fast_eddie_72 Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Hey gang. I'm helping a friend put together a stereo. Been looking at craigslist ads for a decent pair of speakers. Primarily looking for ARs, of course. Thought I might find some 5s for a good price, but these came along and we decided to go for it. I believe these are AR3a Improved? I don't know much about them other than they look a little different. Sound great. Foam was redone, but there are some issues. I may have to do it again. Pots need to be done, of course. Grill frames may be original, but the cloth is wrong. They sound good, but I think they would benefit from some new caps. All the drivers work. They sound darn good just as they are, honestly. But they'll get even better. I'd appreciate any info on what, exactly, they are and advice on the needed jobs. Particularly grill cloth. I believe there's an appropriate material I could use. Also curious - are these worth any less than a typical 3a?Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 I did find this thread. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=895These have pots, so they're European made AR3as? Kind of interesting. Wonder how they made their way here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tarelli Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 HiI have two pairs of 3a improved. One had the standard linen but the other came with the brown. I believe it was an option here in the UK. Both mine have now had the 123 stitch treatment and look great. Also it may be rare to find them with pots I have never seen any till yours! I found mine sounded rather harsh in the midrange and it was Roy who suggested a re-cap. Thanks again Roy because it sorted everything. They had film caps throughout.They are fabulous speakers and well found. Now how did they get there........?Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Thank you Mike. As I was typing that I thougth maybe I shouldn't be too hasty to say the grills aren't right. I've just never seen them, which doesn't mean a lot. Looking at them this morning, if they were redone, they were done well. I didn't really give them much investigation yesterday since I just assumed they were wrong. Is it possible these are, indeed, original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 After having a better look, I think it's best to re-do the foam. One of them was leaking badly enough to hear it. So I pulled it for a better look. Whatever glue was used didn't bond to the Masonite ring. The glue came off in a single string. I could just reglue the outside edge, but the cone side was glued to the back of the cone instead of the front. You can see the foam doesn't sit properly on the outside with the cone side done wrong. And the other speaker has a small tear in the foam. Probably a slip of a screwdriver when being installed. It all adds up to new foam. I haven't dug into them yet to see what caps are in them, but I have to say, with the level controls cajoled into working a bit, they sound really good. I think whatever is in them is still doing it's job just fine, so I'm going to leave them alone. I suspect I'll find the Compulytic caps. I've read many references to them holding up well. I've personally had to replace them, so I know it's not always the case. But these speakers sound great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tarelli Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Yes they are original. Apart from my 3a improved I also have a pair of AR 6 which arrived with the same brown (horrible) cloth. Lots of staples,lots of fun! They are also 123 stitch improved. Go with Roy,replace the caps! The AR-3a restoration document covers it all. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Yes they are original. Apart from my 3a improved I also have a pair of AR 6 which arrived with the same brown (horrible) cloth.Lots of staples,lots of fun! They are also 123 stitch improved. Go with Roy,replace the caps!The AR-3a restoration document covers it all.MikeI've been spending quality time with the guide once again this afternoon. Getting everything figured out before I start ordering parts.I'll measure the caps and replace if they need it. My ears say they may be good. I'll think on it. It might be a good idea to do them while I'm working on them to insure that they continue to work well down the road. I did decide to order some ERSE L Pads to replace the level controls, once again, to ensure long term reliability. I'll include the originals when I deliver the speakers. I may even try to find a way to store them inside the cabinets for a future restoration. Thank you for confirming that the cloth is original. I think my friend would prefer the more "classic" look of a linen grill. I found the appropriate 18 count linen, but I don't like the idea of taking the original cloth off of the original frame. I'm going to advise him to buy complete replacement grills and store these safely somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tarelli Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Hope I didn't put you off with my "lots of staples" comment. I merely meant in removing the cloth. I have recovered my AR collection with linen just using Copydex, a fabric/hobby glue. Worked with my LST, 2x 3a improved, 2x 6, 7 and don't tell anyone, AR 11 and 18s !Just pulled the linen as tight as possible then spritzed them with water. No failures.Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 No, Mike, not at all. I would just hate to destroy the original grills when they're in very good condition. Especially when you can just buy something new that will give the owner the look he wants without messing them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundminded Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 There's something peculiar about the woofers. The straight edges of the woofers are mounted on the top and bottom, not on the sides. The cabinet must be slightly wider than the standard version for this to be possible??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 There's something peculiar about the woofers. The straight edges of the woofers are mounted on the top and bottom, not on the sides. The cabinet must be slightly wider than the standard version for this to be possible???Yeah, and all the pics I can find of the European versions have them oriented in the more typical way. But yes, without the older style wide frame, the woofers can mount either way. I'll put them in the more expected orientation after I foam them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tarelli Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Interesting that the 3a improved allows an alternative woofer possibility, unlike the 3a. Says much about the original that I have never seen that particular heresy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I got a call from the seller last night. He found the serial number papers that should be on the backs. Is there a preferred glue for reattaching them? I'm kind of thinking maybe a spray adhesive. One is in very good shape. The other has a small section missing, but flattened out a bit, it's actually in fine shape. Nice to have them and nice of the seller to take a minute to get them to me. Quite a few parts on their way. Foam kit, caps, L Pads, resistors. I should have these working perfectly before long. Very easy spruce up on this pair. They're in nice shape and all the drivers are working. Just getting them tip top before getting them to my friend. He's going to be very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tarelli Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 Interesting that they are AR3 papers, possibly because they refer to the pot settings. AR3a improved usually have their own printed heading and details about the two way switch. There again they might just have been to hand!.I decided with mine the papers had suffered enough and laminated them. Then just used four little pieces of blu tac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Interesting that they are AR3 papers, possibly because they refer to the pot settings. AR3a improved usually have their own printed heading and details about the two way switch. There again they might just have been to hand!.I decided with mine the papers had suffered enough and laminated them. Then just used four little pieces of blu tac.Mike, The speakers are European style AR-3a's, not the later AR-3a Improved, and the "international" labels confirm it. (btw, the grill cloth is original). The later, short-lived "3a Improved" simply used the Euro style cabinet.The person who did the re-foam apparently forgot which way the woofers were originally installed. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Mike, The speakers are European style AR-3a's, not the later AR-3a Improved, and the "international" labels confirm it. (btw, the grill cloth is original). The later, short-lived "3a Improved" simply used the Euro style cabinet.The person who did the re-foam apparently forgot which way the woofers were originally installed. RoyOr, perhaps, was hoping that putting the rip on the new surround at the bottom, it would go unnoticed. It wasn't a great job overall. Both new foams installed and woofers working great. I'll get the caps and l pads installed tomorrow. I did get the resistors for the l pads as recommended by the guide. Yeah, when I got them without any paperwork on the back I wasn't sure what they were. It wasn't until I did a bit of research here that I realized they were European 3as, not Improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 A few pics of my progress. Yes, I use Elmer's glue. It works great for refoamig speakers. I've never felt a need for anything more fancy. That little blue tool is awesome. It's a plexiglass cutting tool. The small blade is great for scraping cones and baskets. And with the cap on, it's a great tool for pressing in surrounds as the glue starts to set up. One woofer was dated April 17 1973, the other April 18. Pretty neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ligs Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Great job with the use of cloth hangers for centering!!! I was able to refoaming all 18 drivers from Bose 901 using the cloth hanger trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_eddie_72 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 One of them is finished. I used the pictures and information in this thread to figure out the L Pad wiring. That saved me some head scratching. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=5184One cap fit in one of the original mounts. I attached the other two with 3M double sided foam tape. They're not going anywhere. (The small one is yet to be stuck in place in the pic.) I left the wax cap in place. I figured it's not hurting anything. I think I'm happy with the result. Pretty clean job I think. Hope my friend is happy. I'm listening to them now and they sound great, even with only one done. Of course there has to be one hang up. A minor one - I only ordered two of the resistors. Just wasn't thinking. I'll order two more and get the other speaker done. Almost there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tarelli Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Thanks Roy. Please put it down to old age! Sorry everyone! Mike, The speakers are European style AR-3a's, not the later AR-3a Improved, and the "international" labels confirm it. (btw, the grill cloth is original). The later, short-lived "3a Improved" simply used the Euro style cabinet.The person who did the re-foam apparently forgot which way the woofers were originally installed. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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