AR-2ax woofer voice coil blown

[gahamby]

I need some advice on repair/replacement of these woofers. I have emailed Millersound and have received no reply. Their phone is constantly busy. Are they still in business?

Who else in the Eastern US re-cones speakers? Are re-cone kits available?

Thanks GH

[frankmarsi]

@  gahamby,   Correct, that coil looks like it had its last word. At times like this, you can either disassemble the cone from its voice coil unsealing the voice from the spider and then glue it all back together and hope and trust your construction abilities. Or, you can install a used woofer purchased where ever you can find, it shouldn't be difficult to find them as the 2Ax was very popular and, you may find a couple of woofer fully re-foamed and ready to go. Some here are fearful of purchasing online though, all I can say to that is: "Yous pay da price, you take your pick and you take your chances". Back in the '70s and '80s regarding my foam problems, I was entirely alone, no such thing as web-sales back then. The many newcomers in the last 20 to 30 years have it easy, although they missed all fun I had in that period also. I mean, geez, I been on this forum going on 20 years already!

The auction site has protections in place that will usually take sides with the buyer. Communicate well with the seller and go from there.  See link below.

If it wasn't for eBay offerings, I don't think I would've been able to keep my AR's going strong 52 years later. As a long term owner of AR speakers (52yrs.), by the mid-eighties I wasn't able to use my AR-3a's because I wasn't able to locate or even ponder a possible option of re-foaming them. I silently became very annoyed at AR for using foam that just simply would deteriorate in the time I owned them. Generally, these days foam-surrounds have much improved quality manufacturing.

Same for my LST's up until 1989 when I noticed a small ad for foam surrounds offered for sale, I don't recall if it was in Stereo-Filel magazine or elsewhere. It was a sole proprietor out of the Carolinas somewhere. I was the new owner of 5 AR-LST's that couldn't be used because their surrounds were completely gone, same with my originally purchased in 1971,  AR-3a's.

I needed a few foam sets but, decided to start working with one set for my LST's first.  Back then the foam-surround market was no where as flooded with suppliers as it is presently. In fact seamless, single-piece molded surrounds were not anywhere to found. The surrounds I received had a split in them that had to be joined together once it was applied to the stamped basket edge and woofer's edge. It took more time, as I was uncertain of every step of the installation.

Luckily, the first installed set of foam surrounds worked out well and I continued to re-foam the second set. Not long thereafter, many suppliers started to appear with single one-piece surrounds making assembly much easier. To date, I've probably re-foamed over 26 woofers since 1989. I also keep a supply of spare used woofers, tweeters, and midrange drivers all bought used on the auction site as I'm committed and fully dedicated to AR speakers. And, as an admirer of their sound quality practically most of my life, I'll not let the speakers down and more importantly won't let myself down. 

For me, it was a challenge to buy them, much less afford them and use them properly since I was 20-21 years young. Today, I still strongly hold the course. At the time, older hi-fi guys thought I was a well off kid, what they didn't know was I worked a number of jobs and made certain sacrifices just to buy them. At 20-21 years old, most kids weren't into stereo as much as I was and I still played in a band and had a steady gal, and a car. Friends usually came to me with, "what do think I should get for a stereo Frank" , and "gee, those AR speakers are just too expensive".    

     Of course vinyl was the medium of choice back then. Today, vinyl still is my medium of choice except, there too I've gone the distance to learn how to use vinyl to its best advantage with a regiment of ultra-sonic cleaning for any disk that finds its way to my turntables. Top quality cartridges and excellent care of 'set-up' and record-care top it all off.

You're lucky there's such a forum as 'CSP' for all of your AR questions and needs as I am also.

FM

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155854619477?hash=item2449a8c355:g:8oUAAOSwoQFlPFLl&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8IKo2%2Fz60pX1f35Ed79dT%2FptgUJfdfAeChufYEcxSF6hLH2d9IHjgyp91cwsHshuXvipn5NZXfWUplKYMFUpU7I33hwmmZ5Fobs99Kwy%2FA%2F6fHCW8ONOOfbFEFlSUydyZcRtUUj1AhMzCOnOyOcRA%2BCBAHQ0Quihyp5dwg1Bm4hR0Gdf2V%2BGMIFrnhdMHfzOiGtiiGWHJPGTtlQGxAwSntpJ69SyTb%2BLw6JaxaDx0M6fufPXhxpcfvaYz05Yp9JolKtCFN2ulLN77BROnLN%2B%2BaX6OEpW53pO3Kw9a0K6yRmTvIPcMn3Bi3mVPU18LXAp2Q%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR57Dv5byYg

 

 

 

11

[JKent]

Send RoyC a PM. If anyone can fix them he can. 

[gahamby]

Thanks for the replies,

Frankmarsi, Thanks for the Ebay link. I have considered that option. Am I out of the frying pan and into the fire buying speakers that may have the same issues as my existing ones? 

What's the process for repairing the voice coil? Do I have to tear up the re-foam I did a few years ago, detach the spider from the frame, disconnect the leads, extract the cone assembly, re-wind the coil and then re-assemble the whole mess with new foam suspensions?

I could probably do that. If I fail then I could still go full replacement. I've never gotten that medieval on a speaker before.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Thanks, GH

JKent,

Thanks, I will contact RoyC.

[frankmarsi]

Well, that doesn't sound very inspiring, I thought he'd wanted to attempt to do this on his own. So much for self motivation and determination. When I meet a challenge, I too will panic but, after some time I'll investigate if it's at all possible to do myself.

If he's planning on keeping long-term or until the new foam becomes deteriorated he'll be in the same place he's in presently. Once you've re-foamed speakers yourself, you then have even more confidence in these speakers knowing in the event of breakdown, you yourself can turn them around and continue enjoying.     Or, and if cost is not a issue, then let some one else do it for you. I'm leaning towards DIY.                                                                                                                                               I came from a family where every meal was made from scratch and of natural ingredients. I myself, did all my own car repairs that didn't call for a 'lift' but even then I did my own brake jobs, plugs and cables, oil changes and suspension lube, shocks, and cleanings, etc. Sadly, car makers took that all away from the masses also and I'm reluctant to even look at my new car's 3.5lt. V6 engine. Although, last month I did repair wires to the 'variable-valve-timing solenoid connectors' on the rear-bank of cylinders that the dealer cut out of malice, and event denied it besides. I saved myself a few hundred rite there. Bought the new plugs and but-connectors and fixed it,I couldn't take the 'check-engine' light any longer nor would it pass inspection like that. The future may just be as we've seen in it movies where we're all dependent on others and we've all become drones. We're mostly there already, sad.

But, hey, that's just me as my background was to repair broken things and to continue to use them. That was also the case for the masses for ions. The modern instant- gratification expectation world we've created in the last 50 years has taken that inspiration away from most of us so, I understand And some are just not equipped for doing certain things mechanics, I get that. But, there's the sheer fun of fixing things that's rewarding. And hey, if you've got old AR speakers it's sort of part and parcel. I recall complaining to hi-fi shops in NYC about not being able to play my speakers after 10 years or so and the only answer I got was': "Buy New Ones". Even that was from a person who probably didn't have the wherewithal  himself, I did and refused to throw-away my classic two AR-3a's, 2 AR-2ax's and four AR-LST's. This is what I held out for:

https://www.google.com/search?q=replacrng+of++speaker+voice+coils&sca_esv=578947632&biw=1778&bih=888&tbm=vid&ei=4xZEZfmNDNfi5NoP8cmO0Aw&ved=0ahUKEwi5i_Gxo6aCAxVXMVkFHfGkA8oQ4dUDCAw&oq=replacrng+of++speaker+voice+coils&gs_lp=Eg1nd3Mtd2l6LXZpZGVvIiFyZXBsYWNybmcgb2YgIHNwZWFrZXIgdm9pY2UgY29pbHNIAFAAWABwAHgAkAEAmAEAoAEAqgEAuAEMyAEA&sclient=gws-wiz-video

[gahamby]

Why do you refer to me in the 3rd person? Why do you imagine I do not wish to repair these speakers myself? I asked those questions in hopes of confirming the process.Two thirds of your reply was about you. Thanks for the Youtube links, I'll look into them.

[frankmarsi]

19 hours ago, gahamby said:

Thanks for the replies,

Frankmarsi, Thanks for the Ebay link. I have considered that option. Am I out of the frying pan and into the fire buying speakers that may have the same issues as my existing ones? 

What's the process for repairing the voice coil? Do I have to tear up the re-foam I did a few years ago, detach the spider from the frame, disconnect the leads, extract the cone assembly, re-wind the coil and then re-assemble the whole mess with new foam suspensions?

I could probably do that. If I fail then I could still go full replacement. I've never gotten that medieval on a speaker before.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Thanks, GH

JKent,

Thanks, I will contact RoyC.

GH, I suggest you speak to the surround suppliers and discuss the voice-coil replacement process and judge for yourself, get in touch with Roy as he's the 'GUY'. Ask his take on the situation and go from there. If your skill level does not allow you to feel comfortable you will have your alternatives listed, choose one. This is not brain surgery. 

I was simply stating what I would do and have done and will continue to do. Re-foaming is no great pleasure after the third or fourth time but, like anything else that's worth while, it's worth while!  When I first replaced the foam on one set of LST's in '89, my wife at the time and I were so happy. Perhaps maybe too happy  because when she got home before I did, she proceeded to blow-out the remaining tweeters and I then had a whole new set of problems.  I warned her but, she was just too wild and perhaps of a different sub-species yet unknown to man.

"MAKE-WAY, MAKE-WAY," let those Micro-Static little boxes in the door please. *They' re still the best $117. I ever spent on my stereo since 1967. to present. And as Tony the Tiger would say...........they're........... That is; once I took my hamburger-helper Micro-Static tweeters away from my AR-3a's and used them with my LST's all was good again.

And to answer your question of, "what if the used ones I buy, have a similar issue"? I answered that in my first post that it is important to communicate with your 'vendor' and state that and or ask if there are any problems that even he may not be aware of, can you return them as you received them for a refund? Check vendor's selling and buying history and ask a couple important questions. View their history also. I use pay-p_l or credit card as additional support.

Several years ago I ordered another set of used 3a woofers and I ended up sending them back due to severe damage. The seller had used zip-ties to join the woofers together face to face and placed them in a cardboard box. They ended up floating around in the big box and due to their immense uneven weight, broke the zip-ties and the metal frames ended up gouging each other's cone destroying the paper cone along with a bent metal basket. I was furious and dismayed at the same time.

 I really enjoy the bass these woofers make and therefore value them greatly. I was disappointed to say the least though I did send them back and got a full refund. Dialog with your vendor is of the upmost importance when dealing with the unknown of shipping and buying more or less blinded because you're not handling them as you would when you buy something in person.    

 Speak up, keep your questions succinct and hope for the best but, protect yourself first. I then went on to buy another 20 or more used 12" AR woofers and all except two that had that infamous white mold on the paper cone I now have a bountiful supply. Tested them all with a 1.5v battery and, no rubbing was noticed.  I purchased most of them at $50. each or less in the early 2000's. Now, they're at least twice that.

FM

videos on VC replacement:      

 https://www.google.com/search?q=replacrng+of++speaker+voice+coils&sca_esv=578947632&biw=1778&bih=888&tbm=vid&ei=4xZEZfmNDNfi5NoP8cmO0Aw&ved=0ahUKEwi5i_Gxo6aCAxVXMVkFHfGkA8oQ4dUDCAw&oq=replacrng+of++speaker+voice+coils&gs_lp=Eg1nd3Mtd2l6LXZpZGVvIiFyZXBsYWNybmcgb2YgIHNwZWFrZXIgdm9pY2UgY29pbHNIAFAAWABwAHgAkAEAmAEAoAEAqgEAuAEMyAEA&sclient=gws-wiz-video

 

Your ?  ""What's the process for repairing the voice coil? Do I have to tear up the re-foam I did a few years ago, detach the spider from the frame, disconnect the leads, extract the cone assembly, re-wind the coil and then re-assemble the whole mess with new foam suspensions?""

I believe it's either Simpler-Speakers or Madison Speakers that sell it as a complete kit with V.C., spider and fiber/paper cone. Researching, taking notes, bookmarks, emailed questions and general observation are the best ways to get information. The two links I sent here for you should just about keep you busy and come away a bit better informed.

I might add that if this is your first venture off in the world of such things I would suggest practicing on a trashed speaker or try it completely with the back end, last resort knowledge that if it doesn't succeed, you'll have to buy a good pair of used ones anyway. Over all, I think you have most of the information on the topic to get started one way or the other. 

FM

34

[gahamby]

https://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/ar-10-1-5-vc-aftermarket-recone-kit/

Any experience with this vendor? Either the DYI kit or full service replacement.

[frankmarsi]

3 hours ago, gahamby said:

https://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/ar-10-1-5-vc-aftermarket-recone-kit/

Any experience with this vendor? Either the DYI kit or full service replacement.

Yes, I tend to be verbose but, if you've owned/enjoyed and spoke of these speakers the countless times as I have, my dialog becomes a rant about personal history with them invariably after 50+ years of AR ownership. For a possible newcomer, they might wish they had that same history or, can be put-off by it. I've met others who are just as into-it as I am, some even more so.

It'll be interesting to hear more about your set-up and any back story of how you got there as a point of reference.

These speakers have been part of my life and, except for the handful of original owners and the newcomers who are reaching to get a touch of that history, it's a select group of folks who are passionate. Actually, if one truly enjoys old AR's in a well set-up system of notable mention, one tends to feel strongly about it. I believe we all consider ourselves fortunate. It goes without saying some of us can border the obsessive.

Anyway, take the plunge as the first step, the cost is not life changing and, you'll be able to get a hand hold and tell the forum about your results.

Call the vendor, tell them it's the 10" AR woofer frame, not the 12" one to be sure. Hopefully, others here will come forth with their experiences and advice.

Obviously, I can't help but feeling buying a pair of used ones first will be your quickest route to listening. Then, you could take your time with re-foaming, installing a new Voice coil and spider. 

P.S. The 'new' paper cone will no doubt have difference in its construction material. It could be lighter, thinner or even heavier so, be forewarned it would sound slightly different. That to me would definitely steer me towards buying a used unit. Yes, I mentioned my collection of surplus stock also.

FM

[gahamby]

Thanks for the reply,

I have owned these AR-2ax speakers since 1972. That have moved to a lot of places with me. I have re-foamed the woofers, replaced the pots and tweeters. New caps are in the mail. As is typical of the internet, Youtube specifically, there is a lot of chaff out for the amount of wheat to be gleaned.  

I have found some decent Youtube videos. The one on the Speaker Exchange web site is good. Another good one by Uncle Doug follows from there.

I'm going to continue my research.

Thanks again for the links.

GH

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by gahamby
Content correction

[frankmarsi]

GH, good to know, now all here have an idea of your history. It'll be much easier to address situations on a common-ground. I for one really didn't know on what level to speak to you with. On the web, all sorts of people exist and all hidden behind the keyboard shield, it's difficult speaking to a ghost. Many use the 'shield' to fool others with a false or fake background and knowledge. There's a few out there who fake it all the way by parroting what they've read from others and present a false impression. Some of that same type of person are posers and aren't recommended as friends or acquaintances but merely insecure individuals who lie.

From what little you've just now mentioned, I feel you'll have no problems on this repair of a vintage AR speaker.

I still maintain my opinion of using used woofers first and then the complete rebuild of your current woofer in time.

FM

 

[RoyC]

GH, The 1.5" rebuild kit shown in the link will not work for your woofer basket. Your woofer is the earlier version with a smaller voice coil diameter.

Millersound may be the best bet for this one at the moment. Most of my repair work for this woofer has been re-gluing the cone and spider replacement. Up until now there have been enough used ones available to keep demand for this repair relatively low.

Roy

[gahamby]

RoyC, Thanks for the reply.

What diameter should I be looking for? I put my dividers onto the pole and measured 1-1/2'" (38mm.) Is this a slight difference or something quite obvious?

Millersound has not responded to my email and their phone number answered with a constant busy signal to multiple attempts.

[RoyC]

2 hours ago, gahamby said:

RoyC, Thanks for the reply.

What diameter should I be looking for? I put my dividers onto the pole and measured 1-1/2'" (38mm.) Is this a slight difference or something quite obvious?

Millersound has not responded to my email and their phone number answered with a constant busy signal to multiple attempts.

GH, The earliest version has a 1.3" voice coil. The 2nd and 3rd iterations have a 1.5" voice coil. After looking at your photo again, it appears your woofer is the 2nd one with alnico magnet and foam surround, so the kit should work. Sorry for any confusion.

Post a photo of the whole woofer when you get a chance.

Roy

[gahamby]

RoyC,

Attached are pics of the carnage. The voice coil is quite close to the SE re-cone kit specs.  The other woofer is still whole and mounted. I'm going to need that re-cone kit now! 

"PLEASE CHECK THE PARTS SPECIFICATIONS. There are multiple versions of this woofer that require different parts. If you need a recone kit with a 1.29″ voice coil, please contact us." (from the Speaker Exchange web page) 

GH

 

[RoyC]

The 1.5" kit is the one to go with.

The only thing I do differently is to remove the spider, not the fiberboard mounting ring. Re-glue the ring in place before proceeding.

Roy

[gahamby]

Agreed, given it to do over I would have left the fiberboard in place and cut away the spider.

I went with the Speaker Exchange kit. It's a nice kit. The re-cone went ok for my 1st effort. I should have used the non-VOC contact cement on the surround. The VOC cement makes foam surrounds curl and gives no time to work. The Lock-Tight 5 Min epoxy gets lumpy very quickly. I liked the JBL black glue better. I think I would solder the lead wires to the coil wires off the cone and then glue them down. That bit was tricky.The speakers are back in service the sound and look good. I re-stretched the grill cloth after firming up the fiberboard frames with some epoxy and rounding the edges of the openings. Given that to do over I would have stretched the cloth when it was damp so it tightened as it dried. I polished the cabinets with Howard's Restoration-A Finish. That took off stains I thought I would never get off. The dirtiest part of the job was getting off the multiple types of adhesives that glued the window screen to the frames. The screen fell off. The glue was a fight. Savogran Heavy duty brush cleaner a gasket scraper and a red pad were employed. I installed the new caps and extended the driver leads so I could run them out to the walls of the cabinet and glue them down. Now I can remove/install the components and re-stuff the dampening a little easier.

Thanks to all for the advice and this forum in general.

GH

https://www.howardproducts.com/products/

https://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/ar-10-1-5-vc-aftermarket-recone-kit/ 

[newandold]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:27 PM, gahamby said:

I need some advice on repair/replacement of these woofers. I have emailed Millersound and have received no reply. Their phone is constantly busy. Are they still in business?

Who else in the Eastern US re-cones speakers? Are re-cone kits available?

Thanks GH

https://www.simplyspeakers.com
 

excellent and reasonable…… Bill Legall at Millersound did a lot of work for me, but I use these guys once also on recommendation and they did a great job… Worth a try if you run dry with your other options

[newandold]

Oops.

 

Oops

 

Sorry it appears I was late to the party for not scrolling all the way down. Looks like you’ve got the situation well in hand.