AR's to avoid

[Joel]

I would like to put together a decent system for my daughter. I am going to take my time and watch craigslist and thrift stores.

Are there any particular AR speakers to avoid? What are the most desirable speakers I am likely to find? I am assuming they will need some restoration. What kind of price range can I expect?

Thanks.

-Joel

[ar_pro]

Assuming you're discussing the 25-50 year-old designs, and not the boxes which merely carry an "AR" badge, it would be easier to suggest what you probably should look for.

The AR-4 variants are the easiest to rehab, being a 2-way, 8" system with a single level control and a pair of robust drivers.

They have a nicely balanced sound, with that famous AR low frequency response - a restored AR-4 system is also a very good-looking speaker.

You can expect to pay about $100 for a pair in fine condition (no cabinet damage, undistorted output from all of the drivers), from a reasonable local owner who isn't using the highest eBay price as a guide.

The 3-way AR systems will generally be more expensive (as well as larger & heavier), and repairs are more involved.

The most desirable AR systems?

AR-9, AR-LST, AR-90, AR-91, AR-11, AR-10pi, AR-3a, AR-3, AR-1, AR-5, AR-2ax, etc., etc., etc...

[Joel]

Is there anyway to know from the model number which are the modern AR's, and which are the classics? For example, there is a AR-28 listed on craigslist at the moment- would that be from the classic line?

I don't mind the larger AR's. My daughter has plenty of room in her apartment. I don't mind spending money if I get something of value. I've also got plenty of time to look- I just don't want to have to chase down every speaker I find that has the AR name on it.

Your list of "desirables" is very helpful.

-Joel

Assuming you're discussing the 25-50 year-old designs, and not the boxes which merely carry an "AR" badge, it would be easier to suggest what you probably should look for.

The AR-4 variants are the easiest to rehab, being a 2-way, 8" system with a single level control and a pair of robust drivers.

They have a nicely balanced sound, with that famous AR low frequency response - a restored AR-4 system is also a very good-looking speaker.

You can expect to pay about $100 for a pair in fine condition (no cabinet damage, undistorted output from all of the drivers), from a reasonable local owner who isn't using the highest eBay price as a guide.

The 3-way AR systems will generally be more expensive (as well as larger & heavier), and repairs are more involved.

The most desirable AR systems?

AR-9, AR-LST, AR-90, AR-91, AR-11, AR-10pi, AR-3a, AR-3, AR-1, AR-5, AR-2ax, etc., etc., etc...

[michiganpat]

28s, B, or BXi? they're the sucessors of the 4/4x/4xa/17, an 8" 2 way...they're probably vinyl veneer (the S's *might* be real wood)....a great speaker, an AR18 in a larger box for a little deeper bass.

personally, IMHO, there's no bad AR speaker until after the bankruptcy in ~'05....I have some post teledyne AR312HO's and they rock.

for a small room, the AR18's are wonderful sounding little speakers.

[deek]

The AR18S and AR18BX are poor substitutes for the "real thing" and what makes them imposters is that they look very much like the AR18, which is a great speaker. eBay is sodden with these units and people often don't specify that they're S or BX models.

You can identify them by the woofer cone, which is plastic. The reason they're not very good speakers in my opinion is the poor build quality and the tweeter selection. They sound harsh and hollow to my ears. An AR18 is the smallest "full range" speaker that really impresses me. The 17 is a better choice if you can find them because they are true walnut veneer and a larger cabinet giving a better low-end. (The 18 is vinyl covered, but it's high-quality and generally holds up well.)

Good luck! You'll never go wrong with the verticals series and the most important thing is to find a pair that is original and in good shape. Rehabilitation is generally not that difficult if you start there. If you buy a basket case, you may run out of steam before they're finished!

-Deek

[Robert_S]

The AR18S and AR18BX are poor substitutes for the "real thing"

I think you are mistaken in thinking the AR-18s is an inferior sounding speaker when compared to the AR-18 (or you've mixed up your suffixes).

For some related discussion, the following topic/posts may be of interest:

"The 18 or 18s is the model you want. The 18B is ok, but stay far away from the BX and BXi."

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4332&view=findpost&p=73221

Letter suffix combos

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=5983&view=findpost&p=85106

AR Rock Partners

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=351&view=findpost&p=63244

Hope that clarifies!

Robert_S

[deek]

Yes, sorry, I meant the 18B. Something more than the tweeter position changed in the "B"... they sound very different to my ears than the 18's I've owned. Perhaps something in the crossover or cabinet?

-Deek

[michiganpat]

the tweeter is the same in the B as the 18/18s, other than it has a metal grille over it....IIRC the cap changed from a 6uf to a 5uf on the B, which raises the highpass a bit.

[Joel]

I found someone on local CL that has a set of AR3 speakers. The ad says that one speaker is a AR3, the other is a AR3a. Is it a good idea to use those two speakers as a pair? Also, he is asking $500. Is that too much? He says they are in "perfect" conditon.

This is the text of the actual ad:

"AR 3 in great shape. These speakers were purchased from the original owner who first purchased an original AR 3 as many folks only needed one speaker for running a mono system so later he added an AR 3a which is a near perfect sonic match. They are untouched and sound amazing. 500 for the set. These do not need any service"

Are these worthy of consideration?

-Joel

[dynaco_dan]

I found someone on local CL that has a set of AR3 speakers. The ad says that one speaker is a AR3, the other is a AR3a. Is it a good idea to use those two speakers as a pair? Also, he is asking $500. Is that too much? He says they are in "perfect" conditon.

This is the text of the actual ad:

"AR 3 in great shape. These speakers were purchased from the original owner who first purchased an original AR 3 as many folks only needed one speaker for running a mono system so later he added an AR 3a which is a near perfect sonic match. They are untouched and sound amazing. 500 for the set. These do not need any service"

Are these worthy of consideration?

-Joel

Hi there

I have quite a bit of experience buying off the internet.

People sometimes stretch the truth a little bit, sometimes quite a bit.

An AR-3 is not a perfect match with any other speaker, nor is the AR-3A.

A near sound match may be stretching it even.

They will be close in sound, mind you, but if your hearing is normal, you will hear a difference.

They use the same woofer and enclosure size and everything else is quite different.

The AR-3 may have the earlier Alnico magnet and The AR-3A could also or several versions down the road.

They used different tweeters and mid drivers which crossed over at different frequencies.

Back in the days, AR would upgrade an AR-3 to AR-3A status for a fee.

There was a lot of work and shipping them was critical and expensive.

There is every possibility that you or someone else could do a similar conversion for perhaps $200.00 - $300.00+/-.

They have the same hole sizes and bolt pattern.

The AR-3A type drivers would either be compatible and used, or new and somewhat similar sounding to the originals, but not too close.

The AR-3 has a classic grille cloth, very difficult to remove the plastic frame without breaking it, and is not available today and the AR-3A has a new clone or

2 available on the net.

In a matched pair either one could be considered very desirable, but sonicly mismatched you may find it difficult to ignore.

Be careful when someone says that they modified them, replaced or cleaned the pots, etc, even the top members here have difficulties doing them at times.

As far as the asking price, I can't comment now.

If you already had a mismatched pair, then no question.

The ad seems evasive of the speaker mismatch detail.

My eyebrows are raised also at the, "does not need any service" comment.

If you do a local pickup at least there won't be any shipping expense or damage.

[Joel]

I am finding out that AR's are a lot harder to find than I thought. I am finding some of the other brands that have sections in this forum. I have found a ADS L630, and an original Advent Large. I haven't heard them yet- Are these good speakers? How will they compare to my AR90's?

-Joel

[RoyC]

I am finding out that AR's are a lot harder to find than I thought. I am finding some of the other brands that have sections in this forum. I have found a ADS L630, and an original Advent Large. I haven't heard them yet- Are these good speakers? How will they compare to my AR90's?

-Joel

Joel,

Both of those speakers have good reputations.

I have a number of restored and soon-to-be restored AR speakers. Send me a PM if I can be of assistance.

Roy