AR 3 cosmetic restoration questions

[jag]

I'm a proud owner of several pairs of AR speakers, including some AR 3's that need some minor cosmetic work. I've read through the AR-3a restoration page, which is great but has little on cosmetics, and the KLH-8 restoration page which is also great but assumes you're starting from pretty bad condition.

These speakers are veneered and stamped "oiled walnut" on the back, and are in excellent electrical condition and pretty good cosmetic condition but have some scratches and spots of water damage. My first question is what's the best way to recondition the cabinet without any stripping or refinishing. I want to leave the original finish. Is there an "oiled walnut" product available that would smooth out the color variations?

My second question is how to remove stains in the grill cloth. Has anyone found a way to remove spots or areas of discoloration?

My final question is whether it is possible to get the pots out for cleaning without taking apart the whole speaker. Based on the AR-3a restoration page my guess is that the only way to access the pots is to do a full disassembly (removing drivers and stuffing). Which seems like too much work since the drivers all seem to be fine.

Thanks for the great web-site; more questions to come!

[JKent]

Hi Jag and welcome to CSP!

Use Howard Restor-a-Finish. It comes in shades of walnut. Wipe on, wipe off. Easy. Any more stubborn scratches or stains can be tackled with R-a-F but using very fine steel wool. After the R-a-F finish you can use Watco Danish Oil (also available in different shades of walnut) and finally, wax with Howard Feed-n-Wax. The Danish Oil is optional but recommended.

What grille cloth do you have? If it's linen, new linen described in the Restoration Guide is really nice. Some people have had some success cleaning with Oxy-Clean.

The pots must be removed to clean, which means opening up the box, removing the woofer & fiberglass. You may be able to revive them by turning back&forth several times, to sort of scrape the contacts clean. I understand not wanting to tear into them. After the twist therapy you may be able to find a good spot or two.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Kent

[DON]

I'm a proud owner of several pairs of AR speakers, including some AR 3's that need some minor cosmetic work. I've read through the AR-3a restoration page, which is great but has little on cosmetics, and the KLH-8 restoration page which is also great but assumes you're starting from pretty bad condition.

These speakers are veneered and stamped "oiled walnut" on the back, and are in excellent electrical condition and pretty good cosmetic condition but have some scratches and spots of water damage. My first question is what's the best way to recondition the cabinet without any stripping or refinishing. I want to leave the original finish. Is there an "oiled walnut" product available that would smooth out the color variations?

My second question is how to remove stains in the grill cloth. Has anyone found a way to remove spots or areas of discoloration?

My final question is whether it is possible to get the pots out for cleaning without taking apart the whole speaker. Based on the AR-3a restoration page my guess is that the only way to access the pots is to do a full disassembly (removing drivers and stuffing). Which seems like too much work since the drivers all seem to be fine.

Thanks for the great web-site; more questions to come!

Hi and welcome to the forum. I have used "Howards Restora Finish" on walnut finished Advents with good results. It will remove very minor scratches when put on with steel wool. I have also used it to remove some water stains. The deeper scratches will be less visible but will still be there. I have had good results removing some deep scratches and dents by placing a wet cloth over the scratch/dent and using a hot household iron over the cloth. The steam produced doing this will swell the wood slightly and if the wood fibers have not been crushed the dent or scratch should disappear. It may take several tries but it will work. I never sand any of my vintage speakers. I prefer to live with a little wear and tear. Some stains like ink are permanent and can only be removed by sanding and maybe not even then. Several members will be along shortly with helpful advice.

Kent replied while I was pecking out my reply and I repeated some of his advice :D

[jag]

Wow, thanks for the speedy replies! I guess I should have started by asking what the original finish that they call "oiled walnut" is - I'm guessing a walnut stain linseed oil finish?

I'm not going to sand them, but I am surprised how thick the veneer is. Not paper-thin like they sell these days.

I've never heard of Howard's, but looked it up online and it says it comes in Walnut and Dark Walnut. I'll pick some up this weekend. Which is a better match for AR's?

Too bad about accessing the pots, but I'm not surprised. Frustrating they didn't screw the panel on from the outside. I'll try moving it around as you suggested.

The grill cloth is pretty heavy and kind of plastic-ey. I wouldn't describe it as linen. I may be able to touch it up with soap and water, but didn't want to try anthing that's known to cause problems.

Thanks, and any more advice welcomed.

[JKent]

Yes--the oiled finish is BOILED linseed oil. It was not stained--just its natural color. AR and KLH used to recommend re-applying it periodically and you "could" do that but Watco Oil is a better product (maybe not available in the 50s).

Yes, those old veneers are MUCH thicker than the new stuff, but one goof and... disaster.

Howard products are available online and also in eithe Home Despot or Lowes (forget which), where they also have Watco Danish oil. Better yet--patronize your local hardware or paint store. The color doesn't really matter much. Use light or neutral if you don't want to darken the wood much, dark if you do want to darken it. If you use Walnut R-a-F maybe use natural Watco Oil. In any case you won't get a lot of color because of the wipe on/wipe off process.

Early 3s (not 3a) did have a plastic grill. If that's what you have, just use Fantastic or 409. Removing those grilles is a DOG and you run a VERY high risk of breaking the plastic frame, so if you don't have to, don't. If you look at my AR3/3a thread here you will see photos of the woven vinyl grilles: http://www.classicsp...?showtopic=6284

Also check the Library section for a photo of Tom Tyson's AR3 in the Smithsonian! Vinyl grille on that, too. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/original_models_1954-1974/original_models_pictures/

Kent

[genek]

Oiled AR speakers of the 3's vintage would have been finished with boiled linseed oil, no stain. Later models from the early 70's with a darker brown color show definite signs of having had some coloration applied, and of having some sort of catalyzing agent like mineral spirits or a small bit of varnish added to the oil, neither of which get in the way of refinishing with penetrating oil the way a coat of poly would.

[DON]

The AR2ax speakers I bought in 1973 had an oil finish that was flat compared to what I get on my Advents with Howards products. Boiled Linseed Oil diluted to about 1 part oil to 3 parts mineral spirits or turpentine will give your wood essentially the same finish. I've used this mixture for several years on WWII and before bolt action rifles because it doesn't change the appearance of the wood. It's absolutely essential that any mixture of BLO be allowed to dry at least overnight. If a second coat is applied before the first is COMPLETELY dry it can gum up and you start over again. I haven't used Watco oil but I have used so called tung and teak oil. They both contain some varnish. I prefer the no gloss finish on my ARs but Roberts finish is so good at removing some stains and scratches I'll use it if I must.

Good luck with your projects.

[jag]

Thanks for all the replies. I combined everyone's advice and picked the worst side of the better speaker to do my testing with (the bottom). No scratches but some obvious water stains and dark stains. I already had linseed oil in my basement so just went with that, and superfine (0000) steel wool. The steel wool did a great job at removing the stains and it blends in really well. I'll give it another coat tomorrow; if it looks as good when its all dry as it looks now I'll be very happy. I'm impressed that they used real veneer and not stain - I never would have guessed that walnut without stain would be so dark and rich looking.

I took a before picture; I'll post it once I have an after picture too.

Another question about the AR-3's: I read in some of the other posts about a metal number 3. Was that on all the AR-3's (if so then they didn't survive on mine).

It has the plastic speaker cloth so that should clean up easily (and the plastic frames didn't break!)

[DON]

I have a pair of 2ax that are fairly rough and somebody painted them black! I've got the paint off one side and the top and I can already see how beautiful the walnut will be when I'm finished.

If I were you I would try diluted BLO and see what they look like. BLO won't interfere with applying another finish if you decide you want them darker. Just my personal preference but I wouldn't put any finish on them that contains varnish.

[JKent]

Yeah--those "3" pins are easily MIA. There was a new member here who said he had the ability to fabricate some. A couple of us were interested but never heard any more about it. Maybe I'll find the link.

Kent

edit: Found the thread: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6238

Member snl was going to make some but have not heard from him since. Maybe try sending a PM.

Also found the sheet from AR about renewing the oiled walnut (and other) finish

[jag]

Thanks, I sent snl a PM - it said I didn't have permission to send an email. Hopefully he still stops by now and then.

Thanks, too, for the AR letter.

Looking ahead, do you use velcro to attach the grills? Any pointers on doing this?

[DON]

Thanks, I sent snl a PM - it said I didn't have permission to send an email. Hopefully he still stops by now and then.

Thanks, too, for the AR letter.

Looking ahead, do you use velcro to attach the grills? Any pointers on doing this?

My European cabinets just have small pieces of velcro attached in several places around the cabinet and grille. I've seen some that were glued on and some attached using small staples.

[JKent]

Sometimes the grilles will just stay in place by friction. If not, a few (maybe 6--each corner and center of the long edges) Velcro pieces will work. They come in handy dots or strips. Self-adhesive. Place the "loop" pieces on the baffle 1st, then take the backing off the "hook" pieces and attach them to the corresponding loops (or is it the other way around? Doesn't matter). Finally, put the grille in place and press all around the edges so the dots adhere.

Tips: Check the placement before sticking. You don't want the grille dots sticking to cloth. You want bare Masonite.

I sometimes make a small "pull" out of leftover linen or--maybe better--fishing line. This way the grilles will come off easily without prying around the edges. You can see what I mean here: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=1783&st=0&p=59728entry59728

Kent

[JKent]

I have a pair of 2ax that are fairly rough and somebody painted them black! I've got the paint off one side and the top and I can already see how beautiful the walnut will be when I'm finished.

If I were you I would try diluted BLO and see what they look like. BLO won't interfere with applying another finish if you decide you want them darker. Just my personal preference but I wouldn't put any finish on them that contains varnish.

Here's an interesting piece on oil finishes that may answer a lot of questions:

http://www.popularwo...history-and-use

I was considering switching from Antique Oil to real, 100% Tung oil for my radio cabinets, but according to the article;

This oil, which is pressed from the nuts of a tung tree, was introduced to the West from China about 1900. It was useful for making superior, water-resistant varnishes, especially for outdoor use.

But tung oil is too difficult for most people to use by itself as a finish. You apply tung oil just like linseed oil or oil/varnish blend, but you have to sand tung oil after every coat, not just after the first, and it takes five to seven coats, allowing two to three days drying time between each, to achieve a smooth, attractive sheen.

Anyway, I recommend the short article to all who are refinishing their vintage stuff.

Kent

[genek]

Pure tung oil is a pain to work with for the reasons mentioned above. Its plus over linseed is that properly produced it can result in a high-gloss finish. Most modern oil finishes blend the oil with a solvent such as mineral spirits or a citrus-based evaporator to speed drying at the expense of needing additional coats, and often blend in some varnish as well to add more protection and gloss. All of these blends can be easily treated with products like Restore-a-Finish or stripped and refinished if needed. The one thing you want to avoid is polyurethane, which impregnates the wood fibers with plastic and never really comes off no matter what you try to use.

[JohnHeubel]

Thanks for all the replies. I combined everyone's advice and picked the worst side of the better speaker to do my testing with (the bottom). No scratches but some obvious water stains and dark stains. I already had linseed oil in my basement so just went with that, and superfine (0000) steel wool. The steel wool did a great job at removing the stains and it blends in really well. I'll give it another coat tomorrow; if it looks as good when its all dry as it looks now I'll be very happy. I'm impressed that they used real veneer and not stain - I never would have guessed that walnut without stain would be so dark and rich looking.

I took a before picture; I'll post it once I have an after picture too.

Another question about the AR-3's: I read in some of the other posts about a metal number 3. Was that on all the AR-3's (if so then they didn't survive on mine).

It has the plastic speaker cloth so that should clean up easily (and the plastic frames didn't break!)

I hope your linseed oil finish works fine. I've been using the Danish Oil now for furniture restorations, to include speaker cabinets, and love the finish you can get. I does absorb and harden in the wood fibers which is very nice, and for a somewhat open-grained wood like oak or walnut, you can flood the surface with the oil and wet-sand with 400 grit or so to form a natural paste "filler." Let it dry a bit and then wipe off the remaining paste across the grain to fill in the voids. Makes an extremely smooth, durable finish and if you only use one or two coats, there's very little sheen. But you can build up coats to the point of a nice gloss if so desired.

Here's how mine looked after cleaning with 0000 steel wool and mineral spirits, and then after one coat of Watco Dark Walnut Danish Oil:

John

[jag]

John, the Watco looks great. Mine are noticeably darker with the linseed oil. I don't have good pictures, but here's the dramatic change that linseed oil with 0000 steel wool, then another coat of linseed oil made. This was the bottom of the speaker - the other sides were in much better condition to start but look about the same now. I now have two coats on both speakers.

[jag]

And here's a picture of both speakers, with two coats of linseed oil. Thanks for all the suggestions and help. This place is great!