How many pairs of AR90's were made?

[Allen]

Hi all,

After listening to the beautiful sound generated by a pair of AR90's (powered by Hafler amp and Hafler pre-amp) whenever I visited a mate's place here in Sydney, Australia, who bought his new in the early 1980's, all I ever wanted in the way of hi fi speakers was a pair of AR90's. Rightly or wrongly, nothing else would ever do, plain and simple.

Thirty years later, with his help as he spotted them for sale on the website of a shop only 8 km or so from where I live, amazingly enough, I finally got a pair. Professionally refoamed by the former owner who in fact repairs all the hi fi gear at the shop I bought them from, they are in absolute mint condition, and have matching serial numbers (or did the shop owner say they were consecutive? I haven't bothered to check - too heavy for me to move about just now and I ain't gunna do my back in again like I did when I carried them into the house from my car!). Even though I only have an Onkyo Integra 80W RMS per channel amp to power them with (I am waiting to get a nice retro amp and pre-amp to come up for sale here, preferably Hafler) they sound amazing. Unbelievable luck.

I cheerfully paid AUD$1500 for them, and that was after getting the price down from the asking price of AUD$1800. The only other pair of AR 90's my mate and I have ever seen for sale here, and which must have been at least 10 years ago, were on offer for AUD$2000, and I had to pass them up as at the time I could not afford to pay that much.

While there seems to be quite a few AR90's in the U.S. and Canada, and presumably also in the U.K., and explains how relatively cheaply they sell for in the U.S., though perhaps most of the real cheapies are in need of considerable repair, it appears that very few AR90's ever made it here to Australia. My mate had to get a big loan when he bought his, I think he paid AUD1800 in about 1982, about the price of a small car at the time! I was told by the retro hi fi place I bought mine from, after I bought them mind you, that they had never sold a pair of AR90's before, mine were the first they had ever come across (their own repairman had them, and, I am told, only sold them as needed the space and he had gotten a pair of AR910's, whatever they are), and they estimated there might only be five pairs in Australia in total.

So my two questions are, if anyone might know, how many pairs of AR90's were ever made, and does anyone have any idea how many pairs might still exist, and of those, how many pairs might still exist in the U.S., but especially in Australia?

I am no hi fi buff and I no longer have great hearing, but I am at least now, at long last, a very happy owner of a top-notch pair of AR90's!

Happy listening and many thanks for any info!

Allen

[rrcrain]

I keep hoping for a reply to your question as well. I still own the pair of AR90s I bought new about 1981. I've listened to many speakers since then but have yet to hear anything I'm willing to plunk down money for to replace what I already have.

[Allen]

Many kind thanks for the reply Richard. I absolutely agree - when Nirvanna is found, why leave?!!

Well it seems I either have viewers stumped as to my questions - else they think I am being frivolous! Surely there must be some ex-employee (or owner??) of Acoustic Research who might have a pretty good idea?

Alternatively, perhaps the serial numbers on the speakers can provide some idea of at least the number of pairs of AR 90 that were made? I have just found (duhhh!) that the serial number is on the cabinets at the front under the cloth grill, and mine are numbered 'AR AU 8043' and 'AR AU 8044' (thus presumably a matched pair, as the numbers are consecutive and the lowest number of the pair is, correctly, an odd number, assuming that the first pair of AR's sold were 0001 and 0002 and this number series is unbroken). Does this mean there were at least 4000 pairs of AR 90's made, or does it mean that at least 4000 pairs of all kinds of AR speakers were made (in both the U.S. and the U.K.?), or what?

Perhaps if people posted the serial numbers of their speakers (all AR's, not just AR90's) in this thread we can eventually figure this out, unless of course someone who knows can kindly please advise?

BTW, again after I bought mine, I was advised that they will likely go up in price, as the 'Y' generation in particular is getting older and wiser and desperate to find top-notch speakers at reasonably affordable prices. Well that may be so and that's great but personally I did not buy them for their 'investment' potential. I simply wanted them for their incredible sound quality and will never sell them - nor will my mate ever be selling his! Hey, maybe that's why they are hardly ever seen for sale here..maybe there are actually lots of AR 90 owners here in Oz who are extremely reluctant to ever sell them!

Cheers!

Allen

[dynaco_dan]

Well it seems I either have viewers stumped as to my questions - else they think I am being frivolous! Surely there must be some ex-employee (or owner??) of Acoustic Research who might have a pretty good idea?

Alternatively, perhaps the serial numbers on the speakers can provide some idea of at least the number of pairs of AR 90 that were made? I have just found (duhhh!) that the serial number is on the cabinets at the front under the cloth grill, and mine are numbered 'AR AU 8043' and 'AR AU 8044' (thus presumably a matched pair, as the numbers are consecutive and the lowest number of the pair is, correctly, an odd number, assuming that the first pair of AR's sold were 0001 and 0002 and this number series is unbroken). Does this mean there were at least 4000 pairs of AR 90's made, or does it mean that at least 4000 pairs of all kinds of AR speakers were made (in both the U.S. and the U.K.?), or what?

Perhaps if people posted the serial numbers of their speakers (all AR's, not just AR90's) in this thread we can eventually figure this out, unless of course someone who knows can kindly please advise?

BTW, again after I bought mine, I was advised that they will likely go up in price, as the 'Y' generation in particular is getting older and wiser and desperate to find top-notch speakers at reasonably affordable prices. Well that may be so and that's great but personally I did not buy them for their 'investment' potential. I simply wanted them for their incredible sound quality and will never sell them - nor will my mate ever be selling his! Hey, maybe that's why they are hardly ever seen for sale here..maybe there are actually lots of AR 90 owners here in Oz who are extremely reluctant to ever sell them!

Cheers!

Allen

Hi Allen

There has been more than once, when I have thought, "why is there no production quantities list, serial number breakdowns, dates that are not cryptic, etc, etc, etc".

The truth is, we are decades away from their manufacture, the companies have moved, change of ownership, files were thrown out, intentionly or accidently,

blueprints also, inter office and service depots memos destroyed, and employees and founders have moved on to other jobs.

I believe that after Henry KLoss passed away, someone went into his home to clean out everything, likely for re-sale or other reason and

samples and early prototypes, etc, were thrown in the dumpster, history gone forever.

Being an employee in that industry did not mean they lived and breathed hifi, after 4:30.

When 4:30 comes, "I don't want to hear or see anything hifi", may have been a comment spoken more than once.

If we could have a survery of past and present hifi industry employees, likely some woud have a minimal stero system, or not at all, at their home.

There likely is not more than a handful of members here that were ever employed in the hifi manufacturing industry.

Ken Kantor, is probably the most likely member here who has tremendous knowledge and on the job skills.

His credits are similar to the, late Henry Kloss, in my opinion.

When the the AR Chronological list was being revised, I was suggesting each variation be noted.

What I was suggesting would be a major project and a neverending project, it might be updated daily and there would never

be an end to that task.

An example of what I was suggesting is, for the AR-LST, speaker system, for just one discussion now.

The lowest and highest recorded serial number of each variation would be noted.

This would be helpful only if the factory used consecutive serial numbers.

This would include the front installed crossover and the rear mounted version.

Who wants mismatched cabinet exteriors?

Another variation to be noted is, highest to lowest serial number of the capacitor changeover.

Ditto switch changeover.

Ditto resistor bypass.

I may have missed an issue or not.

The AR-2AX, AR-3, and AR-3A, popular then and now, are prime examples of no model change and in some cases, no tranformation

serial number, date, quantity and drivers change data.

Permanent serial numbers on all equipment and a readable date should have and be very prominently displayed on the cabinets exterior.

The stickers and stapled papers just have not been a good reliable consistantly historical documentation, as we should expect, as owners.

AR was not the only company to do this.

I know that this would have added to the cost of the production of speakers.

There is not a detailed breakdown list anywhere of the above, that I have read, so far.

Some of my comments may seem real petty but if you owned or were trying to bid or just buy a pair, of LST's, you would likely

want them matching as close as possible.

Just a thought for today.

[Kuja]

Mine are AR90 L 010732 and AR90 L 010733.

They were sold in Belgrade, Yugoslavia (now Serbia)

Later style badges on the screen frames - only AR logo in a square, no "90" model number.

Later tweeter model - small silver ring around the dome.

[Allen]

Gidday all

Many thanks for the excellent replies. The body of knowledge builds with each post, but alas so much is gone as well. Many kind thanks Vern for your especially detailed and comprehensive overiew of what happened at the end there. Hopefully more AR owners will post their serial numbers and any other info they can recall about AR.

I am wondering if the AU in my serial numbers simply means "Australia"?

Thanks for that interesting bit of info from the last post!My AR 90's must be a later series then, as they only have the AR logo, no '90', while my mates pair does. Removing the cloth grill on mine reveals they are indeed AR90's though. The middle front speaker has a large silver ring, but I can't see any on the top one, the tweeter, as it is surrounded by a heavy felt blanket with a hole cut out like a star for the sound.

Anyone have any ideas when the later AR 90 versions were made?

Interestingly, when I bought my AR 90's, I was also given the two original instruction manuals they came with, and they are in mint condition too. My mate also has his two manuals "somewhere', and, wait for it, under his house he still has the original (and, he says, 'monstrous!') cardboard boxes they were packed in!

I have just found out that a workmate has a pair of 3A's, and he has only recently bought new speakers, as he says that "technology finally caught up and overtook them". It took decades to do so! He wants to sell them. I am not in the market for them but I was wondering if the 3A's be tarted up to sound as good as whatever brand he recenty bought?. I'll find out what he bought to replace them with.

Cheers!

Allen

[soundminded]

Gidday all

Many thanks for the excellent replies. The body of knowledge builds with each post, but alas so much is gone as well. Many kind thanks Vern for your especially detailed and comprehensive overiew of what happened at the end there. Hopefully more AR owners will post their serial numbers and any other info they can recall about AR.

I am wondering if the AU in my serial numbers simply means "Australia"?

Thanks for that interesting bit of info from the last post!My AR 90's must be a later series then, as they only have the AR logo, no '90', while my mates pair does. Removing the cloth grill on mine reveals they are indeed AR90's though. The middle front speaker has a large silver ring, but I can't see any on the top one, the tweeter, as it is surrounded by a heavy felt blanket with a hole cut out like a star for the sound.

Anyone have any ideas when the later AR 90 versions were made?

Interestingly, when I bought my AR 90's, I was also given the two original instruction manuals they came with, and they are in mint condition too. My mate also has his two manuals "somewhere', and, wait for it, under his house he still has the original (and, he says, 'monstrous!') cardboard boxes they were packed in!

I have just found out that a workmate has a pair of 3A's, and he has only recently bought new speakers, as he says that "technology finally caught up and overtook them". It took decades to do so! He wants to sell them. I am not in the market for them but I was wondering if the 3A's be tarted up to sound as good as whatever brand he recenty bought?. I'll find out what he bought to replace them with.

Cheers!

Allen

These speakers were part of an evolutionary process. AR90 was an evolution from AR5 while AR9 was an evolutionary step from AR3a, the larger speakers coming about 15 to 20 years later. AR5 itself was an evolution past AR2Ax.

One problem with AR3a and to a lesser degree AR5 is in the transition between the woofer and the midrange driver. AR3a evolved from AR3 by using an improved midrange dome that allowed the crossover frequency to drop about an octave from 1 khz to around 575 hz. In this region AR3's woofer had a somewhat irregular response. AR3a also used an improved tweeter which was 3/4" instead of 1 ". Both had hemispherical domes that are not recessed for excellent HF dispersion even by today's standards. Over 50 years later, it's still hard to beat the original AR1W woofer's LF performance which found its way into all later TOTL AR speakers ending I think with AR9 which used 2 of them. AR90 evolved similarly from the lower cost 10" version.

AR9 and AR90 dealt with the woofer midrange transition problem boldly and effectively by introducing a lower midrange driver for this frequency region, doubling the number of woofers with a corresponding increase in cabinet volume and restricting them to frequencies below 200 Hz. They also effectively incorporated Roy Allison's research results by side firing the woofers to take advantage of boundary reinforcement. Tim Holl's account of AR9 in the library also explains the clever transition from the woofers to the lower midrange.

Where AR3a's shortcomings are most in evidence IMO is its high frequency response. Output is somewhat rolled off and not in balance to the rest of the system. Some call this "laid back" I call it a muffled or muted sound. This problem is easily corrected today with judicious equalization. When properly balanced this way, AR3a should prove as AR2ax did for me that it remains an outstanding reproducer and shouldn't be overlooked if there is a buying opportunity. When restored and optimized, it should give many far more expensive contemporary front firing box speakers even with outboard subwoofers a run for their money.

[dynaco_dan]

Gidday all

Many thanks for the excellent replies. The body of knowledge builds with each post, but alas so much is gone as well. Many kind thanks Vern for your especially detailed and comprehensive overiew of what happened at the end there. Hopefully more AR owners will post their serial numbers and any other info they can recall about AR.

I am wondering if the AU in my serial numbers simply means "Australia"?

I have just found out that a workmate has a pair of 3A's, and he has only recently bought new speakers, as he says that "technology finally caught up and overtook them". It took decades to do so! He wants to sell them. I am not in the market for them but I was wondering if the 3A's be tarted up to sound as good as whatever brand he recenty bought?. I'll find out what he bought to replace them with.

Cheers!

Allen

G'day mate

I've always wanted to say that.

The AR-3A was one of the very best Acoustic Suspension speaker systems in the world, at it's peak, warts and all.

The AR literature that was among the many that they published or created included, very graciously I might add,

the second best AS speaker systems name, the much physically larger KLH Twelve speaker system.

You certainly don't see that too often, if at all.

Any speaker that can proudly claim to be the best of anything or even in the top 10 is pretty good in my book.

My AR amplifier's serial number starts with the same AU.

The AR-3A cannot be tarted up to sound like a new speaker system, they still provide a smooth sounding, wide range and

non-fatiging sound output.

The overall impression that I have had all my hifi life is, classic AR speakers are bass heavy and treble shy, I love them.

I've owned a pair of AR-3A's since 1970 and I would love to continue to listen to them for only another 40 years.

I also have the AR-LST's, when I first had a demo pair in my home, my impression was, the LST's were twice as good and also twice the price of the 3A's.

[Allen]

G'day mate to you to, Vern!!

I think you are right - 'bass heavy, treble shy'. Doesn't worry me one bit - just love that bass!! I just got home from work and, laptop on my lap, as I write this I'm listening to Kate Bush's simply brilliant "Aerial" on my AR 90's right now (CD 1 that is) . Amazing, softly rounded, deep 'comforting' bass that I could, strangely enough, happily listen to forever! Pure quality.

I might have to chase up those AR3a's I mentioned!

Cheers!

Allen

[genek]

I have just found out that a workmate has a pair of 3A's, and he has only recently bought new speakers, as he says that "technology finally caught up and overtook them". It took decades to do so! He wants to sell them. I am not in the market for them but I was wondering if the 3A's be tarted up to sound as good as whatever brand he recenty bought?. I'll find out what he bought to replace them with.

Your best bet is to either get an equalizer and experiment, or if you're not that intent on matching a particular sound and just want generically brighter, try turning up the treble about +3dB. Or, just disconnect the tweeter jumper and use the 3a as a subwoofer with a pair of smaller models from the same brand your friend bought.

[dynaco_dan]

G'day mate to you to, Vern!!

I think you are right - 'bass heavy, treble shy'. Doesn't worry me one bit - just love that bass!! I just got home from work and, laptop on my lap, as I write this I'm listening to Kate Bush's simply brilliant "Aerial" on my AR 90's right now (CD 1 that is) . Amazing, softly rounded, deep 'comforting' bass that I could, strangely enough, happily listen to forever! Pure quality.

Comparing the AR sound to the west coast sound will be obvious on a longer listening session.

The west coast sound in a showroom usually sounds brighter and better for the short term.

I guarantee, with your taste, that if you were to buy the AR-3A's, you would never be disatisfied with their sound.

I might have to chase up those AR3a's I mentioned!

Cheers!

Allen

Hi again Allen

I feel that that AR-3A's voice can be altered by tri-amping.

I have never experimented with this idea nor have I heard or read of any such mods.

The setup could be variable but by boosting the mids and highs excessively, this may or may not be to our liking.

Also 2 additional amplifiers adds to that cost, plus rewiring, etc.

The existing crossover and speaker connections are not compatible with this thought.

Bi-amping is possible though, with the woofer being run by one amplifier and another amplifier for the mids and tweeter, just by removing the external jumper wire.

The Heathkit AS-103/AR-3A speaker kit manual only mentioned that, bi-amping was an option, no further comment or details were mentioned.

Their manual also included a drawing breakdown of the drivers and crossover circuitry.

Gene's equilizer is much cheaper and easier to use setup.

A used good quality older classic equilizer can be bought at a reasonable price today.

A better quality equilizer has more channel frequncies adjustments than a cheaper 4 or 5 band model.

If nothing else, Allen, do yourself a favour and see if you can have a listening session with the AR-3A's.

Touch and listen to a piece of history, the opportunity to do so may not come along that often.

Be certain that the speaker level controls are up fully and note the driving equipment and most important, the room characteristics.

[Allen]

Hi Vern, and "Genek", and all who have posted!

Many thanks again for your kind responses, all very much appreciated.

However I'm not sure if my damaged hearing would make the effort of listening to some 3a's or any other speakers worthwhile, as my hearing was damaged when in March 2010, about a week after having had a gall bladder removal operation, I started having all of the symptom's of Menier's Disease except for the vertigo. No known cause, no effective treatment, no cure. I suspected the effects of the general anaesthetic, but unprovable, and could only be a co-incidence. The noises, loss of low frequency and distorted hearing in the speech frequencies nearly drove me crazy, but thankfully all but the distortion abated rather suddenly in September 2010.

Listening to any music whatsoever was out of the question while the symptoms were at their worst. But I seem to have been left with, probably permanent, damage to my hearing, both ears strangely, as the noise and loss of low frequencies and distortion symptoms were all in the left ear, but while my right ear, which had poor hearing anyway, also incurred just the distortion - which make me suspect a wiring problem in the speech processing centre. The distortion is mainly in the speech frequencies, and some higher frequencies. The AR 90's have nice deep soft bass which I can hear very well, but spoken speech, and certain singers and certain complex sounds are very harsh and crackly, as if those frequencies were being over-amplified and are 'clipping'. Worst are consonents and a, i and e vowels (pretty much covers the lot hey!). Instrumental music sounds OK. I don't know if the hair cells are damaged, and / or if the part of my brain that interprets speech (which is separate to that part which processes music, which also does a little bit of speech processing), has had its wiring screwed by whatever caused the Menier's-like symptoms.

In case that is the problem I am trying to rewire my brain, by listening to music at a reasonable volume (not too loud) which has singing, to try and get the music-processing area to take over speech processing, but without much success so far - as the music processing area might also be damaged. Apparently some people with similar symptoms have had some success in regaining clearer speech hearing but it can take years. Avoiding sounds by using earplugs and so forth is apparently the worst thing I can do, as that forces my brain to try to overamplify the very sounds I need to hear normally.

I'll keep trying, it might ake a long time. No hearing specialst here has a clue as to what is going on or how to fix it.

I may not post very often, but I'll try to drop by every so often.

Cheers to all!

Allen