ironlake Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I got a new tweeter control from vintage ar and I connected the wires the same way as the old pot, but now it is wired out of phase with the other ar 4x. also when you turn the pot to min it is at max and vice versa. Do I just need to change the two outside wires of the pot around. also did that change the phase of the tweeter too? anyway right now I just connect the wires to that speaker in reverse - to plus and + to minus and all sounds fine. and I turn the pot to min to get max out of the tweeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Too bad. The vintage_AR "pot" is this PE L-pad http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-248 at about triple the price. Anyway, he should have provided detailed instructions.Take a look at Post #28 and subsequent here: http://www.classicsp...opic=7358&st=20Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I also restored my AR4x's replacing the pots with PE L-Pads and PE phenolic ring tweeters. I did as all have said here - wired the tweeter in reverse polarilty to the woofer - ie + to - on the tweeter (as in the stock config.) Then I wired the L-pads as all have said here and, as you, Ironlake, they work the opp. of the original pots - clockkwise to decease and counter-clockwise to increase. They sound just fine. I say its just the internals of the pot and l-pad that are reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlake Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 ok, so if the pot reverses the polarity on the woofer does it do it on the tweeter too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 ok, so if the pot reverses the polarity on the woofer does it do it on the tweeter too?The pot does not reverse polarity. Regardless of the desired polarity connections at the tweeter (or woofer), the new l-pads can be wired to rotate in the correct direction.-The "common" level control terminal of the original pot is labled #2. Your corresponding l-pad terminal is #1. This wire connects a cabinet input terminal directly to the l-pad (#1) as well as the driver (*either* + or -, based on the desired polarity). In most speakers the cabinet terminal is the negative side, but in many early AR models it is the positive side.-The *input* terminal of the original pot is #1, which corresponds to the new l-pad's #3 terminal. The signal enters the control here and emerges from the center level control terminal to travel to the driver. This center "output" terminal is "B" of the original pot or #2 of the l-pad.-You should have 2 wires connected to #1, one wire to #2, and one wire to #3 of your new l-pads.Simply put, you guys have the wiring to #3 and #1 l-pad terminals reversed. Once you get that right, your "increase" and "decrease" direction will be correct. You can then do anything you want to with the polarity at the driver terminals...it will not affect the level controls' roatation characteristics.The 4x crossover wire colors varied, and can be confusing. Not all 4x crossovers are like the schematic in the Library.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlake Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 check out if I have this right, do I just reverse the two outside terminals and all will be normal. I assume that the center terminal is the center one on the new pot corresponding to the terminal in the very center of the original pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 check out if I have this right, do I just reverse the two outside terminals and all will be normal. I assume that the center terminal is the center one on the new pot corresponding to the terminal in the very center of the original pot.Yes, the center terminals are the only ones that serve the same function. If you reverse the outside terminals, the rotation will be correct.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 As I wrote in Post#2 above, look at this thread, Post #29: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7358&st=20There's even a photo from RoyKent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I now understand that our wiring to L-pad terminals 1 and 3 is reversed. The source of my error is not the identification of which L-pad terminal corresponds to which pot terminal but rather the following: the schematic in the library shows the positive wire going from cabinet terminal 2 to the cap and then to pot terminal 2. Also, the same is shown in the photo in post 7 at this thread: http://www.classicsp...wtopic=5784&st. The library schematic and that photo also show the second wire from pot terminal 2 to the tweeter (going to the tweeter neg. (reversed polarity). Also, in the schematic and the photo the cabinet neg. wire (from cabinet post 1) goes to pot terminal 1. Also the schematic shows pot term. B as the return (neg) from the tweeter's pos. term (thus reverse polarity for the tweeter) Are the the schematic and the photo wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Are the the schematic and the photo wrong?No, they are correct....The schematic and photo show only pot terminals. The #2 pot terminal or the #1 l-pad terminal are the terminals required to be connected to two wires...one from the cabinet terminal (in the case of the 4x it happens to be on the #2 cabinet terminal/positive side of the circuit), and one heading up to the tweeter (in the case of 4x it goes to the negative side of the tweeter)...to provide the appropriate rotatation characteristics. This is the only determining factor for the rotation issue. Polarity connections are an independent issue.The #1 (negative) cabinet terminal of the 4x happens to go to the input side of the level control (#1 of the pot or #3 of the l-pad) through the series resistance of the control and up to the positive (yellow dot) side of the tweeter.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Now I am totally confused. I'm not concerned with polarity. The schematic shows the pos. wire going to pot term. 2 and then to the tweeter. You say above that pot terminal 1 is the pos. input. I would think that difference would affect all the rest of the cross-over wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Now I am totally confused. I'm not concerned with polarity. The schematic shows the pos. wire going to pot term. 2 and then to the tweeter. You say above that pot terminal 1 is the pos. input.Hi thereI am certain that Larry will email you a copy of his wiring schematic that he normally provides with the, "POTS", upon your request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Now I am totally confused. I'm not concerned with polarity. The schematic shows the pos. wire going to pot term. 2 and then to the tweeter. You say above that pot terminal 1 is the pos. input. I would think that difference would affect all the rest of the cross-over wiring.I didn't say it was the + input...I said it is the "input" of the control! In the case of the 4x it originates at the negative cabinet terminal and ends (after going through the control) at the positive side of the tweeter.See attached: The schematic with notes, as well as a completed crossover (with original pot). The yellow numbers in the crossover photo indicate the corresponding l-pad terminal numbers. They are not the pot terminal numbers!(I agree, Vern, Larry's kits provide pre-wiring and excellent instructions.)Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I got my L-pad from PE. Using the library schematic and the posts here at CSP as to which pot terminals correspond to which L-pad terminals I got the same result as Ironlake - the rotation of the l-pad is in reverse to the pots as far as "increase" or "decrease". But, it really doesnt matter, as I found the L-pad position for the sound I want and I plan to leave it set there. However, if my reading of the schematic as to which cabinet and pot term. is for the pos. wire is wrong then my tweeters are not wired in reverse polarity. I'll look over all of this tomorrow but right now I don't think I'll take my cross-overs apart. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I got my L-pad from PE. Using the library schematic and the posts here at CSP as to which pot terminals correspond to which L-pad terminals I got the same result as Ironlake - the rotation of the l-pad is in reverse to the pots as far as "increase" or "decrease". But, it really doesnt matter, as I found the L-pad position for the sound I want and I plan to leave it set there. However, if my reading of the schematic as to which cabinet and pot term. is for the pos. wire is wrong then my tweeters are not wired in reverse polarity. I'll look over all of this tomorrow but right now I don't think I'll take my cross-overs apart. Thanks all.Maybe the illustrations above will help you understand it better...I think we posted responses at the same time. The forum posts you referred to, as well as the schematic provided, are correct.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I just looked at my notes of what I did rather than open up the speakers. I have my l-pad wired as you say it should be Roy. (per the diagram and photo in your response). I think the reason for the reversed rotation is the PE L-pad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I just looked at my notes of what I did rather than open up the speakers. I have my l-pad wired as you say it should be Roy. (per the diagram and photo in your response). I think the reason for the reversed rotation is the PE L-pad .The PE L-pads are not the problem. I use them all the time...just restored a pair of AR-3's with them. Send me a PM or post a photo of your crossover.You have some wires crossed. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I do appreciate your time, advice, assistance and patience Roy. I took some photos but I don't have the cable to download them to my computer at this, my vacation house. I will do it during the week at my office. However the PE instructions for their L-pad wiring are the reverse of what you specify. PE says the cabinet neg wire goes to L-pad terminal 1, then a second wire from terminal 1 to the tweeter and the cabinet positive wire to L-pad term. 3. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-250 I wired the L-pad as you specified - the cabinet pos. wire from the 20uf cap to L-pad terminal 1 and the cabinet neg. to L-pad term 3. Should I re-do the wiring as the PE instructions say? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 These are the instructions I received from Vintage AR. Very clear. Wire your L-pad accordingly and all will be well.KentVintage AR pot replacement.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryM Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I wired the new pots in my 4x's as per Roy's picture and all is good.It works the right way.Some times it's good to not know enough to over think things.LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I wired the L-pad as you specified - the cabinet pos. wire from the 20uf cap to L-pad terminal 1 and the cabinet neg. to L-pad term 3. Should I re-do the wiring as the PE instructions say? Thank you.Forget about the PE instructions...Look at the photos and schematic above, and wire your crossovers exactly as it is shown. You have not done this.What you have described above is correct. What is likely incorrect is the l-pad terminal you chose to share the cabinet input wire with a wire connected to the tweeter...which should be the #1 terminal! I'm willing to bet you have these 2 wires connected to the #3 terminal instead of to #1. (I assume you are aware there are numbers stamped on each l-pad terminal? The #1 terminal is the one on the far right when looking at the back of the L-pad, and it is longer than the rest because there are usually 2 wires connected to it).Actually the only difference between our wiring and the PE instructions is we are connecting the + cabinet input instead of the - cabinet input to L-pad terminal #1. We are not, however, completely reversing the PE instructions! This L-pad terminal (#1) is STILL the "common" terminal sharing 2 wires connected to a cabinet input and the tweeter (-)!This is just a matter of your having chosen the wrong side of the L-pad as the input side of the control.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I checked again and, yes, I had wired mine as specified, two wires (the pos.) on the L-pad #1 tab and the other cabinet wire to the #3 term. Next weekend when I'm at the speakers I will reverse the wires and let you know what happens. I'm sure that reversing the wires will be the solution. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I checked again and, yes, I had wired mine as specified, two wires (the pos.) on the L-pad #1 tab and the other cabinet wire to the #3 term. Next weekend when I'm at the speakers I will reverse the wires and let you know what happens. I'm sure that reversing the wires will be the solution. Thanks again.You should post a photo of your crossover before you start disconnecting things. If you had wired it "as specified" it would be working correctly now. You are obviously missing something if your controls are working in the wrong direction. Send me a PM if you would like to resolve this offline. It would be nice to know exactly what you did, or did not do, after this lengthy discussion.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb8000 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I spoke to an electronics technician at Parts Express today. They are aware that the wiring diagram for their L-pad is the the reverse of what is specified here at CSP. They say they changed the polarity of their L-pad a couple years ago. (Theirs used to be the same as that being shown at CSP)They say that if you wire their L-pad as specified here at CSP the knob will rotate in reverse of the way its supposed to (as mine does). But then if you intend to keep a set position who cares which way it rotates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I spoke to an electronics technician at Parts Express today. They are aware that the wiring diagram for their L-pad is the the reverse of what is specified here at CSP. They say they changed the polarity of their L-pad a couple years ago. (Theirs used to be the same as that being shown at CSP)They say that if you wire their L-pad as specified here at CSP the knob will rotate in reverse of the way its supposed to (as mine does). But then if you intend to keep a set position who cares which way it rotates.I'm not buying it....The Parts Express L-pad is a standard part. It is nothing out of the ordinary, nor is PE's wiring diagram relevant to the issue at hand.The PE L-pad: http://www.parts-exp...tnumber=260-248The instructions on this PE page are standard L-pad instructions for ALL l-pads...not just PE L-pads! There is nothing different, including direction of rotation, between these and all others I use on a regular basis, They are the same as shown in all CSP photos, as well as those I have used from Madisound and Erse. Why is it that others, including myself, are not experiencing the same issue as you?I personally do not care which way your controls rotate, but others reading this thread should not be misled by your conclusions.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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