AR-4 inheritance, project for amateur ?

[Guest 4MarkNY]

I've had these speakers from my wife's Dad for some 11 years. They are a matched set, numerically, from the label on the back. They always sounded awful, and I recently decided to find out why. The surrounds on the woofers seem to be in good shape for their age. How do I troubleshoot from this point? I'm thinking I'd like to bring them back, to a nice sounding pair, refinish the cabinets, etc.

I understand that they were the bottom of the AR offering for bookshelf speakers from just one year (started '64, ended '65), and I'm not against updating internal components to improve the originals either.

I've been through these pages for a couple of hours now, and haven't run across how people have determined that they needed to rebuild the crossover, or replace the tweeter, whatever.

At the moment my hunch is that both crossovers are "bad" causing the poor tonal qualities. I've tried these with a SAE/Adcom amp/preamp setup as well as on my Harmon/Kardon receiver with the same results.

Any ideas ? Any quick replacement of the crossovers that would satisfy these? whos' would be compatable ( or, better?, since I saw that these crossovers were not engineered well , directionally.)

Thanks for your help-

[genek]

I've had these speakers from my wife's Dad for some 11 years. They are a matched set, numerically, from the label on the back. They always sounded awful, and I recently decided to find out why.

Can you be more specific about what constitutes "awful?" Do they make rattling or buzzing noises, do they sound muffled, or...?

[Guest 4MarkNY]

Correction ! these are AR-4x speakers.

[Guest 4MarkNY]

Can you be more specific about what constitutes "awful?" Do they make rattling or buzzing noises, do they sound muffled, or...?

no buzzing to speak of, they are muffled....muddy....inarticulate.....

[genek]

no buzzing to speak of, they are muffled....muddy....inarticulate.....

If the bass is ok and the problem is a lack of mids and highs, the most likely causes are either bad tweeters or bad tweeter level controls. Start with the tweeter controls, exercise them back and forth and see if that causes highs to come from the speakers at all. If it does, then the tweeters are most likely ok and the controls need to be cleaned or replaced. If not, then you're going to have to test the tweeters with a multimeter and see if they have a circuit or are open (bad). Reasonably close replacements for both the level controls and the tweeters are available from AB Tech Services (abtechservices.com).

[johnieo]

Hello 4MarkNY:

As noted in another reply, the first suspect is a corroded potentiometer; second is open tweeter. If you look in the Library, AR section under original speakers, you will find the AR-3a repair document. It contains material common to others of that era, such as how to remove the grille frames without damage, remove and clean the potentiometers, check the tweeter for continuity, and so on. What are the serial numbers of the units? If you discover the tweeter is not functional, I would suggest purchasing a couple from Vintage AR, or from others on eBay. One needs to take care that what is advertised is an AR-4x tweeter. New replacements will not sound the same. You may also need to change the capacitor. Feel free to contact me through the forum; we have rehabed quite a number of these excellent speakers and will help where possible.

Cheers,

[Guest 4MarkNY]

Johnieo, and Genek-

Thanks for the tips.....I couldn't find that ar-3a document before I posted, but it's printing now, and it looks like it has many of the answers.

I'll work from that document to start, and look for quidance as I progress (hopefully....) or need clarification on 4x differences.

The serial numbers that I thought from my previous inspection were sequential, are not.... I have FX153911 and FX158711.

My 13 year old son ( #3 of 4 boys) has become very interested in classic rock, and has recently purchased some albums. I have bought a AR turntable on ebay, and putting this together with his grandfathers Sansui receiver, which he even may have bought at the same time... Anyway, a fun project to pass these along to my son from the grandfather that he never had the opportunity to know.....

Thanks again, glad I found this community....

McQ

As noted in another reply, the first suspect is a corroded potentiometer; second is open tweeter. If you look in the Library, AR section under original speakers, you will find the AR-3a repair document. It contains material common to others of that era, such as how to remove the grille frames without damage, remove and clean the potentiometers, check the tweeter for continuity, and so on. What are the serial numbers of the units? If you discover the tweeter is not functional, I would suggest purchasing a couple from Vintage AR, or from others on eBay. One needs to take care that what is advertised is an AR-4x tweeter. New replacements will not sound the same. You may also need to change the capacitor. Feel free to contact me through the forum; we have rehabed quite a number of these excellent speakers and will help where possible.

Cheers,

[johnieo]

McQ:

Based on the serial numbers, your units were made in about March 1968.

Cheers,

[Mexicomike]

Now you need an AR amplifier to go with those AR speakers and AR TT!

NOT that the AR amp is the equal of many other amps but it makes a nice sounding and great looking vintage audio setup with the other AR components!

[JKent]

Mark

They may have been the bottom of the AR line, but they are excellent speakers. My first speaker restoration project was a pair of AR 4x's that I bought new in 1969. John (johnieo), who has responded to your post and was the editor of the AR3a restoration manual, was of tremendous help to me in that project. FOLLOW HIS ADVICE (and the AR3a book) and you will be rewarded with some very fine sounding speakers! I listen "through" mine every day.

Good luck.

Kent

[Guest 4MarkNY]

Now you need an AR amplifier to go with those AR speakers and AR TT!

NOT that the AR amp is the equal of many other amps but it makes a nice sounding and great looking vintage audio setup with the other AR components!

MexMike- My father-in-law had this paired with a Sansui 771 receiver, which is what I'm putting it together with. It's for my 13 year old son, who has recently shown interest in vinyl record albums. (by investing his own money, even.....) He never knew " Papa Don", as he was 6 months old when he died. But this is a good way for him to share a inter-generational appreciation for music.....and a project for us......

Thanks for your thoughts !

[Guest 4MarkNY]

Mark

They may have been the bottom of the AR line, but they are excellent speakers. My first speaker restoration project was a pair of AR 4x's that I bought new in 1969. John (johnieo), who has responded to your post and was the editor of the AR3a restoration manual, was of tremendous help to me in that project. FOLLOW HIS ADVICE (and the AR3a book) and you will be rewarded with some very fine sounding speakers! I listen "through" mine every day.

Good luck.

Kent

Thanks, Kent !

I've already learned that Johnieo is a wealth of information.......

I printed out the AR-3 document and saw that John was key in that .....I was able to pull the pots last night and clean them both. The tweeters have come back into the sound stage, with some fiddling with the pot stem. They do not respond through the entire pot spectrum, but finding a "spot" on each one that gives signal, at least gives me an appreciation of their potential. Longer term, I'll be replacing the pots, and refinishing the cabinets, minimally.

I'm also putting together a analog tube setup, which is my initial foray into tubedom. I have found a Dynaco St-70 that is being brought up to specs, and will be pairing that with a recently acquired Dynaco PAS-3 preamp. I'll probably be hooking that up with my Klipsch Heresy 1s, or the Sansui SP3500s. I'll give that setup a listen with the AR-4x set, but assume at this point that I'll want more efficient speakers with the tube amp....

[JKent]

Thanks, Kent !

I've already learned that Johnieo is a wealth of information.......

I printed out the AR-3 document and saw that John was key in that .....I was able to pull the pots last night and clean them both. The tweeters have come back into the sound stage, with some fiddling with the pot stem. They do not respond through the entire pot spectrum, but finding a "spot" on each one that gives signal, at least gives me an appreciation of their potential. Longer term, I'll be replacing the pots, and refinishing the cabinets, minimally.

I'm also putting together a analog tube setup, which is my initial foray into tubedom. I have found a Dynaco St-70 that is being brought up to specs, and will be pairing that with a recently acquired Dynaco PAS-3 preamp. I'll probably be hooking that up with my Klipsch Heresy 1s, or the Sansui SP3500s. I'll give that setup a listen with the AR-4x set, but assume at this point that I'll want more efficient speakers with the tube amp....

Two words of advice:

Your cleaned up pots may need a bit more cleaning and maybe some de-ox-it or dielectric grease. First pair I did was spotty, too, but after some more cleaning and checking with a DMM they were fine. OTOH, the accepted wisdom around here now is that L-Pads are fine for the 4x. They cost about $4 ea from Parts Express or Madisound.

That tube setup will be plenty for the 4x's. My first stereo consisted of the 4x's, AR TT, KLH tuner, dynaco PAT-4 and dynaco ST-35 tube power amp--HALF the power of the ST-70. Unless you plan on playing in an auditorium I think you have a perfect match there. The tubes and AR are meant for each other! Keep up the good work!

Kent

oops--ONE MORE word. If you plan to do a "minimal" refinishing, I highly recommend Howards Restor-a-finish. No stripping, no sanding. You apply it with fine stell wool and rub it with a cloth. If you like Howards makes an excellent beeswax-based wax, of yu can use Watco Danish Oil after the Restor-a-finish--you cannot (and should not) use varnish over the Howard's.

K

[Guest 4MarkNY]

McQ:

Based on the serial numbers, your units were made in about March 1968.

Cheers,

Thanks John-

As part of the "educational" experience for "Sonny", we'll be reviewing/listening to these when we get the setup up and running:

1968: Billboard top hits:

[JKent]

Thanks John-

As part of the "educational" experience for "Sonny", we'll be reviewing/listening to these when we get the setup up and running:

1968: Billboard top hits:

Wow! This is "my generations'" music and it's amazing to see how much crap ( Honey, Young girl, Judy in Disguise) and schlock (Those were the days, Love is blue) etc etc is in there with the gems (Heard it through the grapevine, Dock of the bay, Born to be wild). Even the one Beatles number wasn't their best.

(IMHO)

[Mexicomike]

"Even the one Beatles number wasn't their best."

But it was there biggest seller by far. Picking THE best Beatle song would be impossible - I'd probably have to pick 20 of them and those 20 might change depending on my preference on any give day for early Beatles, mid Beatles, or late Beatles.

All my Beatles albums released beginning with "Help" were played on an AR TT and AR2ax speakers! Amp through most of that period was a 40WPC Fischer tube amp. ALL my friends came to my college apartment and later wife/my apt to hear the latest "word" from the Fab Four on quality stereo equipment!! The equipment, which also included an Ampex F44 tape deck was paid for by my parents who THOUGHT I was spending the money on college tuition at the University of Texas. But I never went to class; I bought good stereo equipment. One has to keep one's priorities in order!

[dynaco_dan]

"Even the one Beatles number wasn't their best."

!! The equipment, which also included an Ampex F44 tape deck was paid for by my parents who THOUGHT I was spending the money on college tuition at the University of Texas. But I never went to class; I bought good stereo equipment. One has to keep one's priorities in order!

HA HA HA

Road Trip next LOL

[Guest 4MarkNY]

Holy S&^% , Kent that Howard's restor-a-finish is great stuff !!!!!!

I was out at the Depot, and thought I'd take a look, and I brought some home. I couldn't believe what the cabinets look like

from just that product. I thought I'd try it on the bottom of one speaker, (being that they've normally been used in a vertical position), and with a double aught steel wool, the scrathes and surface blemishes just disappeared. I had to do the whole box, just cause it was so much fun watching the finish come back.....Can't wait to buy some neutral, and get the ring out of that Stickley sideboard upstairs!!!!!

oops--ONE MORE word. If you plan to do a "minimal" refinishing, I highly recommend Howards Restor-a-finish. No stripping, no sanding. You apply it with fine stell wool and rub it with a cloth. If you like Howards makes an excellent beeswax-based wax, of yu can use Watco Danish Oil after the Restor-a-finish--you cannot (and should not) use varnish over the Howard's.

K