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The Kitchen


RoyC

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The hobby should be fun and constructive

--Tom Tyson

I have often thought that discussions involving musical preferences, and for some, associated audio equipment, could be added to politics and religion as dangerous topics to discuss...much less debate. Regardless of the arguments, it all boils down to opinion. As for the "associated audio equipment" part, I'm guessing if we were all in the same non-virtual room auditioning various speaker systems from the start, disagreements would probably be less volatile.

Once things become personal, it is VERY difficult to fix things through a forum message board. For this reason, I'm still not sure about the creation of "The Kitchen". The endless debates have been mostly mind-numbing. I avoided it for a long time, but it seemed to be where the "discussion" was going.

I am probably going to regret typing this next part...and I really hate typing...

A forum does not have to be a democracy, and maybe censorship is the way to go. It may be easier to remove comments not in keeping with the INTENT of the forum than to continually have to shut down threads. (Gene should receive hazardous duty pay.) IMO, if obviously provocative posts are deleted, and others sent to the "mods and tweaks" section, Howard F's Allison *informational* contributions would not become buried in closed "Kitchen" threads....and this forum's intent may be better served. I doubt most visitors to this site really care about the validity of AR's Live demos vs Toole's "listening" tests. They are points of interest, and I personally wish I was "there" for both, but the ensuing debate will not convince people to change their minds about what they prefer. Of course, most visitors to this forum are more interested in the experiences of those who witnessed the AR demos. What purpose does an endless debate over whether early speaker systems were really any good serve in this forum? They are what they are, and their creators have earned their place in history. Maybe that is enough for this site. Audiokarma and other audio forums carry debates on the matter. Links can be provided.

My favorite pastime is restoring, and listening to early AR speakers. I also loved the sound of Allison speakers to the point of almost making a purchase (for aesthetic reasons couldn't get past the sticky up-firing woofers at the time), AND I have found satisfaction in building and listening to a pair of "modern" waveguide speakers using "classic" woofers. After writing this, and deciding whether to hit the "post" button ;), I am finishing up a beautiful restoration of a pair of AR-3as for a college (engineering) student in Virginia. I have met some great folks, and have made some wonderful friends through this forum. This CAN be a fun and constructive hobby, indeed.

Roy

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if obviously provocative posts are deleted, and others sent to the "mods and tweaks" section

Roy,

The Kitchen is the place where we send "obviously provocative" posts and the obviously unacceptable responses they engender.

Whether it's "worth the trouble" depends on what you're expecting from the forum. As a place for a civilized, attitude-and-conflict-free discourse on higher level technical theory, not a chance, but as a toxic waste dump to put posts that Mark prefers not to censor but which would otherwise disrupt the main forum and ruin his goal of maintaining a venue for the exchange of information and support that assists in the care and feeding of classic New England speakers, it's been working pretty well.

If you look in here not expecting to see anything more than a lot of immature flame wars that eventually lead to moderator shutdowns, you may occasionally get a pleasant surprise as you stumble across an unanticipated gem.

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Roy,

The Kitchen is the place where we send "obviously provocative" posts and the obviously unacceptable responses they engender.

Gene,

I respect Mark's preference not to censor, but I'm not sure The Kitchen, as it stands, is in keeping with his recently stated reason for establishing this forum. I don't feel the need to debate it. He is the Administrator, and you be the Sheriff.

So:

"Plan B"...If what you say is truly a stated purpose of the Kitchen, maybe it would be better to let the "obviously provocative posts and unacceptable responses" necessitating banishment to The Kitchen play out, and try to refrain from shutting down threads because members are not playing nicely together. Let them get it out of their systems. I'm beginning to doubt you can have it both ways.

"Plan C" Another approach, as recent events seem to indicate, is to drive troublesome members away through sheer frustration or exhaustion.

"Plan D": Group counseling.

"Plan E": Medication

Z,

Let's meet in the Mods and Tweaks section of the forum. I've done some further comparisons between the AR-2ax and E'wave, and have some observations and questions to discuss.

Gene,

Is it possible to take the pertinent 2ax/Ewave posts from that recently "closed" AR-3a Directivity thread, and move them to Mods and Tweaks? After all, now that it has been firmly established that old AR speakers have rather poor high frequency response, and worse dispersion; and likely do not have other qualities they have been touted to have, where else is there to go? ;) I'm getting out of the kitchen.

Thanks for the replies, guys...

Did I mention I hate typing?

Roy

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"Plan B"...If what you say is truly a stated purpose of the Kitchen, maybe it would be better to let the "obviously provocative posts and unacceptable responses" necessitating banishment to The Kitchen play out, and try to refrain from shutting down threads because members are not playing nicely together. Let them get it out of their systems. I'm beginning to doubt you can have it both ways.

Perhaps not, but we're not going to let things descend to the level of name-calling and personal insults, either. Threads in the Kitchen are allowed to go on far longer than they would be in the main forums, but even here there have to be limits.

Is it possible to take the pertinent 2ax/Ewave posts from that recently "closed" AR-3a Directivity thread, and move them to Mods and Tweaks? After all, now that it has been firmly established that old AR speakers have rather poor high frequency response, and worse dispersion; and likely do not have other qualities they have been touted to have, where else is there to go? ;) I'm getting out of the kitchen.

Send me the ID #'s of the pertinent posts and they can be moved.

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Perhaps not, but we're not going to let things descend to the level of name-calling and personal insults, either. Threads in the Kitchen are allowed to go on far longer than they would be in the main forums, but even here there have to be limits.

Send me the ID #'s of the pertinent posts and they can be moved.

I agree Gene with your first comment. Does anybody recall an AR thread that degenerated into an endless battle of barbs between two giant egos with no one backing down? That's where most of those will surely end up. Thus, letting flame wars go on serves as fine theater for those on the sidelines, but not the hobby.

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I agree Gene with your first comment. Does anybody recall an AR thread that degenerated into an endless battle of barbs between two giant egos with no one backing down? That's where most of those will surely end up. Thus, letting flame wars go on serves as fine theater for those on the sidelines, but not the hobby.

Just a general comment - there is at least one member here who

admits to going to other forums and stirring things up. Deliberately

making provocative statements to drive others away and/or make

them give up. He is most likely doing the same thing here, and

people like this should be banned IMO. He was proud of being banned

from other forums. It is called thread crap**ng on most forums.

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More generically, the practice is called "trolling." Internet trolls feed their egos by causing forums to go into a panic over their activities. Forums where the members make endless attempts to counter them, complain about them or allow themselves to become hysterical and depart with "brave exit speeches," ("flouncing") are like smörgåsbords, and getting banned from a forum is like bringing home a trophy. The proper response to trolls is no response at all, i.e., "do not feed the trolls."

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Thus, letting flame wars go on serves as fine theater for those on the sidelines, but not the hobby.

Disagree.

There is more comprehensive information relating to vintage New England loudspeaker design in The Kitchen than ever elsewhere compiled. It should be required reading for students thereof.

[bonus: nobody lost an eye.... ;) ]

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Disagree.

There is more comprehensive information relating to vintage New England loudspeaker design in The Kitchen than ever elsewhere compiled. It should be required reading for students thereof.

[bonus: nobody lost an eye.... ;) ]

The one particular flame war I was referring to occured long before you signing on at CSP. When it got bad, no technical information was conveyed. Just barbs and insults. That's where I'm coming from in my thread you referenced. Your stuff with HF was tame by comparison.

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More generically, the practice is called "trolling." Internet trolls feed their egos by causing forums to go into a panic over their activities. Forums where the members make endless attempts to counter them, complain about them or allow themselves to become hysterical and depart with "brave exit speeches," ("flouncing") are like smörgåsbords, and getting banned from a forum is like bringing home a trophy. The proper response to trolls is no response at all, i.e., "do not feed the trolls."

This is more subtle than trolling but yes I'm certainly aware of trolls also.

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It appears that nobody else has anything else to say about the question of whether the Kitchen is "worth it," so I'm going to close this topic. I've split the posts that had nothing to do with the original question off to their own discussion, which appears to be destined for a very short life.

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