought (1967) AR -- and beyond the 5-year stabilization period after purchase -- things began to change at AR. By the way, the earliest AR-5 woofer was special to this speaker and also the first (October 1968) to utilize urethane-polymer "foam" surround material in conjunction with a special asphalt-paper cone material. This was an early AR-5 woofer -- not the very earliest -- characterized by the treated-cloth dust cap. This is the earliest-type AR-5 with the vertically aligned midrange and tweeter, later changed to the staggered arrangement because of production problems with the cabinet. If one is found like this (this was the prototype with the top plates unpainted), it is a fairly rare version. Later version of the AR-5 showing the "generic" 10-inch woofer (this one with the yoke-type Alnico magnet) and the staggered-midrange-tweeter arrangement. After 1973, the AR-5 went to the ferrite-magnet 10-inch woofer and back-wired drivers, Velcro grill attachment and new-style crossover. AR-5 "file" photo from 1968. A great ad on the early AR-5! Note this earliest woofer and the midrange-tweeter arrangement. Note how close the midrange is to the cabinet side, causing some manufacturing issues and ultimately resulting in the AR-3a-type staggered arrangement. Also, the staggered arrangement more nearly resembled the appearance of the AR-3a. The flush-in-the-ground woofer-testing method was established years ago and widely used by AR with the original AR-1. This method gave an exact solid angle of 180 degrees (2-Pi steradians) facing into pure anechoic half space. This difficult and cumbersome test method is still considered to be the best and most-accurate method to measure a direct-radiator woofer's low-frequency system. Close-miking comes close, as do various computer-derived methods, but actual physical measurement techniques are always based on pure anechoic measurements. --Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted June 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Great info Tom thanks. I haven't had a chance to open these up yet (lots of screws) but have been listening to them quite a bit and they sound very nice though I think they could benefit from a recap (My Dahlquists are sounding much brighter). Is it worth it to go with Solen caps or are Parts Express good enough? I've never had any problems with PE and would have no problem using their parts again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Measure the existing caps first. I recently measured several AR-3 caps -- much older -- and they were not really out of spec. The spec for this 2-part AR ICC capacitor (and practically all crossover capacitors) is around 10-15%, and this 53-year-old AR-3 combined-value capacitor fell inside that value for this one and the same for about six or seven others that I just measured. Some caps get wildly out of spec, so each capacitor should be measured. Some of the AR Callins (and even Spraque) capacitors fall out of spec over time. So, you should disconnect (unsolder) the capacitors from the crossover network and check them individually first before changing components. PE sells a decent capacitor meter; I checked mine with Hewlett-Packard test gear, but most testers work okay for this level of measurement. It certainly won't hurt to put in new capacitors, but it may not be necessary. You don't need high-precision, high-dollar capacitors. Even with the most-expensive capacitors you can buy, you will never get a bright, forward sound like the Dahlquist speaker, and you may hear no difference whatsoever in the AR-5 if the current crossover is working properly. You will almost surely need to remove and clean the level controls, and that will make the biggest difference. You will likely find that you will never want to run the level controls "wide open," as the recommended "dot" settings usually give the best or most-natural sound with possibly the treble control advanced higher than the mid position. If everything is working properly, you will find that the AR-5 is significantly more natural-sounding than even the Dahlquist, but it will lose in the brightness category. --Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted June 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Thanks again Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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