new owner of ar-4x pair

[madwing]

hi, and a bit by way of introduction (i heard of this place via audiokarma.org, and it's all it's cracked up to be!). my wife and i just got an ipod for christmas, and are putting all our cds on it (apple lossless codec). hence we need a stereo amp/speaker set for pushing out the sound to our listening room (our living room). it's a 13 x 22 space, and she wants SMALL. so, i replaced the given 3-ways we had (rogersound labs 3300) with this here pair of ar-4x's.

when i first hooked them up (driven currently by a given pioneer sa-7100), i played some "mingus alone", which is him playing piano, and lovely. sounded great. shut it off, went to bed, and last night played the beatles "love" mash, in the 2.1 channel cd audio (ripped to the ipod, again, apple lossless). it sounded muddy and constricted, much smaller than it had with the 3-way speakers. now, i expected that, to some extent (12 in. v. 8 in. woofers, one less tweeter, etc.), but not to that degree.

i know the speakers have pot issues, given that they cut out and pop at certain spots on the dial (different places on either one). so, at a certain point i'll refurb those, or replace them with the 15 ohm, 25 watters shown here (unless someone has a better idea): http://www.leedselect.com/parts-resistors.html#rheostats

will that open up the sound? or does it sound like i should be in for recapping? if so, can anyone recommend specific caps for a 4ax recap?

i've gone through the site and seen various information on these questions, and just can't seem to get my head around it all...so i thought i'd ask and hopefully concentrate the issue at this point in time.

best,

madwing

[draftingmonkey]

madwing,

glad to see you made it over. was beat to the punch over on the karma. you will some pretty good ideas of what to do, but give it time. some of the members here are not on every day. i am sure that the pot cleaning/replacement will be one of the first moves. if that doesn't solve the problem after that i would bet on a recap. there will be plenty of suggestions on what to use. it can be daunting at times digging thru the archives and trying to disseminate all the data. good luck on getting them running right.

once up you should be very happy. have 4 pairs myself and love them. if possible by room and amp you might try to get another pair for a front/rear setup. use that setup in the master bedroom which is bigger than your space and with 13 foot cathedral ceilings. running off an old Fisher 800C (tube) receiver they really fill the space. typically the wife plays cd's while putting around. the others are used with a 4x/2ax stack but that's another story.

they are a great speaker and have a very impressive sound, and i don't mean just for their size either. welcome aboard and we hope to see more of you around the forum. keep us up on the progress and what you think.

BTW in lookling at your post you use 4x and 4ax. a little different so let us know the correct model.

james

[madwing]

james, my bad. they're 4ax's, per the back of the speaker.

i'll have to check out the LONG post john (from az) sent to me, and recommend it for a sticky here or at audiokarma...it's a great compendium, step by step...parts and all....

wow, what great information, thanks for the welcome!

best,

bill

aka madwing...

[JKent]

AR 4x restoration (with thanks to members of classicspeakerpages)

1. Remove the grilles. They are glued on with something like hot melt glue and kind of hard to remove. Do not stick a screwdriver blade between the frame and the speaker cabinet—you’ll gouge the walnut. You may be able to remove the speaker badge (it unscrews) and put a screw into the hole about ½” and tug. Of course if the grille cloth is shot, just cut it and pry from the inside.

2. Remove the woofer. It is held on with Phillips head machine screws threaded into T-nuts. Pull the woofer away. It is caulked in with black gummy stuff. You can save this to re-use or but some Mortite window caulk or black duct sealer (electric dept) at the hardware store.

Be sure to note the polarity of the speaker. Sometimes the blue lead goes to the lug marked RED!! You can de-solder the leads to re-solder later, or use crimp stakon connectors (my choice) or cut the wires and splice them back together later.

There is a sheet of yellowish paper separating the speaker from the Fiberglas stuffing. Try not to tear it. Save it to re-use.

Pull out the Fiberglas and save it in a plastic bag. You may want to use gloves and a mask—it’s nasty, brittle, itchy stuff. You want to put back exactly the amount of Fiberglas you take out. It’s OK to use new Fiberglas (insulation) as long as it’s the same amount. If you have brown “rock wool” stuffing, do NOT reuse it. It reacts badly with the pots. Buy new Fiberglas. Do not use synthetic Fiberfil.

3. Inside the box are the inductor coil (looks like a spool), capacitor (square waxy thing with 2 wires) and the pot (level control). Remove the hex nut on the pot from the back of the speaker.

4. Now decide: Do you want to replace the cap? Many advocate this. You can use the same value: 20uF. I used Zens from North Creek. Many use Solens or Carlis. You leave the old cap in there, cut the wires, and put the new cap in. On this set of AR4x’s I replaced the pots with L-pads, available from Parts Express or Vintage AR, but purists advocate cleaning and reusing the pots. On AR 2ax’s I cleaned the pots, and that’s what I’ll do on the next set of 4’s. Here’s a picture (attachment 2). You can see I use crimp connectors, but soldering is good too.

5. Here is what the pots look like (attachment 1). You can take them apart by removing the wire bale. The ceramic half will have a coil with a terminal at each end.

There is also a brass disc in the center. The steel half with the control shaft running thru it has a metal springy plate with a bump on it. All these contact points have to be cleaned. I used a little wire brush in my Dremel tool to get everything shiny. You could then coat things with dielectric grease or DeOxIt for good measure. Put the pot back together. If you have an ohmmeter, you can check that the resistance goes from about 0 to about 15 ohms as you rotate the shaft. If it does not seem to go up & down smoothly, do some more cleaning & polishing.

6. Put everything back together. Don’t forget that funny paper sheet, and the caulking around the woofer.

7. If you decide to refoam the woofer, you can get good kits from MSound. Good instructions, and email support. They show step-by-step instructions here:

http://www.citlink.net/~msound/refoam/

[fromwm]

AR 4x restoration (with thanks to members of classicspeakerpages)

1. Remove the grilles. They are glued on with something like hot melt glue and kind of hard to remove. Do not stick a screwdriver blade between the frame and the speaker cabinet—you’ll gouge the walnut. You may be able to remove the speaker badge (it unscrews) and put a screw into the hole about ½” and tug. Of course if the grille cloth is shot, just cut it and pry from the inside.

2. Remove the woofer. It is held on with Phillips head machine screws threaded into T-nuts. Pull the woofer away. It is caulked in with black gummy stuff. You can save this to re-use or but some Mortite window caulk or black duct sealer (electric dept) at the hardware store.

Be sure to note the polarity of the speaker. Sometimes the blue lead goes to the lug marked RED!! You can de-solder the leads to re-solder later, or use crimp stakon connectors (my choice) or cut the wires and splice them back together later.

There is a sheet of yellowish paper separating the speaker from the Fiberglas stuffing. Try not to tear it. Save it to re-use.

Pull out the Fiberglas and save it in a plastic bag. You may want to use gloves and a mask—it’s nasty, brittle, itchy stuff. You want to put back exactly the amount of Fiberglas you take out. It’s OK to use new Fiberglas (insulation) as long as it’s the same amount. If you have brown “rock wool” stuffing, do NOT reuse it. It reacts badly with the pots. Buy new Fiberglas. Do not use synthetic Fiberfil.

3. Inside the box are the inductor coil (looks like a spool), capacitor (square waxy thing with 2 wires) and the pot (level control). Remove the hex nut on the pot from the back of the speaker.

4. Now decide: Do you want to replace the cap? Many advocate this. You can use the same value: 20uF. I used Zens from North Creek. Many use Solens or Carlis. You leave the old cap in there, cut the wires, and put the new cap in. On this set of AR4x’s I replaced the pots with L-pads, available from Parts Express or Vintage AR, but purists advocate cleaning and reusing the pots. On AR 2ax’s I cleaned the pots, and that’s what I’ll do on the next set of 4’s. Here’s a picture (attachment 2). You can see I use crimp connectors, but soldering is good too.

5. Here is what the pots look like (attachment 1). You can take them apart by removing the wire bale. The ceramic half will have a coil with a terminal at each end.

There is also a brass disc in the center. The steel half with the control shaft running thru it has a metal springy plate with a bump on it. All these contact points have to be cleaned. I used a little wire brush in my Dremel tool to get everything shiny. You could then coat things with dielectric grease or DeOxIt for good measure. Put the pot back together. If you have an ohmmeter, you can check that the resistance goes from about 0 to about 15 ohms as you rotate the shaft. If it does not seem to go up & down smoothly, do some more cleaning & polishing.

6. Put everything back together. Don’t forget that funny paper sheet, and the caulking around the woofer.

7. If you decide to refoam the woofer, you can get good kits from MSound. Good instructions, and email support. They show step-by-step instructions here:

http://www.citlink.net/~msound/refoam/

Thank you for your post! I just began to upgrade my AR-6 from 1972. I did manage to pull the grill off, and noticed the surrounds completely rotted away. I tried your link to m-sound and found the instruction helpful. I decided to send them my first email over two weeks ago. Afer 1 week, they didn't respond, so I decided to send another through ebay. They still didn't respond. I found a few other sources on ebay and both responding the same day. I'll probably order from them as they have new grill cloth, oil finish kits and pots. Thanks again for you post!