AR 58bx, AR 91 how they compare to AR3a or AR 11

[mk101]

Anyone had a chance to listen to AR 58bx, or AR 91, how do they compare to AR 3a or AR 11 sound wise. I have AR 11 for many years, purchased new, the best sounding speaker for the money. Nothing can compare unless you ready to spend $1000’s more.

I want to set up a home theater and prefer another pair of AR11 but they are hard to find.

Looking at photos of AR 58bx they look like a lower quality speaker.

The AR 91 photo looks better but again never listened to it.

[ligs]

I had both AR 3a and AR11. My personal preference was also AR 11. I even replaced the 3a tweeter with 11 tweeter(with appropriate crossover changes). To me AR 11 had the kind of midrange to treble balance and also a level of transparency pleasing to my ears! At one time I had also a pair of dealer's AR11 demos with a clear plastic window showing the movement of the woofer inside.

[HarryM]

I have 91's and 3a's.The 3a's are not dialed in a 100% yet but with the way they are now,at lower volumes the 91's seem to have more deep bass and the 3a's are more mid range.The 3a's seem to be a little easier load on my amp then the 91's.I personally think both pairs sound much better at mid volume then at lower volumes but I do prefer my music a little louder then most.LOL.Both are great sounding speakers but I've never used them in a theatre set up.

[mk101]

I have 91's and 3a's.The 3a's are not dialed in a 100% yet but with the way they are now,at lower volumes the 91's seem to have more deep bass and the 3a's are more mid range.The 3a's seem to be a little easier load on my amp then the 91's.I personally think both pairs sound much better at mid volume then at lower volumes but I do prefer my music a little louder then most.LOL.Both are great sounding speakers but I've never used them in a theatre set up.

Thanks for the info.

[ted99]

No one has commented on the 58BX. I have just sold pairs of AR3a, AR2ax and AR58BX, which I owned from new. The bass from the AR3a and AR58BX was the same--should be as it's essentially the same bass driver and same cabinet, except that 58BX uses particle board where 3a is real plywood. I say the same bass driver with the caveat that the 58BX used the Tonegin that AR sold as a replacement for the 3a and it had a slightly stiffer response. I couldn't hear any bass difference. However, the 58BX used modern-style mid drivers and it had a much more pronounced imaging than the 3a. I had to toe in the 58BX, where the 3a could be placed square to the listening position and did not have a pronounced sweet spot, as did the 58BX

[mk101]

No one has commented on the 58BX. I have just sold pairs of AR3a, AR2ax and AR58BX, which I owned from new. The bass from the AR3a and AR58BX was the same--should be as it's essentially the same bass driver and same cabinet, except that 58BX uses particle board where 3a is real plywood. I say the same bass driver with the caveat that the 58BX used the Tonegin that AR sold as a replacement for the 3a and it had a slightly stiffer response. I couldn't hear any bass difference. However, the 58BX used modern-style mid drivers and it had a much more pronounced imaging than the 3a. I had to toe in the 58BX, where the 3a could be placed square to the listening position and did not have a pronounced sweet spot, as did the 58BX

Thanks for the info, by the way, what did you replace the ARs with?

[JKent]

I have the 3a (sort of) and the 91. For HT I think the 91 or some other more "modern" speaker would be a good idea. The old AR 3a tweeters are aging and probably not up to the task of reproducing Star Wars or the like at theater-level volume. The 91 has fluid-cooled tweeters AND mids.

My modified 3a's would probably be OK because they have Hi-Vi tweeters and AR-11 mids (and AR-3 woofers) but I'd be nervous about what HT might do to 50-year-old tweeters.

Just a thought.

Kent

[ted99]

Thanks for the info, by the way, what did you replace the ARs with?

I have a Home Theater and they have been replaced with Martin-Logans in front-a matched set of R C L. I was using the 58BX as rear surrounds, but decided that was overkill and replaced them with in-wall speakers. After advertising the 58BX for a number of weeks on e-bay, I pulled the 12" drivers out and sold them for the same price I was asking for the whole speakers. So now, I have 2 like-new AR 58BX enclosures with the mid/hi speakers. I'm using them as stands for my L/R speakers behind the screen to get them at the same height as the center. They are so heavy that I don't think anyone would pay for them to be shipped. May put them on Craig's list for local pickup (Houston).

[Steve F]

This topic has already been covered at great length and with excellent historical detail here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6137

The 58BX was a lower-quality AR speaker, and should not in any way be considered to be in the same class or category as the AR-3-3a-11-91-58s-78LS models.

As I said in that thread back in January 2011:

"Quite honestly, the 58B, BX, and BXi (the 4" mid models) didn't interest me all that much, as they were clearly indicative of a company that had lost its edge and was just filling market price points with arbitrary models."

The only cone-midrange AR 12" 3-way speaker that could be considered to be a "no-compromise" effort was the Connoiseur 50 (and 50t).

Steve F.

[mk101]

Thanks for all the info. I am learning that for music the AR are probably the best, but not for HT. Not sure about that; sound is sound, and you never know the frequencies of the soundtrack and therefore my opinion; all speakers must be the same in a HT setting to be able to reproduce the same sound quality. I already had one midrange on my AR 11 go dead and replaced (not sure why the speaker shop said the wires go bad after so many years). Anyway I could not find AR 11 for sale in the last 3 month, But I got a pair of AR 10 Pi. My understanding its the same as the 11 with better bass reproduction, crossovers and electronics.....and if i remember correctly it use to be the Reference speaker for Stereo Review to test all other speakers. I listened to it and it sure sound like the AR 11 with deeper bass. Now playing music with 2 ar 11 and 2 ar 10 pi simultaneously I get a real live performance reproduction. I am using my 30+ years Pioneer 3900 receiver that I use as a power amp with "Honest" 125 watts per channel and since the AR's are at 4 ohm I get over 150 watts per channel. Cant wait to see what it will sound with two 200 + 200 amplifiers I plan to hook up at the HT setting..... I better start looking for spare ar 11 and AR 10 midrange speakers.

[michiganpat]

imho a good speaker is a good speaker, and if it sounds good with music, it'll do good with home theater.

actually now, it's easier to do home theater with vintage speakers, as newer flat screen TV's don't need shielded speakers, like CRT's do.

for a center channel to use with your 10pi and 11's, I'd try find an orphan 11, or if you need something smaller, I'd look for a pair of AR18's, the smallest speaker in the ADD lineup, and use one of them.

[JKent]

Thanks for all the info. I am learning that for music the AR are probably the best, but not for HT. Not sure about that; sound is sound, and you never know the frequencies of the soundtrack and therefore my opinion; all speakers must be the same in a HT setting to be able to reproduce the same sound quality. I already had one midrange on my AR 11 go dead and replaced (not sure why the speaker shop said the wires go bad after so many years). Anyway I could not find AR 11 for sale in the last 3 month, But I got a pair of AR 10 Pi. My understanding its the same as the 11 with better bass reproduction, crossovers and electronics.....and if i remember correctly it use to be the Reference speaker for Stereo Review to test all other speakers. I listened to it and it sure sound like the AR 11 with deeper bass. Now playing music with 2 ar 11 and 2 ar 10 pi simultaneously I get a real live performance reproduction. I am using my 30+ years Pioneer 3900 receiver that I use as a power amp with "Honest" 125 watts per channel and since the AR's are at 4 ohm I get over 150 watts per channel. Cant wait to see what it will sound with two 200 + 200 amplifiers I plan to hook up at the HT setting..... I better start looking for spare ar 11 and AR 10 midrange speakers.

I disagree on a couple of these points:

• I don't believe all of the speakers in HT must match. The rear and side speakers are often producing ambient sound and not the full frequency range. The fronts should be your best speakers, but the rest can be smaller.
  
• Time to find a new repair shop. "The wires go bad after so many years." Seriously???? And what was it replaced with? If not an original AR-11 mid it's not going to be right.
  

However, your 10pi/11 setup sounds great, I'm sure!

My only caution about classic speakers in HT setups regarded the use of first-generation speakers like the AR-3, 3a, 2ax etc. that lacked ferrofluid cooling. If you are a fan of loud, blockbuster movies those speakers "may" get fried.

For your center channel there are lots of choices IMHO. The center is primarily for dialog, so you need excellent midrange reproduction. The bass will be handled by your big front speakers and/or a sub, so you don't need a center channel with a big 12" woofer.

Kent