Got a pair of Snell Type J II speakers

[JKent]

For free! A neighbor was getting rid of them so right place/right time.

I've never worked on Snells before and there's not a whole lot of info that I can find. So I fired these up and one sounded just wonderful. The other has an occasional buzz, which the neighbor had told me about. Apparently Snell advised against re-foaming and instead tried to sell customers entire new woofers AND crossovers (!) when the foam rotted. My neighbor, being a sensible guy decided that was ridiculous and decided to re-foam the woofers himself. Unfortunately, that was not his strength. So both woofers look bad and one makes a "raspberries" sound sometimes. Otherwise they're in great shape.

I think the cone is poly (edit: they’re coated paper) and the new foams were attached with the nitrile based glue, so although I've refoamed a lot of drivers I'm a little hesitant about this. Will update when I've made progress.

Hope there are still some Snell guys around to give advice!

Kent

Edited August 11, 2023 by JKent

[DavidR]

Snell made some fine speakers. One thing they were known for was bundling caps. This was for two reasons: (1) to reach a particular uF and (2) to attain a particular ESR (equivalent series resistance). You might find that the bundle of caps in one speaker do not match what's in the other.

[JKent]

Thanks David. I know the original owner and he said he only re-foamed the woofers. I will however be looking at the xo's

[JKent]

Looking for some input here. Haven't decided yet whether to tackle the buzzing woofer myself but I pulled one crossover today. Snell was known for "bundling" capacitors as can be seen here. I'm not going to bother with the film bundle, lower right but there are 3 NPE bundles I think I'll replace.

Snell originally used NPEs in those spots. That may have been a purely financial decision but I've been wanting to try the Mundorf E-Caps so I thought I'd stick with NPEs rather than film.

Here's what's in there now:

• 4+8uF (12uF)
• 2x16uF (32uF)
• 3x33uF (99uF)

Looking at what's available in the E-Cap line at Parts Conexion, I plan to order these:

• 10uF + 2uF
• 22uF + 10uF
• 3 x 33uF

Sound good? I also thought I'd replace the old sandcast resistors. They are

• 4 ohm 5% 25w
• 0.5 ohm 5% 25w

Mundorf MR series resistors:

• 2 x 8.2 ohm 2% 10w (= 4.1 ohm 20w)
• 2 x 1 ohm 2% 10w (= 0.5 ohm 20w)

Or I could use Mills. They have 8 ohm and 1 ohm, 1% tolerance 12w. That would give me exact values at 24w BUT they're $9.50 each (so close to $80) compared to Mundorf $3 each. Or there's Riedon 50w with the finned aluminum enclosures but they may be physically too big.

Any other ideas?

[DavidR]

Kent, that list looks like a good way to tackle the cap replacement.

$9.50 for Mills !!!!!! Wow, they have doubled in price !

I have a few of the Mundorf resistors but have not used any (yet) so I can't comment. I do know of several people who have used them and no complaints.

 

Some may find these write ups on Peter Snell interesting.

https://auralhifi.com/pages/snell

https://www.stereophile.com/content/snell-type-loudspeaker-peter-snell-1946ndash1984

[JKent]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:43 PM, DavidR said:

Snell made some fine speakers. One thing they were known for was bundling caps. This was for two reasons: (1) to reach a particular uF and (2) to attain a particular ESR (equivalent series resistance). You might find that the bundle of caps in one speaker do not match what's in the other.

And I did. Even though they are consecutive serial numbers, one had a bundle of three 33uF caps while the other had a single 100uF. 

I ended up ordering slightly different value Ecaps. For the 12uF I'll use 10 (+ a 2uF film cap I have on hand). For the 32 I'll use a 22 + a 10 and for the 99 I'll use 56 + 33 + 10. Haven't made a decision about bypass caps but am open to comments. As I mentioned, there's another bundle in there (lower right hand corner in photo above) but they're film so I'll leave them alone. Also decided to keep the original 25w resistors. If that's the original design it may not be wise to downgrade to 20w.

Got my order from Simply Speakers today and re-refoamed them. They certainly look better. We'll see how they sound. SS sells surrounds specifically for these Snell Euro Vifa M21WN woofers. They're slightly smaller than generic 8". They also claim the surrounds are made in the USA. A bit pricier than some at $42/pair but worth it if they are an exact fit. The kit comes with nitrile-based adhesive, which I hate so I used Aleene's Tacky Glue. The cones are treated paper.

[JKent]

Well, my E-caps came today. First impression: I'm not impressed (let the flames begin 😊). They're NPEs made in Germany with a +/-5% tolerance. I put my bundles together and here's how they measure:

• 56+33+10 "should" be 99uF. These measure 109 and 109.2. So more like 10% off
• 22+10 (+0.068 a PIO bypass cap) should be 32.068, measure 35.5 & 35.6. Again, about 10%
• 10+2 (the 2.0 is a Dayton film cap and measured spot on) measured 13.3 & 13.4. About 10% again. And it ain't the Daytons throwing it off.

Can't comment on how they "sound" but I'm a real skeptic about that. NPEs from PE probably would have measured better. I know a 10% variance in capacitor value is considered perfectly acceptable but when you're going for "premium" or "audiophile" caps it's disappointing.

Changed my mind about the resistors (again) because I don't like the amateurish-looking layout of the xo. Waiting for new 25w Rs from Mouser.

While I wait I'll probably re-dope the tweeter domes. I've read some discussion of refurbishing the coated silk domes ranging from smearing on Permatex to completely disassembling the tweeters, removing all the original coating and painting with shellac. I plan to use Roy's cloth surround goo.

[JKent]

Crossovers complete. The 32uF in the tweeter circuit is bypassed with a green Russian Paper-In-Oil 0.01 cap.

[JKent]

Finished! The final step was to re-dope the tweeter domes using some of Roy's goo tinted with black Mixol, and spiff up the wood a little. These were well cared for so didn't really require any cosmetic fix-up. I washed the grilles. Also washed down the cabinets, then applied Rocky Mountain Lustre. I read about someone using this and I'd say it works well. It cleans and "revitalizes" the wood.

 These are some great-sounding speakers. Too bad I don't have room for them 🙁 

[DavidR]

On 7/21/2023 at 12:39 PM, JKent said:

Well, my E-caps came today. First impression: I'm not impressed (let the flames begin 😊). They're NPEs made in Germany with a +/-5% tolerance. I put my bundles together and here's how they measure:

• 56+33+10 "should" be 99uF. These measure 109 and 109.2. So more like 10% off

It's the meter. They probably did measure 10% high because your particular meter has a pre-selected frequency based on cap size. It measured them at 8.2Hz instead of 1000Hz. We know from Carl's posts and measurements that NPEs rise in capacitance with a decrease in frequency, and conversely, decrease in capacitance with an increase in frequency. Any NPE would do this. Carl also demonstrated that film cap capacitance is barely affected, if at all, by frequency. Perhaps this is why I find that speakers designed with a crossover using NPE sound 'right' with NPE vs dropping film caps in. Ken Kantor always said to replace like with like.

[JKent]

Thanks for that info. Maybe I'll test some of my stash of NPEs and see if they all measure high. I was trusting my memory (always iffy 😉) that the ones from PE were spot on.

Yes, part of my reasoning for using the Mundorf ECaps was KK's advice. Figured I's stick to NPE but go with higher quality.

[DavidR]

Most of the NPE caps I've purchased from Parts Express have measured (@1000Hz) quite well EXCEPT the 220uF. Althou still in spec of the +/- 10% tolerance most of them measured 15uF low; some lower some a little higher.

I'm still willing to measure your Ecaps caps and send them back free of charge. Some years ago I got some that measured high. Not sure of the value but they were relatively small value caps. I wrote (email) to Mundorf who responded that this particular value had been incorrectly set up on the machine that manufacturers them and that the issue had been corrected. They sent me new ones. Where was the QA department?

[JKent]

Thanks for the offer David but my Snells are all buttoned up and I'm enjoying listening to them. DOn't want to tear 'em apart again!