AR90 Crossover rebuild

[Stimpy]

I guess that's not too bad, considering the speakers will be tested and tweaked as needed.  But, for $450, I'd want high quality capacitors.  While good, the often recommended Solen can be bettered.  ClarityCap, Mundorf, Jantzen, Audyn or similar at least.   Also, I agree with some of the older posts in this thread; I wouldn't replace the crossover inductors, just the caps and resistors.  The inductors were already very good, and unless damaged in some way, don't need replacing.  That would allow more of the budget to be allocated to the capacitors too.

 

[PT Doug]

On 3/26/2004 at 11:32 AM, r_laski said:

>>I am interested to hear about the results from the AR90s you are currently testing … And indicate what recordings you are using as the listening test.<<

After a couple of late nights, I finally finished the crossover rebuild on my brother’s AR-90s. The only way I can describe how they sounded before we started this project is “inconsistent.” Sometimes they sounded OK and sometimes they sounded awful. These were an eBay purchase, so we don’t know the history of this particular pair.

Originally, our intent was to keep the cost to a minimum. I reused the coils and resistors. I used a combination of mostly Dayton, with a few Solen, and North Creek Zen caps. I replaced the hook-up wire with the same type I used in my AR-11 project. The attenuation boards were removed. The 40uF Zen cap takes up most of the space where these boards were.

When I tested the first prototype against the “stock” AR-90, I was somewhat disappointed with the results. After I had already put the crossover together, Sean posted a message about not using inexpensive (Dayton) caps. Having used some Dayton caps and “hearing” them, I have to say that I agree. I discussed the results with my brother and we decided on a Zen / Solen combination.

The Dayton caps were removed and the prototype rebuilt. After a short listening test I was convinced we had the right caps.

With both crossovers rebuilt and installed, right away I can tell the sound was significantly improved. There is so much more detail and clarity. A larger sound stage in that the music seems to extend further back behind the speakers, what I call ambiance. The improved detail and clarity, dare I say accuracy, has been described as if a curtain has been removed from in front of the speakers. I believe that description fits here.

For listening tests I believe it really doesn’t matter so much what you listen to as it does listening to what you like and are familiar with.

I start with Cowboy Junkies’ “Trinity Sessions.” Mining for Gold - no instruments, only Margo Timmins singing. Listen for ambiance, timbre, and clarity. In 1 minute 34 seconds you can tell a lot about your speakers. “Misguided Angel” – right from the beginning of this track if you don’t feel the bass from the kick drum hitting you in the chest your speakers are not performing.

Linda Ronstadt’s “Greatest Hits Vol II.” The DCC Gold CD (remastered from original studio master tapes). You get Linda’s full range in “Blue Bayou.”

I recently added Nora Jones’ “Come Away with Me” CD to my listening tests. I’ve also added Allison Moorer’s, “Miss Fortune.”

For a change of pace, Pink Floyd, “Dark Side of the Moon.” For a quick test, I listen to select portions: Heart beat at beginning, alarm clocks in “Time,” cash registers in “Money.”

Fleetwood Mac, “Fleetwood Mac” album, “World Turning.” In the mid to late ‘70s this was THE track almost everyone used to test bass. The dealers just had to pull the grills off the and have you watch the woofer excursion with every beat of the kick drum.

Henry Mancini, “Symphonic Soul.” Some orchestral pop music. Listen to bass guitar solo at beginning of “Peter Gunn.” Must be able to hear both the bass guitar and the drum behind it.

Mannheim Steamroller, “Christmas Extraordinaire” Want a very quick test track? The first 30 seconds of this CD.

This is a representative list of what I used for my initial listening test. Additionally, some Sax/Jazz – Grover Washington Jr. “Winelight” and Male vocal - Marc Cohn, “Walking in Memphis”.

Rich

Blood Sweet and Tears is a good test in vinyl  

[PT Doug]

Is there anyone that is rebuilding AR90 today. Most of these texts are from 2004

 

[Stimpy]

I'm rebuilding my AR90s, but it feels like I've been working on them since 2004...!  🙃

[lance G]

2 hours ago, Stimpy said:

I'm rebuilding my AR90s, but it feels like I've been working on them since 2004...!  🙃

Crikey Stimpy !

I thought you had finished them ! I was grateful for your input and help with the crossover rebuild on my AR9's. They might be due another rebuild by the time you finish those 90's !

I used to have some 90's years ago, regretted selling them, hence my eventual bucket list purchase of the 9's.

Kind regards to you.

[Stimpy]

2 hours ago, lance G said:

Crikey Stimpy !

I thought you had finished them ! I was grateful for your input and help with the crossover rebuild on my AR9's. They might be due another rebuild by the time you finish those 90's !

I used to have some 90's years ago, regretted selling them, hence my eventual bucket list purchase of the 9's.

Kind regards to you.

Yes, I know.  Too slow.  The 90s have been refoamed, the crossovers recapped, and the cabinets stripped for refinishing.  But, that's where I'm stuck.  I'm good at electrical and mechanical, and not so good at furniture refinishing.  I'm still doing that part.  One day soon, I'll do it, as I'm getting impatient to finish.  Now that I'm at that point, I know it'll get done.  Thankfully.

[DeSelbyofDalkey]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:36 AM, PT Doug said:

is $495 a reasonable price for all new crossovers  installed, driver testing and damping as needed. then tweaked in a sound room  

I ended up spending approximately $400 on parts alone to rebuild my crossovers. Each speaker took me approximately six hours to complete, and neither was very easy to do, so $495 is not all that bad if you trust the technician to do a good job and (s)he will use high quality components.

It would have been easy to have my rebuild drag out over days and months as Stimpy is experiencing. I waited months for a solid block of free time to do it and get it done.

[Stimpy]

2 hours ago, DeSelbyofDalkey said:

It would have been easy to have my rebuild drag out over days and months as Stimpy is experiencing. I waited months for a solid block of free time to do it and get it done.

It was a series of events, that lead to my downfall...!

First, I wanted to move back to a 2 channel set up, to better support my soon to be completed 90's.  That meant no longer using my Yamaha AVR, and hooking up separates again.

So, off I went to grab an amp from my equipment closet.  I hooked it up, and hum?  I try another amp, and hum again!  A 3rd and final amp, and still hum.  I could only assume that either my once new amps were now too vintage (like me) to use, or I was getting ground loop hum from the incoming cable.

Next, I found a recapped amp, to test the vintage theory.  I picked up a Mosfet based Adcom GFA-5400.  It sounded great, with an old NAD pre, which prompted a search for a new preamp, to compliment it.  As such, I bought a used Schiit Saga remote controlled tube pre.  If mated very well with the Adcom.

Now, my downfall.  When searching CL, looking around for these new to me pieces, I spotted a pair of AR58S speakers.  They'd been refoamed, and looked very presentable.  Cheap as well.  So off I went, grabbed the 58's, and hooked them to the Saga/Adcom combo.  Epically good.  And I liked the Saga so much, I picked up a used Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC, to complete the new system.

Well, the new system has sounded particularly awesome.  Good enough, that I kind'a lost interest in finishing the 90's.  I'm feeling guilty now, for letting them sit this long, and the 90's are now the next project up for completion.  I promise...!  

[AR surround]

On 1/6/2021 at 7:49 AM, PT Doug said:

Is there anyone that is rebuilding AR90 today. Most of these texts are from 2004

 

Doug,

Here is my agony and ecstasy of reworking my AR90's from 2017.  It particularly focuses on the difficulties I had with getting the UMR to sound to my liking.  Hope you find it helpful along with the many other threads about working on the 9 series.

 

[PT Doug]

OK After my complete crossover rebuild I may have to replace some drivers (high end)I'm not a purist hell I'll even go Chinese  if need be. I'm only interested in sound quality.  I listen to vinyl and also use my AR90s for Home Theater. If one speaker is bad I will probably replace the  drivers in the other cabinet for balance. I spent $495 on crossovers I'n not going to waste my money by not getting the most effective driver I can get.  Help me please!

[PT Doug]

the tone of my text sounds harsh.  I didn't mean it to be.  I'm really a nice guy, but I balance between warm speakers  with  imagery (AR90) and clear highs .  The Bass is taken care of by my SVS Sub.  now I'm worried about the highs in my ARs.  Can I have both warmth and clarity in a mid to mid high driver

[PT Doug]

P.S. Warmth in a tweeter is that an oxymoron 

[PT Doug]

I want the sharpness of  a steal gutter an the warmth  of a cello in the same tweeter