stupidhead

hmmm... I am inclined to say get the 5s. And not because of any reason other than they come available less frequently than the other two options. Once they are refurbed they are a beautiful sounding set of speakers, and will reinforce your comment which is oh so true. Of course cabinet condition is important...

Hey Al, The only thing you don't want to do is bypass the pot, other options of lpads are out there for these pesky little controls. I assume you have tried to rehab the old ones and are pitted/degraded beyond being able to reuse. I have been known to buy a trashed set of ARs just for the pots if the price is right. It is often a gamble but I like rolling the dice! Geoff

looking great Glenn, any ideas on getting the grilles back to oem?

the likely salvageable pots were worth the price alone, wow man you let one slip through your fingers for sure. Nice that someone got them to restore though.

Hard to say from this perspective but I think Larry is on the right track. Whatever they are, they are certainly worth further investigation/negotiation. Definitely not 3's or 3a's for sure, but vintage AR specimens that appear to be in decent shape. What is the story on them?

look great Glenn. Enjoy

Thanx Roy!

thanx Robert, I thought 30 degrees made sense. As for using original holes, I suppose I could have but for a variety of reasons went into virgin wood. The originals had compromised some of the fall aparticle board from original install, and the lack of pilots created some bulging of the areas. Also I observed during extraction of driver that some of the screws were less than perfectly plum when installed. All these things added up to choosing the 30 degree rotation. Besides which, I enjoy a challenge.

So I have installed the t nuts, drilling new pilots and rotating driver orientation 30 degrees effectively splitting the difference from original screw holes. Not so sure of that math. Dab a little JB Weld on the shoulder and draw it into place I did run into a little snag though. The rotation of the driver position landed a new pilot hole basically at 12:00. When drilling pilot which was something like 5/16" I encountered a staple from the mid box which was a surprise. Didn't know that was in there! which has a brace epoxied and stapled to the backside of the baffle. Just my luck to run into that. I chased the staple with a 1/8" bit a few times around it and was able to push it in to reveal the head that was embedded below surface! Also the box was very close to the pilot so I had to buzz off a tab from the shoulder of the t nut so it could be inserted. At least on the second one I will know what to expect. I re-stuffed the box and re-installed the woofer and fired it up. Sounds real nice and the switches are working properly and nicely. I have already cracked the second one and have already started working the board. By the way, the tweeter in this one is fine once the crossover is eliminated.

So I received my parts and had time to rework the first board. The replacement resistors were bigger than OEM but still able to fit without any trouble. I dollop a stripe of goop on the backside to affix to the board before soldering. It seemed prudent to inspect all wiring considering so many exposed and crossing wires. I will stuff gaps on board with fiberglass to try to assure no shorting. The caps were also larger than OEM but with a little stacking and gooping was able to find a comfortable fit and rewiring was no trouble. I also dosed the switches with deoxit a few times, spun the dials many many times to work it in and re-installed the terminal gaskets and retainers and cleaned up the pointers. working out my options for t nuts and that will be next and then we can close these up and fir 'em up! not exactly sure how much time I will give these cabinets for now, likely their sound will dictate how much effort I give them.

So while I wait for caps and resistors, a couple things. I hooked up the one I have yet to open. Before doing so I checked the woofer's response to manually pushing in and releasing and it was fairly quick return. These will be redoped for sure, as well as the mids. Once hooked up and listening to Mama Tried from "Live Dead" I am reminded why I liked these better than the Advents of the day. The tweeter would not give any sound and manipulating the switch had no effect. I had Diane involved in the experimenting and she confirmed no sound using the open bottomed plastic cup method. I am very lucky to have her and her humoring me and actual interest in this stuff. We listened for a while at various volumes and I am thoroughly encouraged. I use a Marantz 2230 that has been completely refurbished by Pat Font from AK in my work shop for those interested. Source is a cheesy mid 90's Yamaha disc player with no DAC in line. Sound is pretty damn good. I have also checked the drivers in the cab I have opened and all drivers produce sound! I will guess that the "dead" one is probably OK and will confirm that once I crack that cab. Robert, thanx again for the kind words. We did go to Woodcraft on Thursday and I was disappointed in their offerings for t nuts or similar and ended up going to Fastenal and found appropriate offerings there. I did find an alternate Tung Oil that I will try on something down the road and Diane found what she was looking for. More on that later. Yes I did have clams while we were on the coast, always a treat! I have seen the thread on the KLH 28 refurb, wow that is fabulous. Thanx for the tip. Kent et al, I will be sure to dose the switches. Geoff

I will see what I can find tomorrow for some t nuts. Gonna be in Portsmouth and will likely have some clams too! yum thought I would post more dating evidence before addressing the crossover M5 test? 267? OK Kent, now I see it.....I think. I arranged the caps in such a way as to see more clearly the connections paths. What threw me is the red one being labeled 2x4 mfd and the 2 only being "labeled" 2 uf (not 2x2 uf/mfd). Then trying to understand the purpose? I can now see that the 2x4 red leads go to different points but the 2x2 red leads go to the same point. In both cases the black single goes elsewhere. Why would KLH do this? One red and a 4uf achieve that right? Which is the third 4 Kent, I get it. So the shopping list is certain. I have yet to do a listening test, and of course must test the drivers. by the way, the Mortite was 50 years stiff. I don't think anyone has been in here.

Thanx Robert for chiming in. I very much enjoy this hobby and this community and thanx for the kind words. I am going to Woodcraft tomorrow with Diane and will look at fastener options. Hi Kent, I have the rubber insulators, they were removed during my eval of dis-assembly of speaker guts and I just haven't re-installed them. I do understand the need for the Kimpac/scrim/cheesecloth behind the woofer. I have seen other model 5 rehab pics which show the cheesecloth looking product (Kimpac) for this purpose, not the dark colored scrim. I will do some eval once all back together and make some observations. As for the caps, I am confused by your response. I sort of understand the red cylinder housing two separate 4uf caps, and the 2 x 4uf imprint helps me see that but the 2uf cap has no 2x2uf imprint and your reference to that is not sinking in. Geoff

Scrim you say. Was it commonly used as the buffer under the woofer as well? I wonder how much damping this material on the grille does to the sound? So I am home and wanted to get a few more pics and observations posted. There are a couple of things worthy of noting. I have seen info about these speakers stating 1968 being the start of the run of the Model 5, but the dates on the drivers are from Nov. of 67' and the serial number is 6006! ? and then there is this which has a slightly different configuration. I am going to guess I should put a 4 where the 3 is and put a 3 where the 2 is. The resistor shopping list seems to match up just fine. Geoff things always look so much better after a little spiffing up

Hey Kent, While I appreciate and respect your opinion greatly, I stand firm on my observation. I have seen the 2x4 red cap and that is not part of why I say this. In mine there is a 2uf piggy backing the 3uf and it is wired independently. Here at work I do not have pics of this, but I have checked and checked and checked. This does appear to be an anomaly. Haven't done a complete resistor inventory yet but I will post some pics of this later this evening. How about the extra fabric under the grille cloths? Is this to be found on other specimens? Geoff

Hi David et al, Funny thing is I have not hooked them up yet. I fully expect them to sound like 50 year old speakers that need attention. This evening I will hook up the one I have yet to crack and will add my impressions after a quick demo. As for the shopping list above, it would appear as my shopping list will be a little different. At least if I duplicate what is in there for OEM values! More on this later. Geoff

Last week I picked up a set of these highly regarded classics. I have never owned a set before but had a good deal of exposure in the 70's. As a matter of fact, my preferences for East coast sound speakers was that I was never too thrilled with Advent offerings even though they were hugely popular, I liked the KLH 5s well enough, but thought they weren't as smooth as the AR offerings which were easily my favorites. With that being said I have been watching for a set of KLH somethings for a while and this set is what I finally pulled the trigger on. As you can see they are in decent shape for being almost 50 years old. Grilles are solid, fabric not ripped, badges in place, terminal nuts intact, dial pointers as well! There are some flaws to the cabs with some moderate edge separation likely form some moisture and a couple dings and slight veneer peeling on random edges. Not terrible, but certainly not perfect. For the price I paid it seemed like a reasonable concession. I am intrigued by a variety of things already with this set. The first being that the serials 005999 and 006006 being pretty close in progression, and would seem like low numbers in the grand scheme of things. The first being the interior of the grilles. There is a layer of fairly thick, tightly woven fabric under the dress cloth. Here is a pic where you can barely see through it. If you look closely you can sort of see the rails of the chair these are propped up against. and curiously when I pulled the first woofer, this same cloth was used as a buffer between stuffing (fiberglass) and driver. I have scanned any number of other's rebuild and seems most have referenced the use of cheesecloth for this. My immediate concern is that this fabric on the grille will muffle the sound to a fairly significant degree.....thoughts? Upon taking apart the first I was surprised/disappointed? by the lack of the use of retainers for securing the woofers in place. Also, the sealant used by the factory, some mortite variation, seemed very thin. My impression over the years is that some manufacturers make cabinets and some make boxes. The use of wood screws instead of retainers makes me feel the KLH factory was not as focused on the "cabinets" as was AR. At least for this set. Here is a not so good pic that shows some mdf compromise from this approach. and then there is this.. Not too concerned by this, but I am already toying with the idea of re-orienting woofer mount and using some retainers. If you are interested in the actual screws that were used, here they are. I have to head out to work for now, hopefully will add to this post later this evening. I will be looking for thoughts on these topics that I have raised, and of course will likely need some guidance as I dig in deeper. Geoff

Hey Kent, Yes, I am sorry I didn't mention that. Yes, not PCB style. This approach is what I suspected but didn't want to bend aluminum or mar surfaces un-necessarily. Definitely 2 layer, and I suspect that does not include the screen printed panel with controls. Thanx for the heads up on the grommets on the terminals. Any other hands on experiences that might help?

I haven't heard back from seller yet on the 30s, I did send him an email expressing interest, but not at his asking price. We shall see. On the 5s, I did crack one open yesterday before the game and took a few pics. I will start a new thread for a rebuild as soon as I get a little better organized. One question though, every rebuild I have seen on these has the xover board out of the cabinet. I am not sure what is holding it down but I removed the four screws on the perimeter and it seems loose but somehow still tied to something underneath. There is much play now with the screws out, but still seems there is some sort of fastener holding it. I removed the nuts and washers from external speaker terminals and they are loose but no impact on the internal board fasten. The switches have a rubber grommet at the base of the stem which I fussed with a little, but didn't want to force anything. Probably a simple procedure but I ran out of time as the game started. I don't want to damage anything in haste so figured I would pose this here. thanx in advance for any guidance and I will start a new thread with the rebuild including pics. many observations already about the similarities and more importantly the differences between the KLH build vs. the AR build. Geoff

thanx guys, as I said I just couldn't resist. NO water rings is certainly a bonus, and yes the Velcro will need some attention. I have decided to crack these open and start a rehab, shelving the 2ax for the time being. Once I gather a few things I will start a new thread for the rehab. Back to the original topic for a moment, I saw a set of 30's (KLH) for sale. These have not come up in anybody's previous comments and I wonder about them. Appears to be a 2-way system with a 12" woofer? They appear to have some funky grille cloth, striped and look like a pair of pants I remember from the 70's. He is currently asking $160, which seems high by about $60-$100. Geoff

So I have a set of 5s. I toyed with the idea of passing once I saw them in person. The cabinets are approaching borderline in my opinion, as they were showing signs of both moisture and then likely dry environment. Problem is that neither are terrible and it sure would appear they are unmolested. I am not sure yet, but I suspect these are a relatively early set, and the close serials is just a bonus. Possibly interior inspection will reveal dates. They look pretty good face on and notice the visible joint separation on the left speaker. The grille clothes are actually pretty solid, as are the frames. The rest of the surfaces are OK, but flaking veneer on some edges, couple dinged up corners, a few edges like this (this is the worst example).. The drivers all appear to be original in the end, I just couldn't resist. The pluses still outweighed the negatives. I just received a set of surrounds for a set of 2ax I have in the queue, but I may just put those off and dig into these.

thanx guys, they were described as not been used in 20 plus years and are "dirty and dusty". The pics the seller posted are a little blurry but overall they look to be in respectable condition. Possibly I will try my hand at a little re-veneer work on a corner I see that has a ding! Glenn, I will lean on you and your "hoard" for some guidance when the time comes, but as I said before I have a bunch ahead of these (but that is always a moving target). The serials are 5999 and 6006 and I wonder where that puts these in the crossover type, hoping for point to point. Of course I will post some pics after picking them up on Thursday. Geoff

OK Glenn, done. Picking these up on Thursday. 150

It's funny this thread should crop back up. I have recently been toying with getting a set of 5s that are selling locally (50 miles North) for $160. Seems like a reasonable price and they look pretty good. My house project has had me totally consumed and I have a number of other sets waiting for rehab so I am not that motivated. hmmm....

Thanx dxho and curiously the consensus seems to be there is non consensus! LOL. I guess the general rule of thumb is they are for the most part a solid manufacturer, at least the vintage stuff. I am anxious to find a set and compare with other speakers.