JKent

Thought I'd revive this thread. The comments above from Fred Pinkerton are informative. Here is another Advent 402 thread: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7438&hl=%2Bfred+%2Bpinkerton So I've managed to acquire 5 Advent 402 speakers and have started to restore them. One will go with my Advent 410M mono FM radio (currently using a single Minimus 7) and a pair will go with my 450 mini stereo system. The other pair will be reserved for the future acquisition (I hope) of a 420S stereo radio. The 402 speakers are similar in size and construction to the 400 but unlike the 400 they are 2-way and the woofers have foam surrounds that rot. The 400 has a single full-range driver with rubber surround. I bought surrounds and dust caps from our old friend MSound. His ebay account is defunct, as is his web site but John can be reached at msound@shentel.net He specializes in complete kits but will sell just the surrounds and dust caps if you ask (tell him you are a CSP member). I happened to have some leftover shims and WD glue so all I needed was the surrounds and caps. Speaking of "caps".... I also replaced the capacitors. The xo is on a PCB and consists of a pair of resistors, a pair of inductors and a pair of caps. Original caps are NPE: 8uF and 16uF. I replaced them with Carli film caps (8uF & 15uF) but had to move them off the PCB because it's too tight on the board. Here are the original components: C1 16uF 50v NPE C2 8uF 50 v NPE R1 & R2 2 ohm 5w sand cast L1 & L2 0.8 mH The woofers have thick gaskets that should be retained to get a proper seal between the back-mounted driver and the plastic baffle board. I destroyed one getting it off so it was replaced with some foam gasket tape from PE, cut in half lengthwise. edit: Use a heat gun or hair dryer to soften the glue on the gaskets then use a putty knife or similar. The second photo shows one 402 with rotted surround and one with new surround and dust cap.The third pic shows the original xo, the fourth pic shows the new Carli caps. The last photo shows the woofer with shims in place and clamps around the perimeter. This shot just makes me grin Decent sounding little speakers. Won't replace your OLAs but nice radio speakers. Kent

Have the Cizek logos now. These "may" not be exact duplicates--Cizek seems to have had several different styles and colors. These are glossy black with bright brass lettering. About 1.75" x 1". The Cizek Model One brochure here http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/cizek_2/cizek_brochures/cizek_model_one_brochure/ seems to show gold lettering on a brown or black background. The badges shown in our Library http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/cizek_2/cizek_pictures/cizek_badges/ show two versions from Model Ones — “The one with black background/gold lettering is from an earlier set S/N 1675 and 1709 when Cizek was at 149 California Street in Newton, MA and the one with gold background/brown lettering is from later set, S/N GF-1313 and GF-1315 when Cizek was at 15 Stevens Street in Andover, MA” These appear to be flat, engraved. I was able to borrow a badge from a Model Two. It was embossed aluminum—gold lettering on a brown background. So I believe the badges I have are authentic for at least the earlier Cizeks. The very first Cizeks, made in Bloomington Indiana and the last ones made in Torrence CA used a different style badge altogether. Kent

Hi Carnivore I may be overly cautious but I would not use 80 grit to start (and would not stop with 220). If the scratches are deep they may not come out. I would sand those areas by hand, WITH A BLOCK (see Harry's comments in post #22) then use the orbital sander, being careful to avoid edges and corners where it is very easy to sand through the veneer. When I sand SOLID wood cabinets I generally progress: 80, 100, 120, 150, 220, 320, 600. With veneer I would skip the 80 through 120. If you use the iron & damp cloth trick, I'd do that first--before any sanding. The Mohawk epoxy is good for gouges and corner bashes and again should be done before any sanding. I've seen recommendations for oxalic acid to bleach dark stains but i have not used it and have not found anything that will take out dark water marks. That's one reason for using Dark Walnut Watco. You can Google "oxalic acid wood bleach for dark water stains". The BLO did darken the wood and AR recommended re-applying periodically (every 6 months--see post #4). The walnut veneer tends to lighten or fade (counter-intuitively) with age and the Medium or Dark Watco helps bring back the original color. Watco Oil is not really a stain and I have found little difference whether using Neutral, Medium Walnut or Dark Walnut. Kent

still need a Cizek logo. Borrow or buy. Kent

Here's the latest: I'm using a new supplier, so I've deleted the photos from earlier posts and will attach photos of the new stuff. Here is what I have now: AR: Small brass "AR INC." for 4 series and turntable. Large brass "AR INC." for AR-1,2,3. Brass "a" for 2a. Brass "3" for 3dynaco: Brass dynaco speaker logoAdvent: OLA type aluminum logo used on several modelsKLH: Aluminum "KLH" stick-on in 2 sizes suitable for most KLH speakers. I don't have the heavy cast logos that were used on the Five, Twelve and others but the large aluminum ones look right until you examine them closely. Also have all of the metal labels and logos for the Model Eight, Thirteen and their associated speakers. KLH logo for the Model Eleven Suitcase.That's all for now but if there is sufficient interest I can have other aluminum or brass plates made. Anybody have a Cizek logo I could borrow? PM me with your needs and I'll quote a discounted price for CSP members. Kent

Don. I don't know how bad the woofer refoam is, but here are my AR91s: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6565#entry88793 See post #12. The previous owner did what I considered a sloppy glue job and I did not know how to undo it so I sent the woofers to Bill LeGall (Millersound in PA). He fixed 'em up good as new and I thought the cost was reasonable. He's a good guy and a master of his trade. If you're like me you have no hesitation to do a routine re-foam. But when I have a mess on my hands I send the speakers to Bill. He recently reconed my Cizek woofers and they're better than new! Kent

6-1/2" is correct. Kent

FWIW: Mohawk makes a product that is fairly easy to work with. Roy swears by it: http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=113 And Watco (and others) makes a product called Teak Oil: https://www.google.com/search?q=teak+oil&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Attached is the file I think you're looking for. Kent applying furniture finishes.pdf

Hi Rex Just did a cursory search and I see you and Roy have discussed this on AK. It seems the 24 had the single 4uF and the 24/II had the 8uF and 16uF. There is no switch on the back (as there was on the similar 17 and 20). AK member Boto wrote "8uf... is the ... value of the tweeter cap in mine. The 16uf across the woofer may have been a later mod to the crossover that wasn't in yours. No harm in adding it in. It should help sharpen the slope of the roll-off of the woofer." Sounds like an explanation. Don't think we ever figured out the inductor values in the 2 versions. Kent

btw, welcome Rex I'm stumped. The only thing I can think of is this: KLH made both a Model Twenty-Four and a Model Twenty-Four Series II. Mine were the Series II. Maybe they changed the design. There are other members here with M-24 experience, so maybe you'll get another answer. Think if these were mine I'd just replace the 4uF and see how they sound. You could always go with the more complex xo later. Kent

Nice find! First of all--that capacitor absolutely must be replaced. It's PVC and they always leak (or worse--I had one explode!) Your photo is a little unclear but what's throwing you off is--that's a double cap. A common lead comes out of one end and there will be two leads coming out of the other. The cap itself will be marked with the 2 values. Just replace it with an 8uF and a 16uF. I used Caeli caps from Madisound in mine. They are inexpensive and the ESR is close to the originals. Kent

Hey Harry. Good question. IMHO the "patina" that develops over the decades often makes the wood look muddy and dull, and hides the grain. Using KLH radios as an example; the walnut has taken on an orange-ish cast but if I sand down to raw wood it is somewhat redder. Still not like present-day walnut veneer, which tends toward purple as I see it. In fact, KLH was the worst for hiding the beauty of the wood. I couldn't believe the awful-looking finish on my Fives, and similar Thirty-Threes, and how much sanding and refinishing improved them. Attached photos show the 33s. The AR2ax also shows a dramatic change. Bear in mind, the original series ARs came in many different finishes. There's a chart from Tom somewhere but the choices included African Mahogany, Birch, American Walnut (clear lacquer OR oiled), Cherry, Teak, Korina and Ponderosa Pine (unfinished). Kent

Thanks Jesse Final update: I got the foam grilles from http://www.foamspeakergrilles.com They came with handy Velcro discs that stick to the front baffle. I used 3 on each long side and 1 about centered. I think they came out very well. The Velcro holds the grilles out a bit. I did not want to hide any wood so the grilles are exactly the size of the opening. If I were to do it again I might make them about 1/8" larger in both dimensions so I wouldn't have to be quite so careful putting them in place. foamspeakergrilles would have taken a speaker and made all the measurements but I did not want to send a speaker out with the perils of 2-way shipping. edit: My second set of KA-1's came with original grilles. You can see them here: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7858 This time I DID send a speaker, along with these new grilles and the originals, to foamspeakergrilles and he made 2 new sets but unfortunately was unable to re-create the original design. He did make the new grilles a bit larger though and they look good. Now I just need the logos. If anyone has one that I could borrow, I'll send it to my engraver and have copies made. Anyone? I need the ones that look like this:http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7728 edit: I did get some repro badges made. If anyone needs some let me know. I installed these in the living room as fronts in a surround system, replacing my venerable AR-4x's. Did not do a side-by side comparison but I think the Cizeks sound better. Kent For those interested in HT: The setup is Main front speakers: Cizek KA-1 Front wide speakers: Minimus 7 with Zilch xo mod* Front high speakers: Home-brew about the size of the Minimus 7 Center: rbh MC 414C (acoustic suspension, MTM configuration)* Sub: VMPS Original sub with Apex Sr. plate amp L&R surrounds: Cambridge Soundworks "Ambiance by Henry Kloss" (a discontinued AS mini monitor with solid oak cabinet) Rear: Cizek HTA Model AR-11 2019 edit: info in red is updated to show current system as of 2019 2023 edit: Front wide speakers are now home-built Hi-Vi B3s speakers built using Zaph Audio's design. Front Center is another Cizek HTA.

Charles: Sorry, my message box was full. I'll PM you. Multi: My engraver told me yesterday that he is sending me a sample. I should have it next week. If you want to PM me your email address I can forward the photo he sent me. It looks good. Kent

Hey Derrick Apparently not. Many ESS speakers apparently had passive radiators. A PR is a second woofer, but with no voice coil or electrical connection--just a big cone that moves in & out, making it seem like the real woofer is bigger and therefore allowing the speaker to go deeper. Your speakers are ported--that hole in front--another method for enhancing bass. Seems like a real good find. You can probably just clean them up and enjoy them. I wonder whether the company might send you some info on your speakers if you contact them. Kent

Welcome to the CSP! Hey, for 20 bucks you can't go wrong! They sure look nice. Is that solid wood trim on the fronts? Looks like rubber surrounds on the woofers, so no hassles there. Do they have passive radiators in back? I remember ESS speakers but know little about them. The Heil Air Motion Transformer (AMT) was their claim to fame. In fact, ESS is still around (or back) and making speaker systems: http://essspeakersusa.com/index.html Parts Express sell replacement parts: http://www.parts-express.com/brand/ess-labs-inc/452 Not exactly New England speakers but we don't discriminate (much) here Also try AudioKarma--there have been a few posts there regarding ESS. Enjoy those speakers and let us know what you think. Kent

At long last I have the 3 and a logos. Started a new thread for them. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7715&st=0&p=96336 Kent

The brass "3" and "a" logos have been shipped and I'm just waiting to get them. Probably Dec 26 or so... Then I'll post photos. The KLH labels are next up--maybe Jan. Hope to have more of the square AR Inc labels then too. Thanks for the interest. Kent

Colin Nice project. Just one caution: Our resident engineer/speaker guru John O'Hanlon has warned against using hot melt glue on film caps--the excessive heat can damage the caps. Better to use cable ties, RTV or Goop. btw--the KLH Model Five is a great speaker. Beautiful looking and sounding. I was underwhelmed with mine until I used a very light coat of Roy's cloth surround sealer on the woofers. Wow! Good luck with those Imperials! Kent

Thanks for more kind words Vern. The woofers have been returned. Bill LeGall (Millersound) did do a beautiful job on both, at a very reasonable cost. He made some improvements: Bill said he set the coil-to-pole-piece height differently than the factory did. Also, the spider is slightly more compliant and the cone material is the best sounding [he] knows of, for this speaker (it has the perfect balance between stiffness and retaining the non-aggressive sound of paper). Normally I take a dim view of "improvements" to classics but if Bill did it you know it was done right! First impression of the restored speakers: Wow! I do want to play with the amount of stuffing, both by ear and also with the Dayton DATS program. Here are some new photos, with the newly reconed woofers. I think the cabinets look great, even though I had to fill two knot holes with brown epoxy (shown in photos). Love the koa wood! The last 2 photos are "before" shots. Big difference! You can see there is a felt ring (from Madisound) around one tweeter. Just experimenting to see whether it improves the sound but I think it does. edit: I removed the felt diffusers and also sliced the external woofer gasket flush with the basket frame so the new foam speaker grilles would fit better. My reference speakers are the AR-3a's (much bigger) and Bozak MB-80s (just slightly smaller). The Cizeks sound more like the ARs! Brighter, even with the damping rings, but "full". By comparison the Bozaks are drier. It's interesting to switch among the three. All sound good but each has its own sound. It should be interesting to put the AR-4x's in the mix. I've ordered new foam grilles in brown with beveled edges and a relief on the back to clear the drivers from this site http://foamspeakergrilles.com/ . They asked me to send them a speaker to fit the foam properly (and offered a nice discount if I did) but I hate to ship these--they're heavy and irreplaceable. Plan to put them in the living room to replace the AR-4x's flanking the TV, so they should have nice grilles just for appearance. Kent

I plan to have more made but don't have any yet. Possibly next month. These will be the smaller aluminum stick-on type. I may also get the larger size, also stick-on aluminum. I cannot supply the heavy cast metal ones used on the Five and Twelve (maybe others). If you are still interested next month please PM me. Kent

Another bump in the road Put the second speaker back together and discovered it had a bad woofer! It read "open" on my ohmmeter. I was so focused on the torn tweeter dome and other issues when I bought these apparently I never checked the woofers! Dumb. Too late to go back to the seller now. This may be a blessing in disguise. I sent both woofers to Bill LeGall (for anyone who doesn't already know, he's a speaker wizard and a really great guy). He'll work his magic on both woofers and return them better than new. Can't wait! Kent

I see no problem adding a plate amp. And you would not need a crossover--it's in the amp. As for the port tubes.... yes, sacrilege.I added an Apex Sr plate amp to my VMPS sub. He has other nice amps here: http://www.apexjr.com/amps.html Kent

Thanks Vern. One is finished. The ugly ring on the bottom is 95% gone and the wood cleaned up nicely. I sanded with an orbital sander, starting with #80 grit and working up to #600. After considering lots of advice on refinishing the koa wood I went with my old stand-by: Minwax Antique Oil. It's similar to Tung oil insofar as it is wiped on but has some varnish or something in it to make it glossy. Applied MANY coats (did not count), sometimes rubbing with steel wool in between. The heavy "Acuthane" front panel was cleaned, polished a little with some automotive rubbing compound, then a coat of Armor-All was applied. The binding posts had been replaced once. I installed new gold-plated ones from Madisound. Had to guess at the stuffing. First I weighed a small package of Johns Manville white fiberglass with a fish scale and found it to be about 10 oz. I cut it in half, figuring 5 oz per speaker. The 5 oz piece was cut into smaller pieces to allow for easier installation. Initial listening tests: Sounded very good but a bit over-damped so I took out some of the fg to bring it down to about 4 oz (which is what John O'Hanlon had suggested in the first place). To my ears, that seems about right. edit: Just opened a 2nd pair of KA-1s and found them tightly stuffed with 9 oz of fiberglass! Will have to go back and play with the stuffing some more! Second listening test: These sound GREAT! I did a comparison with A Bozak MB-80, which is a similar-size high quality mini monitor (see this thread: http://www.classicsp...?showtopic=3870). The Cizek sounds better. Tighter bass, great if somewhat forward mids, sparkling highs. I heard things on a Dire Straits album I'd never heard before! Now I just have to finish the other one and figure out how to fashion a new grille. These are going in the living room! Vern, I agree regarding the dovetail joints. Love those and the thick, solid wood. I have a pair of Cambridge Soundworks Speakers as surrounds that are solid oak with finger-jointed (like square dovetails). Am also using a single Cizek HTA as a single rear channel--no dovetails, but solid oak. Kent

Tubeboob, As Weird Al Yankovic sang: "I found them on ebay." I too had been looking. The ones I ended up buying had several issues (as described above) but I knew they were special. I'm glad the wood looked so dull in the photos. The speakers did not look like much at all. Thanks for the tip re Polk tweeters. I actually did discover that in my research. Also found that early Polks used the Peerless tweets but later ones used Polk-branded tweets that may not be as "good" as the Peerless. Also, both versions of the the Polk tweeters had small holes poked in the silk domes. Anyway, I did find a Peerless on eBay. Next I need grilles (probably can build my own) and logo badges. Until then, the Cizeks look pretty nice "naked." Have been away 2 weeks but hope to get back to the restoration this week. I just ordered some new binding posts. Will guess at the amount of stuffing to use. I figure the Cizek has "about" 1/2 the internal volume as an AR4x. The 4x had 11 oz of fg so I'll try 5 oz and see how it sounds. I'd like to know more about the Model 1. Apparently the 1 and the KA-1 were completely different animals. Thanks for the interest. Kent