b1daly Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 Hi All, this is my first post here! I've inherited my Dad's old L1290s (which I loved back in the day). They still sound pretty great, but I'm questioning the high frequencies. They seem a little "harsher" than I remember them being, from 30 years ago! I do remember they were quite bright when they were new, though. What I'm noticing, is that on recordings with any kind of hyped, exaggerated highs, the tweeter can almost sound distorted...not quite distorted, but it's like I can hear it ringing out, on its own, as if is not integrated with other drivers, or is too loud or something. On smooth recordings, for example the new Radiohead record "A Moon Shaped Pool," they sound fantastic. I've been scanning the forums for any kind of consensus on when/whether the Richard So rebuilds are worth it. For a lot of folks who report a big difference, it seems like they are reporting that the old driver sounded muffled, or obviously distorted. Others who had drivers rebuilt that were just old, report a modest improvement, if any (not a "night and day difference" is often the term used). The reason I don't take that as strong confirmation is because placebo effects are rampant in audio, especially without a comparison close in time. (Even those are highly suspect, IMO, do the vicissitudes of critical listening.) As I am somewhat obsessive, I'm having a hard time deciding what to do...as I listen, if I hear something that sounds harsh, it starts to bug me, almost prevents me from enjoying my listening. One interesting aspect of these speakers: I'm a music producer/recording engineer. One of the hardest things to get right is the high frequency response. Often, my mixes that sound perfect in my studio, will not be bright enough compared to commercial recordings. However, on the L1290s, my mixes sound as I expect. The brightening done in mastering is often pretty drastic, and can easily introduce distortions. So I wonder if part of what I am hearing is the 1290s simply revealing the distortion that is truly present in the recording. Such high frequency distortion is a very challenging signal for a speaker to reproduce in a flattering way. Some speakers are more "forgiving." Anyway, I know it's been talked to death. I just wish I could figure out a way to really test with the tweeters and mids on these 1290s were actually in need of any repair. Thanks for reading! I'd love to hear any other comments on this subject... Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glitch Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 I have also perceived occasional "harshness" from my ADS speakers. I attribute this more to the recording than the speaker. I have a pair of L1290/2 and L880/2 (which use the same tweeter) as well as a pair of L1590/2. All of these exhibit similar behavior. I've removed the drivers from the L1290 & L880 and tested them for consistency. I've also ran the same tests on my matching "spare" tweeters. All of them were fairly consistent. I've also experimented with various ferrofluid replacement with the same tweeters. I was able to make subtle changes to the driver's performance. I doubt that "I" would have been able to tell the difference if I wasn't able to A/B the changes as I was making them. Where I usually notice the harshness is with relatively modern alternative rock where distortion is (intentionally) incorporated as part of the music. One band that come to mind is Bleachers. This music sounds horrible on the ADS's. It is much easier to listen to on other speakers that I own. I can't really comment on the sonic performance for the Richard So rebuilds. I'm really curious if anyone has ever tested their drivers before and after sending them to Richard. I've asked this in the past but never got any replies. One thing that I have noticed about the rebuilds is that they sometimes come back looking like they have cataracts. I don't know if this is how they really look in person or is an anomaly from flash photography. That said, I don't recall ever reading about anyone being unhappy with a Richard So rebuild. I would expect that the failure mode for these tweeters would be from the ferrofluid degrading. My experience with ferrofluid (from non ADS speakers) is that it becomes more viscous and the driver starts to sound dull. I suppose that if it dried up completely, the driver would be underdamped and this could cause harshness. You could check the ferrofluid by removing the top plate from the tweeter. The downside to this is you would need to realign the voice coil when you put it back together. Also, you would likely leave witness marks in the paint by the mounting screws. I guess how you proceed depends on how much the "distortion" bugs you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glitch Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 edit: removed double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofreak Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 It might help us help you if you listed the associated electronics you are using with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batchman Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 This speaker line was a pretty common studio reference in its' day. First thing to check to my mind is the crossover, there is a tweeter pad switch. Many many recordings can sound pretty harsh if the tweets are not padded. My experience with this vintage ADS tweets is they either turn to mud or blow (thankfully rare). Of my many sets I've only had two driver problems, a woofer that I "hurt" and a tweeter that came in DOA. I sent that tweeter to Richard So and was not impressed with the result. It left here as a sticky dome in an ADS original tweeter cover, came back as the black rubber dome in a different cover. It does not sound right, not criminal for my use (this set is rear surrounds) but the difference vs its' mate in a room correction white noise test is substantial. Frankly if I'd known my original tweeter cover wouldn't come back, I would not have sent the part - it was from the only set I'd bought new and otherwise still have complete packing and docs etc. Cheers, - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 11 hours ago, batchman said: This speaker line was a pretty common studio reference in its' day. First thing to check to my mind is the crossover, there is a tweeter pad switch. Many many recordings can sound pretty harsh if the tweets are not padded. My experience with this vintage ADS tweets is they either turn to mud or blow (thankfully rare). Of my many sets I've only had two driver problems, a woofer that I "hurt" and a tweeter that came in DOA. I sent that tweeter to Richard So and was not impressed with the result. It left here as a sticky dome in an ADS original tweeter cover, came back as the black rubber dome in a different cover. It does not sound right, not criminal for my use (this set is rear surrounds) but the difference vs its' mate in a room correction white noise test is substantial. Frankly if I'd known my original tweeter cover wouldn't come back, I would not have sent the part - it was from the only set I'd bought new and otherwise still have complete packing and docs etc. Cheers, - Jeff I'm quite surprise Richard would repair a tweeter this way. Did you ask him why the different dome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batchman Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 7:50 AM, GD70 said: I'm quite surprise Richard would repair a tweeter this way. Did you ask him why the different dome? It was some time ago (as was your question, sorry!) but I think the sticky vs "rubber" was simply availability. I do see that as the style in the newer 3/4" tweeter boxes. I presume when he does what he does the original can't be re-used. Guess I should not be surprised if it changes the sound. As to the shipping cover, I'm still pissed at that too. Of course, it should not matter as I'm the only one who would care and that set of 980s will be mine in the next life too, if I can help it... Had I known either of these things would/could happen, I would have not sent it and just kept shopping for correct used replacement. I am patient, at least on that sort of thing. In fact, I still watch for spares... Cheers, - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1daly Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 It’s been a while since I posted this, just wanted follow up and thank the helpful commenters! i haven’t done anything with these speakers, but I just won a bid on that auction site for another pair of L1290s that also come with a complete set of extra drivers. (Haven’t told my wife yet, ha ha.) So at least if I decide to do the Richard So route, or experiment with replacing the ferrofluid I will have a reference. Ill post some results if I have anything to report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1daly Posted December 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 FOllowing up for anyone interested. I had the tweeters and midrange for the 1290s rebuilt by Richard So. The result was a vastly improved sound. The harshness is gone from tweeters, and some from midrange too. They sound “smoother” than I ever remember them. I have listed to a range of music and it’s very enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batchman Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Glad it went well for you, there were folks "in the day" who felt the 1290s produced better imaging than the 1590s due to the narrower width. Cheers, - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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