meta_noia_fot Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 I picked up a set of AR-2’s recently and figured I’d document my progress here. All original parts and no one has been in them before. Today I removed the grill cloth and the cardboard grill that was glued and stapled to the baffle. I plan on making removable grills with Masonite leftover from my Model Five project. The most noticeable flaw with the pair is that someone with even less cabinet knowledge than even me attempted to varnish over the original oil finish I think. The varnish is flaking off everywhere and the cabinets have a sickly greenish hue. I’m hoping to get these sanded down this week. Tomorrow I’ll take out the drivers and look at the crossover. Hoping to see oil capacitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 If all the varnish is like this, try a scraping knife first. It might just fall off with a lot less sanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 More pictures please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted March 28 Author Report Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, RickB said: More pictures please! Here’s a few more photos of the cabinets before I remove the drivers. 15 hours ago, genek said: If all the varnish is like this, try a scraping knife first. It might just fall off with a lot less sanding. I’ll try that. Likely it will be effective since the varnish is just rubbing off on my hands while moving the cabinets around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted March 30 Author Report Share Posted March 30 Sanded down today. This is walnut, right? I’m second-guessing myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Can you shoot more faces? Ar-2s originally came with some unfinished pine faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted March 30 Author Report Share Posted March 30 8 minutes ago, genek said: Can you shoot more faces? Ar-2s originally came with some unfinished pine faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 2 hours ago, meta_noia_fot said: Sanded down today. This is walnut, right? I’m second-guessing myself. It appears to be the typical walnut veneer. The varnish/lacquer type of finish of the earliest AR (and KLH) cabinets is more difficult to deal with than the later oil type. It is not unusual for it to become blotchy as it is sanded. The front trim piece is solid wood and will be easier to deal with. It would be prudent to wait for Gene to weigh in before proceeding. I see he posted as I was typing. Edit: and so did you. Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 I thought one of the end faces looked a bit like pine, but AR-2s didn't come with unfinished short faces unless the entire cabinet was pine. The long faces are definitely not pine. The color of the wood under the flaking makes me think it's possible that it could be cherry. Those dark pockmarks on the left speaker in the last photo are also more common in cherry than walnut. If you're thinking of staining, I'd say just pick the color you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 Thanks @genek. I think I would prefer a cherry stain personally. I decided that I’m going to stain these, but I haven’t done that before (Danish Oil is what I’m most familiar working with). I saw another poster in an archived thread had some really nice results with a gel stain and poly over it. I’m still early in my research on this. Do you have any recommendations? In the meantime I need to replace the caps and clean the pots. No luck on oil caps for me; they were wax blocks in mine. Tomorrow I’m going to try to replace a small missing piece of veneer on a top cabinet edge. I recently saw one of Glenn’s threads and how neat his repairs are cutting out spare pieces of veneer. I have a busted pair of Classic-era walnut cabinets I can steal a little veneer from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 My preference is an NGR (non grain raising) dye stain. This is an alcohol-based aniline dye that doesn't obscure grain the way pigmented stains tend to do. I dilute the stain with reducer so it adds color lightly, then do multiple applications to get the color the way I want it. Once it fully dries, then it can be coated or oiled. Whether to coat or oil depends mostly on whether you want a gloss. Most of my refinishing these days is dye stain followed by a tung oil finish (tung oil and citrus-based solvent blend). You can also use dye stain to tint an oil finish, but you'll have less control over the color that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 Thank you @genek. I have some tung oil and solvent on hand. I’ll look into NGR stain and reducer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted April 1 Author Report Share Posted April 1 @genekHow do you apply your NGR? I read spraying is the best method but I’ve also seen a retarder can be added to extend drying time to allow brush/wipe on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 I mix one part dye to three parts retarder. The usual instruction is 50/50, but I prefer to build color up much more gradually. This is especially important if your wood is cherry (we're still not sure), because stain on cherry can get blotchy if left on. Wipe it on and right off, don't leave it sitting there and soaking in. You'll get a very light tint that will darken slowly with repeated applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted April 11 Author Report Share Posted April 11 So after removing some walnut veneer from an old 3a cabinet, it didn’t match well. I decided the cleanest way to do this patch would be to buy new veneer. I got a sample pack that contains Cherry, Mahogany, Maple, Red Oak, Walnut, and White Oak. Of course they aren’t labeled so I’ve been trying to figure out which is which. Could anyone confirm I have this correct? Photo is of the 6 samples laid on top of the AR-2. I arranged them in what I believe to be the order above from left to right. The veneer on the left is the one that most closely matches the cabinet in both grain and color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted May 13 Author Report Share Posted May 13 Unfortunately I ended up with splotchiness, @genek. It’s not so noticeable in a typical room but in direct sunlight it really comes out. Is there anything I can do at this point to improve their appearance? I applied Mohawk ngr stain with a 3:1 reducer to stain ratio with a small amount of retarder mixed in. I wiped on and off as quickly as I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 You may still have some old finish in the grain in spots. Try rubbing it down with reducer (no stain) and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted May 13 Author Report Share Posted May 13 41 minutes ago, genek said: You may still have some old finish in the grain in spots. Try rubbing it down with reducer (no stain) and see what happens. That definitely helped. Here’s a before and after of a side. The splotchiness is reduced. Is there anything else I should do before applying tung oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 If you like the color the way it is, you might try another rub with reducer on whatever will be the bottom to see if you can further reduce the blotches. Because an oil finish is going to make them stand out more. If these were mine, I'd probably want them darker (as I recall, original cherry ARs were fairly dark). I'd follow up the dye stain with a light application of pigmented stain to further level the light/dark areas. Instead of tung oil, I'd use varnish or a varnish/oil blend like Watco to get a gloss that looks closer to the lacquer originally used by AR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted May 13 Author Report Share Posted May 13 Do you have a recommendation for a pigmented stain, @genek? The only thing at my local hardware store is Minwax, which I looked up and people say the cherry stain is pigment only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 For pigmented stains I prefer gel stains. I like the gels from General Finishes, but Minwax also makes them. To apply gel over dyed wood you first apply a light coat of sanding sealer or shellac to prevent the new stain from dissolving the dye. Wipe on/off, let dry. Then wipe on/off gel, let dry and apply final topcoat. Here's a site with step-bystep and a video (this is for walnut, but the process is the same for any hardwood): https://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/woodworking-101/tips-tricks/3-great-ways-to-hide-sapwood-in-walnut/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted May 14 Author Report Share Posted May 14 Great video. Hopefully I’ll make some more progress on this in the next couple of days. Thanks again, @genek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted May 16 Author Report Share Posted May 16 Alright, cabinets are finished. I followed the process from the video and your comment, @genek. Here’s a photo of a couple of sides in fading sunlight and a photo of the side with the veneer patch. Photos are after applications of sanding sealer, pigmented stain, and 3 layers of Danish Oil over top of the work discussed above. Still a little splotchy up close but heaps better than it was. The patch was looking better but I hit it a little too hard while sanding the sealer. Overall though I think they turned out quite nice. The next time I do a set of cabinets I think I’ll give this method another go with lessons learned. Thanks as always for your help, Gene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 Nice work! One final tip that may help a bit with the last bit of blotching: tinted paste wax. https://briwax.com/product/briwax-original-16oz/ There isn't a cherry tint, but red mahogany will probably go well with your finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta_noia_fot Posted May 17 Author Report Share Posted May 17 Looks like that limited color is only available in the larger size, and that costs more than I paid for the speakers. Good to know that option exists though and I may keep my eyes open for a cherry color of a different brand of wax paste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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