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AR9 Power Rating


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2 hours ago, AR surround said:

A simple question:  Does the AR9 maximum amplifier power rating of 400 watts refer to the amp's 8 ohm or 4 ohm spec?

Neither. It is the power delivered to the speaker terminals.  There is no analogy that is less lengthy than the direct statements of the first paragraph under the power handling caption on the spec sheet located inside the back cover of the AR9 manual.

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Thanks, I had forgotten about that page.  The section titled "Power Handling Capability" starts out by saying: May be used with amplifiers capable of delivering 400 watts continuous power per channel being driven to clipping 10 percent of the time on normal music source material.

The key word is "delivering."   It would appear that my amp, rated at 350 watts/channel continuous into 4 ohms both channels driven (0.05% THD), is close to that top AR specification.

Further looking at the AR spec sheet, 50 watts per channel produces 107 dB SPL in a typical (rather large, actually) room.  Of course, I am interested in amplifier headroom to deliver uncompressed sound rather than blowing my ears out at 107 dB.  The quality of the sound when I switched from a Dynaco 40 wpc amp to a Dynaco 200 wpc beast to drive my AR5's was brutally obvious.  However, I would suspect that increasing power from 350 wpc to 500 wpc (not even 2 dB) would be hardly noticeable with the AR9's.

 

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My amp produces 500wpc and I doubt I could be able to stay in the room with 400wpc being pumped into my 9s.

I have run my 9s with my 60wpc tube amp and my Emotiva A-100 headphone amp that is 80wpc into 4ohms. Its enough to make them fairly loud.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have just acquired a Parasound A21 to drive the AR9s.  It puts out 400 wpc into 4 ohms.  It is a class A / AB design that offers the benefits of class A performance at lower power levels. It's the biggest amp I've ever used to drive these speakers. 

The whole new signal path (Oppo 205 with ESS Sabre DAC outputted via balanced XLR cables into the preamp with XLRs into the A21) has resulted in noticeably improved sound over what I had before...a Lexicon RV8.   And that was pretty darn good until the unit failed.   Listening to what I use as reference recordings, the music sounds a bit more open, the highs are cleaner, and the sound stage is a bit wider and deeper.   I can't really say if all this is due to the bigger amp or the purer signal chain.  Perhaps a tad of all these upgrades.

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Probably the sum of all the gear BUT the amp is most likely the biggest influence. Are you able to keep the amp in Class A or does it just convert to AB at a specified output? Most AB amps start out in Class A and transition to AB.

Your new amp is probably a current pusher unlike the older amps.

Enjoy!

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Some of the benefits of high power is a sense of depth in all it conveys at levels that can and will approximate ‘live’ music. I would know because I started out with 17.5 watts per-side back in 1967 driving speakers I assembled together from raw components like many did back then and certainly others before my time.

A few years ago on this forum I reported my new purchase of two AR-9s in minty condition.

I had first hooked them up to a single Phase Linear PL-400 which offered 400 watts per-side at 4 ohms. Though the speakers sounded good, I was use to more depth, detail and more balls-to-the-wall realism that is the domain of high-power amps performance.  I realized I was accustom to the newer big amps in my collection, the Phase Linear 700 Series II and it's two of these that power my number one system using four LST's.

Getting  back to the AR9’s demand for power, I first used a singular 400 watt per-side amp PL-400. Later onI decided to run two Phase Linear PL400’s in a bi-amped configuration. Truthfully, although each amp had to work less hard I still knew I could get more out the speakers and still enjoy a ‘bigger’ sound by hooking up a Phase Linear 700 Series II amplifier exactly like the two PL-700’s I use in my main system firing-up four AR-LST’s.

Much to my delight, I recieved what I was searching for because at a RMS rating of 700 per-channel the bigger amplifier came through with flying-colors. To this day and even though I hardly use the second AR system I so lovingly put together, I prefer the sound of a monster-amp driving sound my AR-9’s. All my amps use fans because it’s the over-all safest way to use 4 ohm speakers the way I do at realistic levels.

And fellas, as much as I am a happy owner of AR-9's and just had to have a pair, I will always be partial to the LST speaker as I'm a long time AR speaker owner going back to 1971 of official ownership, though I started loving them as far back as 1965 when I heard my dentist's pair. Owning AR's for so many years/decades makes me feel as though I'm a true-blue, AR-o-phile.

So, I understand what others are missing though, I'm glad DavidR and AR-surround are still championing the cause.

FM

P.S. I'll say it again, AR-surround, we owe each other a visit. I still need some time to organize this house but, at some point it'll happen. When you own as many vinyl records as I do, (over 7000+), things can become overwhelming. And to think from 1961 to 2004, I only had 300 in number then, from 2005 to the present I went hog-wild  after buying $1000+ cartridges and after purchasing much more expensive cartridges in the mid 2 to 4 grand area, it seemed to be the next logical step to buy even higher amplifier power. Everything opened-up and suddenly sounded so much 'real' even more than with 400 watts per-channel. 

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5 hours ago, AR surround said:

I have just acquired a Parasound A21 to drive the AR9s.  It puts out 400 wpc into 4 ohms.  It is a class A / AB design that offers the benefits of class A performance at lower power levels. It's the biggest amp I've ever used to drive these speakers. 

That's a terrific amplifier - it should do an excellent job with your AR-9, and I'd imagine that with the balanced XLR input, it will be dead quiet, too. 

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22 hours ago, DavidR said:

Probably the sum of all the gear BUT the amp is most likely the biggest influence. Are you able to keep the amp in Class A or does it just convert to AB at a specified output? Most AB amps start out in Class A and transition to AB.

Your new amp is probably a current pusher unlike the older amps.

Enjoy!

Thanks, David.  It converts to AB at a specified output.

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17 hours ago, ar_pro said:

That's a terrific amplifier - it should do an excellent job with your AR-9, and I'd imagine that with the balanced XLR input, it will be dead quiet, too. 

Thanks ar_pro.  

As some of you may recall, I am a surround-sound enthusiast.   I am also using a Parasound A52+ to drive the center (AR915), surrounds (AR90) and rears (Boston A70).  This amp also has XLR inputs and produces 255 wpc into 4 ohms with all five channels driven.   In two-channel mode, it puts out 350 wpc into 4 ohms.   Thus, listening to quadraphonic and 5.1 recordings, such as Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, is a true showcase of the capability of the AR9 / AR90 / AR915 combination.

17 hours ago, frankmarsi said:

P.S. I'll say it again, AR-surround, we owe each other a visit. I still need some time to organize this house but, at some point it'll happen

Frank: Why do we have to wait until you organize your house?  Guy's don't give a hoot about that stuff.  😗

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1 hour ago, AR surround said:

Thanks ar_pro.  

As some of you may recall, I am a surround-sound enthusiast.   I am also using a Parasound A52+ to drive the center (AR915), surrounds (AR90) and rears (Boston A70).  This amp also has XLR inputs and produces 255 wpc into 4 ohms with all five channels driven.   In two-channel mode, it puts out 350 wpc into 4 ohms.   Thus, listening to quadraphonic and 5.1 recordings, such as Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, is a true showcase of the capability of the AR9 / AR90 / AR915 combination.

Frank: Why do we have to wait until you organize your house?  Guy's don't give a hoot about that stuff.  😗

Now, you've got me thinking about a near future date.

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On 8/6/2021 at 6:10 PM, DavidR said:

Emotiva had a couple of amps you could hold in Class A with the flip of a switch. The favorite was the XPA-1L monoblocks.

 

Emotiva+XPA-1L+Top+opened.jpg

Test report on this one are mixed,  the XPA-1L mono-blocks though are still interesting for a lower-cost Class-A operation price option than others. The heat class-A gives off could be a deal-breaker for those with small-ish rooms. I've never heard one myself but always had an interest. In fact many say B Carver was actually prompted by the need AR's had for more wattage.  I had already assembled my first system in and around the the same time in 1967 and being a young avid Hi-Fi person subscribing to the popular 3 hifi magazines back then, I could easily understand that rumor (see old advert. below). For me though, I'd rather have a good old vintage amp that was great 50 years ago from the same era when my speakers were made. Other's tastes and opinions will vary of course.

Always been curious about class A, I found this about the amp mentioned.  https://www.pooraudiophile.com/2015/01/emotiva-xpa-1l-class-aclass-ab-monoblock-amplifier-review.html

Below:  An ad from the early-mid 1970's. Ads such as these made me feel good about buying into the world of high-power from early on in 1974. And yes back then, I was convinced that those were AR-3a's in the ad wrapped in chains and that I was a proud owner of both items at that same time. The fact is many folks still haven't experienced what high power can offer to the critical listener especially with a good front-end. Back then in '74, I was enjoying the thrilling sound, and huge soundscape due to using AR-3a's and Phase Linear PL-400.

Below: Ad from 1974 endorsing the use of high wattage.

1560000887_ScreenShot2021-08-07at11_52_53AM.thumb.png.4b052a9dde9dcb5593c342eb1e70cfc5.png

 

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Yes, Class A operation creates heat. This is why I've always had the Rule of never buy a used Class A amp. People who own or have owned the XPA-1L say its a very nice sounding amp. As for older amps I'm no longer a fan. I fooled around with many of the Caver amps including going thru the modified units. I was so happy the day I said good-bye to old amps. I've never looked back. The new stuff is so much better sounding.

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Hi David, obviously, to each his own. What an individual uses is relative to said discussions. After reading/studying and going to hear so many components through-out 7/8's of my life, I sometimes question owning old speakers also but, my good old speakers have never failed me audibly or otherwise. Oh sure, a blown woofer or tweeter here and there is par for the course. One could get a flat on a new car also. The same with a vintage collectable car or even a house as they all come with their own set of parameters and special needs. Anything that's new will become old as a matter of course.

Old amps surely can have their particulars but, speakers are no different, henceforth the constant rehashing of repair discussion on this site.

It all depends on how much or to what degree one is a vintage aficionado. Like I said I've been using the same equipment for years and have been more than happy. The few areas that I've modernize-in sort of speak is interconnects and phono-cartridges along with newer ways of vinyl-disk cleaning. That in of itself have led me to changes and propelled my system to new never experienced before lofty heights. I'm unable to orally convey to anyone here what a $4,000. sounds like. No matter though as I've been disputed here often enough. Like a quality new car, one doesn't appreciate it until you own a new one. But again, I endorse vintage as I feel 40-50 years ago, certain advances were made that we still live with today in to some degrees modified form. But wait, what do I see? This is a vintage AR speaker site, no need to ask to be understood like I usually do or, do I?

I could go out tomorrow and drop a ton of cash on other speakers, amps, etc. but, I prefer to use what I lusted for and grew up with in the world of hi-fi in my own personal hi-fi history.  I'm very sentimental obviously especially given the stuff I use, AR's since 1971, Phase Linear since 1974, vinyl since a kid and allowed to use the family's record player. Though I'm certain if anyone here heard what I've assembled, they'd agree I'm on the right path as I have been for all of these five+ decades as I know the present setup truly sounds impressive.

In closing, I can say that I'm happy with all of the choices that I made. It seems as though with the choices that you've made, you are also.

 

See this post:  

 

 

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