1973

[kkantor]

Recently found this erotica from my teens.

-k

[Shacky]

Nice eye candy Ken. Having AR 2AX, 5, 3a, KLH 6, and the Dynaco A25's, I'd have to say the Dynaco's would be the best bang for the buck.

$58 less than 2AX

$152 less than AR 5

$290 less than AR 3a

And $130 less than KLH 6

But wouldn't you love to be able to buy all of them for those 1973 prices?

How did Henry get away with advertising the Model 6 as having a 12" woofer?

Thanks for posting.

[Zilch]

How did Henry get away with advertising the Model 6 as having a 12" woofer?

Same way AR got away with advertising AR3a frequency response as 38 Hz - 20,000 Hz (+/- 2dB) -- different yardsticks....

[Carlspeak]

Aaaaah, an alluring gallery of forbidden enticements indeed!

[kkantor]

You're welcome! Yeah, speakers cost a bit more now, eh?

1- "Get away" with claiming a 12" woofer, or +/-2dB? You guy's are killing me!

We live in a world where it is routine to advertise 200W systems running from a 15W wall-wart. Skin effect and quantum noise in cables. Fast and slow woofer constructions. The audibility of .000000000002 seconds of jitter. In those days, almost all manfacturers held themselves (and were held) to much higher standards of TIA. And they actually tested their products very carefully, and with sincerity. (Well, I can think of a few companies that were not very rigorous, but they were generally not well-regarded names...)

2- Bang for the buck, pound for pound champ, Miss Universe? Hmmm... I guess I don't think that way. The A25's were the love of my life for years, followed by the 2a, and many others not in this picture. These were ALL great products, that did a fantastic job giving a variety of customers what they wanted at fair prices. The best one was the one, for each person, was the one that went home with them and gave them lots of pleasure.

-k

[RoyC]

You're welcome! Yeah, speakers cost a bit more now, eh?

1- "Get away" with claiming a 12" woofer, or +/-2dB? You guy's are killing me!

I couldn't agree more.

I noticed the ad pages are from a "Lafayette" catalog. Having owned a pair of Lafayette Criterion speakers in those days, with "actual" 12 inch woofers, I would have gladly traded them for a pair of KLH 6's with those "misrepresented " woofers. Henry was also responsible for the lowly Large Advent Loudspeaker, equipped with that awful 10 inch woofer in the 12 inch basket.

Roy

[Zilch]

Henry was also responsible for the lowly Large Advent Loudspeaker, equipped with that awful 10 inch woofer in the 12 inch basket.

Seems Dahlquist rather liked it.

No problem; the AR 12" woofers weren't 12", either; Henry was merely carrying on an established tradition....

[RoyC]

Seems Dahlquist rather liked it.

So did I...t'was a joke.

Hmmm, and you wonder why you get accused of AR bashing.

Roy

[Zilch]

Hmmm, and you wonder why you get accused of AR bashing.

Nah, nobody's proven it yet!

[i DO admit to modding them, tho, if that's an operative equivalent.... ]

[kkantor]

Seems Dahlquist rather liked it.

No problem; the AR 12" woofers weren't 12", either; Henry was merely carrying on an established tradition....

There are two or three epiphanies, unforgettable moments, I had growing up, that convinced me that I was going to devote myself to audio professionally. The last, and most memorable of these, was hearing a DQ-10 and The Large Advent in the same room at a highend dealer. Each did a splendid job at things the other couldn't handle. I remember the moment it hit me: if both of these designs are so good, but so different, the prevailing notions of loudspeaker design and accuracy are very incomplete, perhaps even wrong. I've never really thought about the close link between those two products before.

-k

[Zilch]

I've never really thought about the close link between those two products before.

That should make it even more intense, then: DQ-10 has a bigger dust cap.

There's something else about them I'd like to show you, a design mystery, and the EconoWaved Advents are here now, as well.

Let's discuss....

[RoyC]

There are two or three epiphanies, unforgettable moments, I had growing up, that convinced me that I was going to devote myself to audio professionally. The last, and most memorable of these, was hearing a DQ-10 and The Large Advent in the same room at a highend dealer. Each did a splendid job at things the other couldn't handle. I remember the moment it hit me: if both of these designs are so good, but so different, the prevailing notions of loudspeaker design and accuracy are very incomplete, perhaps even wrong. I've never really thought about the close link between those two products before.

-k

Very interesting...

I first heard the DQ-10 in a small NY music club, which was using a pair as sound reinforcement for "acoustic" music acts in 1977, as well as for recorded music. I knew they were well regarded, but they exceeded my expectations. They also exceeded the contents of my wallet....so, after learning about the woofer connection, I did what I thought was the next best thing, and purchased a pair of Large Advent walnuts at a clearance sale. I didn't capture the DQ magic with that purchase, but it was the beginning of my general obsession with speakers. Shortly thereafter, an older friend of mine passed his AR-2ax's on to me, as the level controls were "troublesome" ((they were less than 10 years old, and the pots were already an issue ), which sealed my fate as a speaker hobbyist. Recently, I finally had the pleasure of listening to a pair of your incredible NHT 3.3s at the home of one of our esteemed CSP members. We are very glad you decided to devote yourself to professional audio!

Still crazy after all these years.

Roy

[Steve F]

I had all those Lafayette and Allied catalogs and then when my Mom was cleaning out the house after my Dad passed away in 1998, we tossed them along with many other one-of-a-kind audio items. Still kicking myself over that.

My Dad and I listened to Dyna A-25's, Whafedale W-45's and AR-4x's at Lafayette when my Dad bought his 4x's. The Lafayette salesperson gave him the 4x's for the 'unfinished' price of $57 ea (those were the days before AR's were heavily discounted), and in those days, the difference between the 25's $79 and the 4's $57 was a big deal to my Dad.

So we brought the 4x's home and they absolutely walked all over the big 15" 3-way Goodmans floorstanders that my Mom hated. The 4's bass was so much deeper and stronger than the Goodmans' and it was that sonic revelation that sparked my interest in audio in general, and AR in particular.

All because of hearing them at Lafayette Radio. Thanks Ken.

Steve F.

[oldguide]

This trip down memory lane provides yet another chance to thank all of you who put the rebuilding guide together and also thanks to Roy C and others who helped along the way. I also remember lusting after ARs, trying to save up enough money for a pair and was lucky enough that my father read my mind and gave a pair of AR3s as a college graduation present along with a Dynaco preamp and amp. The ARs served faithfully for many years until they "gave out"--at least so I thought. So they were consigned to the bedroom (if they had not been a gift, I probably would have let them go) where they sat for years until I discovered this forum. Now they are resurrected (twas the old pot problem and a few other issues) and have proudly become my main speakers again. Funny, how things go around. On top of that I have now rediscovered the AR4x which I think is an unheralded little gem.

[Sfffz]

This trip down memory lane provides yet another chance to thank all of you who put the rebuilding guide together and also thanks to Roy C and others who helped along the way...

My own enchantment with AR's began in college, junior year. I'd retired my monaural Eico amp and Radio Shack 8-inch speaker (it a $5 closeout) and bought a pair of economical, unfinished AR-2's. I'd save some money by staining the pine boxes myself. No one told me I should first stir the stain, so I applied stain without pigment. It wasn't pretty. But the speakers sounded good. I sold them off when, after graduation, a music camp acquaintance was dating the daughter of Mr. Vilchur of AR. My friend got me an opportunity to buy some beautiful walnut veneer AR-2ax's; I picked them up myself, at the AR factory at 24 Thorndike Street in Cambridge, and paid a wholesale price.

Five years later I thought I should buy my bride her own AR's for her sewing room. For $57 apiece I got a pair of AR-4x's. Of course, both the 1965 2ax's and the 1970 4x's got pushed aside over the years, but I kept them in the basement or the attic. The 2ax woofers got attention at New England Speaker, then last year I re-capped them, cleaned up the pots, and sold them off. I also fixed up the 4x's. They sound nice.

This year - only a month ago - I picked up a pair of AR3's from 1960 and 1961. As a young man AR3's were far beyond my budget. Now, like so many other excellent vintage speaker sets, they are easily within reach. Restoration is nearly complete. Sure. And a year from now, and two years from now, I will also say that restoration is nearly complete.

I have become one of you!

David

[soundminded]

I had all those Lafayette and Allied catalogs and then when my Mom was cleaning out the house after my Dad passed away in 1998, we tossed them along with many other one-of-a-kind audio items. Still kicking myself over that.

My Dad and I listened to Dyna A-25's, Whafedale W-45's and AR-4x's at Lafayette when my Dad bought his 4x's. The Lafayette salesperson gave him the 4x's for the 'unfinished' price of $57 ea (those were the days before AR's were heavily discounted), and in those days, the difference between the 25's $79 and the 4's $57 was a big deal to my Dad.

So we brought the 4x's home and they absolutely walked all over the big 15" 3-way Goodmans floorstanders that my Mom hated. The 4's bass was so much deeper and stronger than the Goodmans' and it was that sonic revelation that sparked my interest in audio in general, and AR in particular.

All because of hearing them at Lafayette Radio. Thanks Ken.

Steve F.

Lafayette Radio was a playground for electonics, optics, and all kinds of scientific toys when I was young. The store on Liberty Avenue in Jamaica Queens was only a short bus ride away, maybe a mile or so from Audio Exchange while the Syosset store on Jerricho Turnpyke, Lafayette's headquarters was about a 30 or 40 minute car ride away. During the sixties and seventies, lots of stuff I and my friends bought got auditioned at Lafayette Radio and bought at Newmark and Lewis just down the road. The trick was to buy more than one item on an order which allowed Newmark and Lewis to get around New York's Fair Trade Laws which set prices for some merchandise by saying it was giving very deep discounts on other merchandise that was not subject to those laws. The laws were eventually challenged in court by Jerry ??? who owned JGE. The case resulted in the laws being declared illegal and the discount wars began.

What a shame Lafayette Radio is gone. Their own store brands of electronics were generally not good but they sold every other major brand as well. Lots of kits too and they had everything on display so you could play with it in the store. They did have some notable exceptions in their own product line. Anyone who has a 1959 catalogue will find a 12AX7A based preamp with more knobs and switches on it than probably any other preamp ever made. They had among the first solid state integrated amplifiers which looked externally very much like the AR amplifier but years earlier. At the end around the early 80s before they became Circuit City that recently went bankrupt, they sold the same three receivers as the French company Setton at a fraction of the price under their own name. These receivers were manufactured in the same Fisher plant in the far east and at the end were sold off at giveaway prices. They also marketed a speaker under their own name with a Heil Air Motion Transformer tweeter. They always had excellent service and sales staff who would get whatever you wanted out of their vast warehouse/stockroom and show it to you explaining it in great detail. They seemed to know their products very well. They also had lots of great sales. Too bad in those days, like most people, I didn't have much money to spend on the things I really wanted. The annual catalogs were huge and I looked forward to each new one when it came out.

[frankmarsi]

11-11-09, 10:03P.M. EST.

This is uncanny!

A number of weeks ago as I went through my old stuff and I found my 1967 Lafayette/Allied catalogs. I read those books so many times all of the corners were curled and most pages were worn.

In my forgetfulness, I don't remember if I thru it in the garbage or shoved it in another 'get-back-to-it-later' pile of junk in my fury of 'clean this place up'...

Those catalogs and all available literature were in my "very beginnings of Hi-Fi". I may have more in an unopened box of similar material packed away sometime in the mid-sixties and layer and layer of 'info' that I collected and wanted to preserve. Back then,circa 1967, I never dreamed that I would collect and own as many AR speakers and spare 'raw' drivers as I do presently. "God" bless me, and "America" too!

I'm sorry that I missed this post at it's beginning cause it would have made me feel lost in a sea of memories, but gladly so. Heck, I'm feeling it right now!

If, I'm not mistaken, that store was in the same store location on 'Union-Square" and 14th. Street,NYC, before it became 'Packard-Electronics', or maybe it was 'next-door'? I almost rented 'raw-studio-space' in that same building in '79. Or, I'm just wrong and my memories fail me.

I'm feeling that I might be wrong, but maybe a member can comment and 'rocket' me back to that 'Golden Era' of 'Hi-Fi' of the late sixties and early mid-seventies once more other than me gazing at my original AR-3a's and simply dreaming of the past. My LST's keep me 'in' - 'audio-heaven' regardless.

FM

P.S. Lost in time, but isn't that what this site proclaims proudly?

P.S. 2, We do it proudly and that's 'a good thing'. Sure beats what may be current in the field. Almost a strange feeling to think what if people may be listening to my system 20 years from now in 2029 if I leave it to the right people?

P.S. 3, I may be going 'head-to-head' on another pair of LST's in MA. on the bay.

P.S. 4, May the best 'collector' and listener win. This person I go with is a site member also.

P.S.5, Sometimes my system sounds better while I'm in the next room talking to you guys. Must be another phenomenal "LST-Moment", as we know it?

FM

[kkantor]

Great posts, all!!

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=5721

-k

[jmsent]

Allied Radio was my favorite place growing up as a kid in Chicago. ( And if I had any spare time left, a huge Olson Radio store was right across the street.) Huge selection of name brand gear along with their own Allied and Knight house brands. The Allied catalog designs and layouts were so similar to Lafayette and Radio Shack, I have to wonder if there wasn't one advertising firm that made them up for all of these places. I don't know if this has been posted before, but here's a site that's a real walk down memory lane. Warning: click on this only when you've got some spare time on your hands:

Radio Shack Catalogs

[Steve F]

Great posts, all!!

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=5721

-k

Guess the year? I don't know for sure. It looks to be about 5-10 years before I really got into things. I'm going to say 1959, based on the fact that the descriptions don't mention "stereo."

BTW, those are pretty pricey items, no? If you do an inflation calculator on that Altec at $525 or that Brociner at $420, it comes out well over $2000 in today's dollars.

Steve F.

[RoyC]

Great posts, all!!

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=5721

-k

...responded in the other thread. I'm going with 1955.

Roy

[Steve F]

...responded in the other thread. I'm going with 1955.

Roy

According to Roger Russell in FM's post, it was 1954. Roy is much closer than I was:

"I went almost every year. At the 1954 show, I was most impressed with the sound of the Brociner Model 4 speaker system in the Tetrad Diamond demonstration room."

Steve F.

[frankmarsi]

According to Roger Russell in FM's post, it was 1954. Roy is much closer than I was:

"I went almost every year. At the 1954 show, I was most impressed with the sound of the Brociner Model 4 speaker system in the Tetrad Diamond demonstration room."

Steve F.

eh! Steve F, U answered to the incorrect page.

It's funny, if one would look at most of my past 'posts', I start my own, and generally, I, lastly finish and end my 'posts'

I'm a freak, "I-tell-ya"! People are afraid of me and my system, they leave with the same look on their faces after they hear my system!

Almost as if to say: "nothing that 'old' should sound that good"! And to boot, they never discuss 'hi-fi' around me again, they only speak of their 'big-screen' TV's!

FM

P.S., I also listen to my 4-LST's alone too, for the most part.

FM

P.S.2, and just to annoy anyone else, 'my re-foam jobs' come out neater and better than anyone else's too! And I can do two 're-foams' in under 3 hours with 'stellar' results! Stella! Where's 'Stella"? Where is Stella?

FM

P.S.3 It's my 'woofer-basket' head-dress I' tell ya! No one seems to believe that I walk around with a AR-12inch woofer basket on my head.

Well I do, and I can assure you that I have enough 'spare-woofers' that I can wear a different one for each day of the week!

FM, a man and his old speakers, amps, pre-amps, records and tapes, too!.

[Tekker]

I've thoroughly enjoyed this string. The main Lafayette warehouse in Syosset, NY was maybe a 20 minute drive for me and I made the trip often after perusing that thick catalog for hours each time. It was like the Christmas Sears catalog when I was little, but year round. At the time it seemed it had everything electronic that anyone could ever want. I remember buying a boxed crossover network there and employing it with many garage sale speakers. In 1973 I scraped up the money to buy a Pioneer QX949 receiver there which I was sure would satisfy my audio needs for a lifetime. I also bought my used AR3a speakers at a small audio store's closing for $250 with one bad midrange. After getting that fixed in Manhattan, music was heaven and I wowed many a visitor, much like FM. I bought a pair of brand new LST2s mail order for about half the list price shortly thereafter. Didn't appreciate them at the time, probably not having the power to drive them, so sold them for the price I paid a few months later. Wish I still had them. I still have the 3a pair though and the receiver, but the receiver is a shadow of its former self. Recently I've discovered this site and borrowed a friend’s amp and preamp. Thanks to your advice and the rebuild manual here (a true wealth of information), I'm in heaven again. I've cleaned the pots and replaced both tweeters with originals and I'm still considering replacing the wax paper caps. I've forgotten how good my 3a's sound. They even exceed my memory.

[Tekker]

I've thoroughly enjoyed this string. The main Lafayette warehouse in Syosset, NY was maybe a 20 minute drive for me and I made the trip often after perusing that thick catalog for hours each time. It was like the Christmas Sears catalog when I was little, but year round. At the time it seemed it had everything electronic that anyone could ever want. I remember buying a boxed crossover network there and employing it with many garage sale speakers. In 1973 I scraped up the money to buy a Pioneer QX949 receiver there which I was sure would satisfy my audio needs for a lifetime. I also bought my used AR3a speakers at a small audio store's closing for $250 with one bad midrange. After getting that fixed in Manhattan, music was heaven and I wowed many a visitor, much like FM. I bought a pair of brand new LST2s mail order for about half the list price shortly thereafter. Didn't appreciate them at the time, probably not having the power to drive them, so sold them for the price I paid a few months later. Wish I still had them. I still have the 3a pair though and the receiver, but the receiver is a shadow of its former self. Recently I've discovered this site and borrowed a friend’s amp and preamp. Thanks to your advice and the rebuild manual here (a true wealth of information), I'm in heaven again. I've cleaned the pots and replaced both tweeters with originals and I'm still considering replacing the wax paper caps. I've forgotten how good my 3a's sound. They even exceed my memory.

Oooooops................wrong string..............sorryx