Replacement drivers for AR 3a / LST from Simply Speakers?

[Guest Tube747]

Hello!

I'm very new to this forum, and need some help to refurbish my AR LST. I found a company called Simply Speakers selling drivers for AR LST and 3a. Are they any good?

http://simplyspeakers.com/12diaphragms.htm

Thanks in advance!

[dynaco_dan]

>Hello!

>I'm very new to this forum, and need some help to refurbish my

>AR LST. I found a company called Simply Speakers selling

>drivers for AR LST and 3a. Are they any good?

>

>http://simplyspeakers.com/12diaphragms.htm

>

>Thanks in advance!

Hi there;

You are probably best to try to find used drivers on ebay or some other used source.

This is if you want the original sound quality.

The new drivers are not exact sonic replacements.

For the LST's you need to keep your eyes out for the same style tweeters and mids, front or rear wired.

Be careful of the sellers that say their drivers are for AR-5, AR-LST/2, AR-3A and AR-LST.

You are probably aware, or not, there is 4 ohm and 8 ohm drivers that physicaly look identical.

Of course they are not interchangeable.

An 8 ohm driver used in a 4 ohm system, will be a few db lower, the 4 ohm driver used in an 8 ohm system, will be a few db louder.

Now that I have said that, there seems to be a situation where AR had mounted wirewound resistors on the back of some tweeters.

Series or parallel, we will be learning more about this?

There is more to come from this story by others, I am sure.

[Guest Tube747]

So where is the best place to repair the drivers on my AR LST? Actually, what's wrong the drivers from Simply Speakers? They said that theose AR drivers are coming from the AR factory for replacment of AR 3a and LST. thanks again!

>>Hello!

>>I'm very new to this forum, and need some help to

>refurbish my

>>AR LST. I found a company called Simply Speakers selling

>>drivers for AR LST and 3a. Are they any good?

>>

>>http://simplyspeakers.com/12diaphragms.htm

>>

>>Thanks in advance!

>

>

>Hi there;

>

>You are probably best to try to find used drivers on ebay or

>some other used source.

>

>This is if you want the original sound quality.

>

>The new drivers are not exact sonic replacements.

>

>For the LST's you need to keep your eyes out for the same

>style tweeters and mids, front or rear wired.

>

>Be careful of the sellers that say their drivers are for AR-5,

>AR-LST/2, AR-3A and AR-LST.

>

>You are probably aware, or not, there is 4 ohm and 8 ohm

>drivers that physicaly look identical.

>

>Of course they are not interchangeable.

>

>An 8 ohm driver used in a 4 ohm system, will be a few db

>lower, the 4 ohm driver used in an 8 ohm system, will be a few

>db louder.

>

>Now that I have said that, there seems to be a situation where

>AR had mounted wirewound resistors on the back of some

>tweeters.

>

>Series or parallel, we will be learning more about this?

>

>There is more to come from this story by others, I am sure.

>

>

[Guest daveshel]

I bought some surrounds from them in an ebay auction and there were no problems, but ever since every time I hear mention of the name it is in the context of being really hard to get in contact with.

[frankmarsi]

>Hello!

>I'm very new to this forum, and need some help to refurbish my

>AR LST. I found a company called Simply Speakers selling

>drivers for AR LST and 3a. Are they any good?

>

>http://simplyspeakers.com/12diaphragms.htm

>

>Thanks in advance!

frankmarsi@verizon.net

We should talk.

[Guest Bret]

What drivers do you need to replace and why?

It matters.

Bret

[Guest Tube747]

>What drivers do you need to replace and why?

>

>It matters.

>

>Bret

Some midrange and tweeters not in working order after check up by technician.

[Guest Bret]

Unless you want to replace them all (essentially making it no-longer an LST) with new, just take your time and buy used drivers off eBay or wherever.

The reason you don't want to mix and match with the ones you've found new is that they aren't the same as the old ones. In what way are they different? It's easier to talk about their sameness which is: they fit in the holes of the cabinet. Okay, so it's not that bad, but it's bad enough. The new drivers are *not* the same as the old drivers.

I did the same thing you did. "AR Factory," and wow, I'm ready to buy! No, it isn't *the* AR factory, it's a factory that once produced drivers for AR, so it is a "real" AR factory and it is *the* approved replacement driver, but it isn't the original driver made in the original place.

But an LST is one of the few speakers 30+ years old that really deserve to be restored with all original parts. And I think you'll find that the value will be much, much higher if all original era parts are used to restore them.

Bret

[RoyC]

Simply Speakers' website, as well as their recent Ebay ad, show an incorrect midrange for your project even though the provided description suggests that it is appropriate for the 70's classics.

It is not an appropriate replacement.

The pictured midrange is similar in appearance to the 70's classics, but has different specs. It was originally used in the mid 90's in the AR-303 and 302 models. It would be an expensive mistake to purchase that version for your LST's.

In fact, none of the currently available replacement drivers will match the characteristics of the old.

Roy

[Guest Tube747]

Hello guys!

Thank you for the valuable comments and information! So, what about the drivers from AB Tech? I know they have replacement midrange and tweeters for my LST. I talked to the gentleman from AB Tech, and he claimed that the drivers they are selling are based on the same specification as the original one from the 70s. the only change will be the midrange, which comes without the metal screen that original did.

Therefore, have you guys tried the replacements from AB Tech?

Thanks!

[RoyC]

AB Tech is a better source, but I agree with Bret's comments above regarding any new replacement drivers. The new drivers are similar sounding at best.

I would be looking for used replacements from that era.

Roy

[Guest Bret]

>So, what about the drivers from AB Tech?<

Bought all the new ones I threw away or sold for 1/3rd what I paid for them from ABTech. 10" woofers, 12" woofers, .75" tweeters, 8" midranges, 1.5" midranges (two types).

>I know they have replacement midrange and tweeters for my LST. I talked to the gentleman from AB Tech, and he claimed that the drivers they are selling are based on the same specification as the original one from the 70s.<

Look, I generally like the guys at ABTech but "based on" is too flimsy a word. I'm sure the new Ford Taurus's assembly is "based on" what they learned making a model T.

I've done business with them over and over and over. The 2ax woofers they sent me wouldn't fit in my cabinets and I ended-up with a wood chisel making them fit at ABTech's advice. They were more efficient and very boomy.

Then I bought replacement 4" drivers from them for a pair of "Partner" speakers and they would not fit in the case which was plastic and so a wood chisel wouldn't do me any good. On investigating and calling - AB Tech told me to send them back and they'd send me some more. Did that. The ones I got back from them would fit but they were not near the drivers either the original, or the first replacements, were. I called them back.

Their response was, "Do you know what a replacement driver like the originals would cost?" They said they'd take what they sent me back (I have always found that they are very business-like and cordial) but if I wanted drivers like I had, they couldn't help me.

The ones they sent sounded like garbage and rather than throw any more money away on a $100 pair of speakers, they sat unused in the garage until such time as I needed a pair of speakers I could fry without crying. Tried an unknown amp, fried 'em, pitched them in the garbage - no tears.

>the only change will be the midrange, which comes without the metal screen that original did.<

Been there, done that for replacement drivers for a pair of 10pi's. The first ones AB Tech sent, once again, wouldn't fit in the cabinet. That was a mistake, they said, and shipped the ones you are talking about, I think. Those fit in the cabinet - the terminals lined-up with the notches and the screw holes were the right size (not true of the first pair) but were for a much later speaker with different crossover points. Couldn't stay in the room with it. Truly awful. I'm sure they were *excellent* in the speaker they were designed for.

Sold them on eBay for about half what I paid for them.

When Ken Kantor designed the 303, he went back to the metal screen and diffraction/absorption/whatever ring for the midrange. Since he had to redesign and order those drivers to be built, I can only assume that they had characteristics that he thought he had to have to "update" the AR-3a. I'm saying that the screen does more than just look pretty - the foam touches the driver and the screen and "does stuff."

>Therefore, have you guys tried the replacements from AB Tech?<

The new / current ABTech replacement tweeters are not the same as the only pair of replacements I ever had. At the time ABTech and Simply Speakers appeared to be selling the same driver. Again - nothing like the original driver except it would fit.

ABTech is *the* replacement driver outfit for AR. If ABTech says, "This is the approved replacement driver," you can take it to the bank. They are the ones doing the approving - so of course it's the approved one. That doesn't make it the same.

I know it's frustrating and hard to believe, but there are no more drivers like the ones you have. The only source is used. Imagine going to your GM dealer looking for an original glove box latch for a 1959 Oldsmobile Super 88 and you get an idea of the problem.

AR has been sold, bought, sold, bought, bankrupted, bought, and ignored a lot since the days of the LST. The AR we all wish were around servicing their products hasn't existed in many years.

I'm not guessing. Used is absolutely your best bet. It will take time to find everything you need. It'll be a long-term project. It'll be expensive. The result would be worth it.

If you don't want to take the time to put them back together in their original state, my suggestion would be to sell what you've got of a set of LSTs and buy something more modern with all the right drivers in it. You'll end-up with a better speaker.

There are several people here who would take-on a half-set of LSTs just for the chance to put them back together correctly.

Bret

[dynaco_dan]

Did I hear my name mentioned?

You have read about the best advice you are going to find here, or anywhere else on the internet.

It is a slow process looking for fully functioning drivers, but that is the best way to go.

Do remember front and rear wired and impedance differences.

I would rather have an empty LST enclosure, and wait for the parts to arrive, than go the new parts route, now.

There was a pair of LST's that were parted on this website, maybe?

The seller up and disappeared with the empty enclosures, maybe?

[ar_pro]

Well said, Bret - you couldn't be more correct.

You should see what's being offered as the "factory replacement" for the AR-9 8" driver - it has a PLASTIC cone! Now, what do you think *that* will sound like?

The LST should be kept authentic...either that, or sell it to the guy who had "35 pairs of LST cabinets".

[dynaco_dan]

By the way, "whatever happened", to that man?

Only Tom might own that many. lol

[tysontom]

>By the way, "whatever happened", to that man?

>

>Only Tom might own that many. lol

Vern, did I hear my name? Incidentally, I am about to close a deal on 1,000 brand-new, empty AR-9 cabinets... leftovers from 1978. Although I haven't decided for sure, I will probably install home-brew drivers of my own design. Since I am a minimilist, there will be *no* crossover. I will "hog-out" the 12-inch (excuse me, "11-inch") woofer holes to allow the installation of 15-inch guitar woofers with 5-ounce magnets. This will be a "killer" system, don't you think?

--Tom Tyson

[rrcrain]

Tom,

Sounds like an interesting project and idea. Any idea how much they will be marketed for yet and will you offer plans for a proper crossover?

[frankmarsi]

>Tom,

>

>Sounds like an interesting project and idea. Any idea how much

>they will be marketed for yet and will you offer plans for a

>proper crossover?

Fella, these guys are pulling your leg.

FM

[frankmarsi]

>>Tom,

>>

>>Sounds like an interesting project and idea. Any idea how

>much

>>they will be marketed for yet and will you offer plans for

>a

>>proper crossover?

>

>Fella, these guys are pulling your leg.

>FM

2-15-06

Alright, alright you guys how come no one has called me out? I can tell you, I sometimes feel like the bastard, orphaned step-child on this site. It must be because I exercise a little humor and casualness that I proposed to this site at times for a little comic relief. And second I guess because I don’t really know what da hell I’m talking about except for the use of my ears and hands and 34 plus years of using AR speakers. And not to forget that I was a techy in the Navy, but forget even my ‘basic-electricity’ thru the years.

Getting back to the point at hand, yes everyone has given helpful and correct advice to this new guy with the LST’s ,imagine a ‘new-guy’ with LST’s, I had to work very hard and long before I even had the slightest possibility of getting my boys, and was only because of being at the right place at the right time and luck.

I personal feel and I know most will agree, that one of the only short comings of AR products were their tweeters which never had much power handling ability, ever. Oh sure good dispersion characteristics and quality of sound, but no power handling strength.

I will tell of a strange exception though. Out of my four LSTs only one of them has all four tweeters fully intact that are working. All the rest of the enclosures have either 2 to 3 or all tweeters burnt out. In terms of waiting for actual used vintage replacements is one of the most difficult and time consuming exercises in futility I ever attempted, and I’ve gotten ‘ripped-off’ on EBay too. In the past, for years I searched until one time I got the ‘go-nads’ to call Mark Levinson himself after I first saw a ‘Cello-Amati’ in the window of ‘Stereo-Exchange’ here in NYC. Mark. Levinson called me himself and stated he would sell me the tweeters, but he advised I call AR directly as they would not charge as much as he would at $90 bucks a piece, and that his were the exact same units. AR promptly sent me 2 of them in 1991 at $40. each. They displayed more output and sounded very ‘silky’ as compared to the originals, a refreshing change at last. I needed about 10 of them, but money was planned for other more important needs and I hesitated. AR decided to close their doors and I lost my chance at tweeters for my AR’s. That attempt didn’t complete my needs so once again I dragged out the ‘Micro-Static’ tweeter array I had used for my 3a’s from ’75 to ’89 and placed them on top of my LST’s. Again I had to play the waiting game to see if I’d ever get these speakers completed.

Fast Forward to 2004 and after many countless hours of surfing the net I learned about AB-Tech’s replacements. After being ‘taken’ on the net I really sensed they were the only way to go. I wasn’t ‘hip’ to “Classicspeakerpages” yet, so I took the plunge and bought a number or tweets.

Being a ‘Golden-Ear’ title holder since ’74 I can honestly say these tweets do have a higher output and greater power handling ability. No they don’t actually sound exactly like the original low output 1972 versions, but the do sound similar to AR 1991 versions albeit with a slightly pronounced mids slipping through for some reason.

I’m not going to suggest that everyone go buy them because I did, I’m merely stating that as a steadfast AR addict, I don’t have much of a choice in his matter. Not when it comes to prices, availability, and waiting time. I have read and was told that the fellow Carlos at AB-Tech tried to closely match these new replacements to the originals, that I imagine could be subjective and I don’t have a scope and what-not, to further comment, but they do the job. Most of all I don’t have to sit back and be uncomfortable about worrying if I’m going to blow them out at high volumes.

They fit perfectly except for some minor ‘mods’ to them like being rear wired as compared to my LST’s being front wired. I have to make some little cuts to facilitate the rear terminals, etc. But let’s talk plainly here, can anyone really wait for used tweets if you needed as many as I do. I decided not to wait and hope for the best with these, new units. No.. the LST’s will never be exactly the same anymore, but at least they’ll be up and running and with only barely perceptible differences. I can’t wait and go thru the usual hassles and disappointments as I once did, life is too short for that.

Respectfully, frankmarsi@verizon.net

P.S. If you find this hobby difficult in terms of restoration and the seeking out of parts, I can’t begin to tell you what it was like for me restoring two 1973 ‘Boat-Tail’ 455 cubic inch Buick Rivieras’ in the eighties. Oh yeah sure many motor parts were standard GM issue, but body parts and trim were entirely unique.

P.S.2 I was able to get 4 AR-LST’s because this truck drove past my office and the driver said he had over 90 of them, did I want some? (just kidding!).

[Guest daveshel]

Boy do I hear you, Frank. I had been watching ebay for some AR7 woofers for like a year and a half. I didn't want to use anything but the original: the small size of the cabinet suggested to me that ever other AR 8" woofers would have different specs. Finally the other day somebody had a pair on ebay. They auction stated they were from AR7s, but called them 6 1/2" instead of 8" so the price never went that high. I looked closely at the pics and decided they were the real thing, and in the end got them for around 35 shipped. They need reconing, but as long as at least one of them has a good voice coil I should finally get to hear my babies again.

[dynaco_dan]

>>>Tom,

>>>

>>>Sounds like an interesting project and idea. Any idea

>how

>>much

>>>they will be marketed for yet and will you offer plans

>for

>>a

>>>proper crossover?

>

>>

>>Fella, these guys are pulling your leg.

>>FM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>2-15-06

>Alright, alright you guys how come no one has called me out? I

>can tell you, I sometimes feel like the bastard, orphaned

>step-child on this site. It must be because I exercise a

>little humor and casualness that I proposed to this site at

>times for a little comic relief. And second I guess because I

>don’t really know what da hell I’m talking about except for

>the use of my ears and hands and 34 plus years of using AR

>speakers. And not to forget that I was a techy in the Navy,

>but forget even my ‘basic-electricity’ thru the years.

>Getting back to the point at hand, yes everyone has given

>helpful and correct advice to this new guy with the LST’s

>,imagine a ‘new-guy’ with LST’s, I had to work very hard and

>long before I even had the slightest possibility of getting my

>boys, and was only because of being at the right place at the

>right time and luck.

>I personal feel and I know most will agree, that one of the

>only short comings of AR products were their tweeters which

>never had much power handling ability, ever. Oh sure good

>dispersion characteristics and quality of sound, but no power

>handling strength.

>I will tell of a strange exception though. Out of my four LSTs

>only one of them has all four tweeters fully intact that are

>working. All the rest of the enclosures have either 2 to 3 or

>all tweeters burnt out. In terms of waiting for actual used

>vintage replacements is one of the most difficult and time

>consuming exercises in futility I ever attempted, and I’ve

>gotten ‘ripped-off’ on EBay too. In the past, for years I

>searched until one time I got the ‘go-nads’ to call Mark

>Levinson himself after I first saw a ‘Cello-Amati’ in the

>window of ‘Stereo-Exchange’ here in NYC. Mark. Levinson called

>me himself and stated he would sell me the tweeters, but he

>advised I call AR directly as they would not charge as much as

>he would at $90 bucks a piece, and that his were the exact

>same units. AR promptly sent me 2 of them in 1991 at $40.

>each. They displayed more output and sounded very ‘silky’ as

>compared to the originals, a refreshing change at last. I

>needed about 10 of them, but money was planned for other more

>important needs and I hesitated. AR decided to close their

>doors and I lost my chance at tweeters for my AR’s. That

>attempt didn’t complete my needs so once again I dragged out

>the ‘Micro-Static’ tweeter array I had used for my 3a’s from

>’75 to ’89 and placed them on top of my LST’s. Again I had to

>play the waiting game to see if I’d ever get these speakers

>completed.

>Fast Forward to 2004 and after many countless hours of surfing

>the net I learned about AB-Tech’s replacements. After being

>‘taken’ on the net I really sensed they were the only way to

>go. I wasn’t ‘hip’ to “Classicspeakerpages” yet, so I took the

>plunge and bought a number or tweets.

>Being a ‘Golden-Ear’ title holder since ’74 I can honestly

>say these tweets do have a higher output and greater power

>handling ability. No they don’t actually sound exactly like

>the original low output 1972 versions, but the do sound

>similar to AR 1991 versions albeit with a slightly pronounced

>mids slipping through for some reason.

>I’m not going to suggest that everyone go buy them because I

>did, I’m merely stating that as a steadfast AR addict, I don’t

>have much of a choice in his matter. Not when it comes to

>prices, availability, and waiting time. I have read and was

>told that the fellow Carlos at AB-Tech tried to closely match

>these new replacements to the originals, that I imagine could

>be subjective and I don’t have a scope and what-not, to

>further comment, but they do the job. Most of all I don’t have

>to sit back and be uncomfortable about worrying if I’m going

>to blow them out at high volumes.

>They fit perfectly except for some minor ‘mods’ to them like

>being rear wired as compared to my LST’s being front wired. I

>have to make some little cuts to facilitate the rear

>terminals, etc. But let’s talk plainly here, can anyone really

>wait for used tweets if you needed as many as I do. I decided

>not to wait and hope for the best with these, new units. No..

>the LST’s will never be exactly the same anymore, but at least

>they’ll be up and running and with only barely perceptible

>differences. I can’t wait and go thru the usual hassles and

>disappointments as I once did, life is too short for that.

>Respectfully, frankmarsi@verizon.net

>P.S. If you find this hobby difficult in terms of restoration

>and the seeking out of parts, I can’t begin to tell you what

>it was like for me restoring two 1973 ‘Boat-Tail’ 455 cubic

>inch Buick Rivieras’ in the eighties. Oh yeah sure many motor

>parts were standard GM issue, but body parts and trim were

>entirely unique.

>P.S.2 I was able to get 4 AR-LST’s because this truck drove

>past my office and the driver said he had over 90 of them, did

>I want some? (just kidding!).

>

Hi Frank;

I am still trying to recover from your last humorous write-up.

Great humour.

I also went through needing 8 - AR-LST tweeters about 10 years ago.

My only thought was there isn't any available at the time.

A few suggestions were to use a cheap Vifa tweeter, about $15.00 each, I was told.

I contacted AB Tech at that time, and they wanted $72.00 US each plus s&h plus our CCRA would have wanted their share, I am sure.

I looked at any retial sources in the US that advertised speaker parts or replacements.

Most that responded said they didn't know what an AR-LST speaker was.

I ended up relying on my friends, friend and ordered the 8.

What I received was 8 lookalike tweeters, with foam anti-reflective covers and rear terminal connections.

My LST's were front wired as well, and I wrote up what I did to adapt mine.

Can I hear a difference, I don't know, I bought them used and in a sad state of disrepair (abused).

There was no good tweeters in the enclosures.

Am I glad I bought those tweeters, I guess so, otherwise I would have two dead boxes.

Today, I have my ebay experiences, I would have to pay as much for used ones today or more and they are rare on ebay.

It probably would take a year or two, based on my watching experiences to get 8 used good condition and front wired tweeters, if I was real lucky.

I will gladly adopt, and give a good home to any tweeters that need a good home. lol

Frank, the AR tweeters are very strong in their power handling capabilities compared to other brands of that era.

The real problem of the AR-3A, AR-5 and AR-LST's in particular, but not limited to, is the FNM fuses are for the system and not the individual drivers.

If the individual drivers were fused appropriately, see my Crownaudio.com references elsewhere, we would have a better protection of sorts, which would be more appropriate and safer than a FNM-2 amp fuse for the LST's, when the woofers can easliy handle well over 1,000 watts, alone.

There is no way the tweeters receive or can handle that much power at the same time, in my opinion.

The mids are definitely more durable than the tweeters.

I remember at the AR warantee depot, all of the LST's tweeters were blown, numerous times, and I believe they were always replaced under warantee at no charge, at that time.

There was also a memo from AR, regarding warantee repairs, that were diagnosed to have only a blown fuse.

The transformer used, is wired, so that there is still, a -40 db signal going through to the speakers.

The FNM-2 fuse could never protect these tweeters under adverse use or abuse.

I never saw a defective LST woofer at that time.

Rarely, a dead midrange would show up in a LST.

What is that about a newbie with LST's?

I waited 20 years to own my first pair.

Lucky, newbie.

I do not want to read about someone finding a pair in a dump or for $20.00.

Please keep up the humour, Frank.

Thank you.

[Guest Bret]

>I’m merely stating that as a steadfast AR addict, I don’t have much of a choice in his matter.<

That's precisely how I feel about it, too.

Took me something like 2 years to find original tweeters for my 10pi's, cost me an arm and a leg, and could have been a rip-off. Thank goodness it wasn't.

I used replacements until the originals became available. Once the originals were in the cabinets it was obvious how bad the replacements had been.

Bret

[Guest danamc]

You might want to contact AB Tech services in Hopedale Mass. They are the authorized AR warranty repair company. They have new drivers that have been selected by AR themselves to replace the original drivers. I had my 3As recently evaluated and upgraded by AB Tech. Good luck!

Dana

[ar_pro]

It can be feast or famine, boys...I've been lucky enough to find two pairs of AR-9's, and a pair of 90's in the past year, and just came *this close* to another pair of 9's on Craig's List.

None of the drivers were bad (except for the foam surrounds), but I have bought a few of the upper & lower mids from ebay - just in case.

I don't know what the problem could be with the LST tweeters - it does appear that the single tweeter on the 9 seems to have a lower failure rate. Any theories?

[frankmarsi]

>

>It can be feast or famine, boys...I've been lucky enough to

>find two pairs of AR-9's, and a pair of 90's in the past year,

>and just came *this close* to another pair of 9's on Craig's

>List.

>None of the drivers were bad (except for the foam surrounds),

>but I have bought a few of the upper & lower mids from

>ebay - just in case.

>I don't know what the problem could be with the LST tweeters -

>it does appear that the single tweeter on the 9 seems to have

>a lower failure rate. Any theories?

Yeah........ trying owning original AR-LST's !