AR-4x

[ninohernes]

I am in the process of aquiring a pair of AR-4x's. How do they sound? And is a 60 watt per channel amp too much for them? Are the woofer surrounds cloth or foam? The serial numbers are FX224965 and FX228953.

[ninohernes]

Make that, was in the process of acquiring. I have a feeling that the pair I was bidding for on E-Bay will go above 40 dollars. I don’t want to spend too much. I know this kind of limits my choices. Hey, does anyone here have a pair of 4x's that they want to sell cheap?

[charger3834]

Joe,

The AR-4x should have slightly more dispersion and be a little more "open" sounding than your AR-2's. This is largely due to the 1200 Hz crossover. The 2.5" "wide dispersion" cone is an AR built unit, I would think it would have a better top end than the AR-2's. This driver was also used in the AR-1x and the post 1970 AR-2x.

Your amp will be fine, but you will have to take it a little easy.

[Guest Barrydor]

The guy at Audio.Net has a pair for sale. His URL is given in the post here asking if 303's are still available.

I almost bought them but I found a pair on eBay in better condition for less and I jumped on them. I can't wait to hear them.

From what I have seen, I do not think you are going to find a pair of 4x's for $40 unless you get really lucky or they are broken. Good luck, though.

Barry

[ar_pro]

Had a pair of 4x way back...they are a really fine-sounding compact speaker, with remarkable dispersion, and solid bass. In my experience, the 4x was quite popular with musicians, and I've seen many in home studios over the years. In good shape, the 4x is easily worth over $100/pair, though.

[roundhome]

HAY RICHARD

check out your compatition on those speakers he is a power buyer with lots of money he has already got one set of 4x

Jim

ps they will be leaving the country never to return (Tiawan)

[Steve F]

>Joe,

>

>The AR-4x should have slightly more dispersion and be a little

>more "open" sounding than your AR-2's. This is largely due to

>the 1200 Hz crossover. The 2.5" "wide dispersion" cone is an

>AR built unit, I would think it would have a better top end

>than the AR-2's. This driver was also used in the AR-1x and

>the post 1970 AR-2x.

>

>Your amp will be fine, but you will have to take it a little

>easy.

>

Brad has his facts right on target.

Our family had 4x's in 1969, paired with a Lafayette LA-125B integrated amp (22 wpc), but eventually drove them with a Sherwood S-7900A receiver (60 wpc, conservatively rated).

As long as the power is clean and the intent isn't to fill a really large room at concert-hall volume, there should be no problem. Our 4's never complained in the slightest.

The serial numbers of our 4x's were in the 238,000 range. They had cloth surrounds. However, with the full-fledged introduction of the AR-6 in 1971 and the AR-7 in 1973, both with the superb 1 1/4" tweeter, sales of the AR-4x (and its sucessor, the 4xa) were significantly diminished.

The AR-4xa was historically significant for for an unrelated, but fascinating, reason which I'll get into some other time.

Steve F.

[charger3834]

>

>The AR-4xa was historically significant for for an unrelated,

>but fascinating, reason which I'll get into some other time.

>

>Steve F.

>

Now you really have my interest !!!

[ninohernes]

I won! I won a pair of AR-4x's on ebay today for 67 bucks!, some new pots and I will be all set.

[tysontom]

>I won! I won a pair of AR-4x's on ebay today for 67 bucks!,

>some new pots and I will be all set.

Joe,

I agree with everyone's perceptions of the AR-4x, and then some. When the AR-4 was introduced in 1964, it represented a great contribution in scaling-down (in cost and size) the famous AR deep bass, wide dispersion and low coloration so well-known in the larger AR speakers. The AR-4 used the 3-1/2-inch, modified-CTS tweeter (also the midrange in the AR-2ax series), and it crossed over at 2000 Hz. Then in October, 1965, AR introduced the greatly-improved AR-4x with a lower crossover (1200 Hz.) and a much-superior 2-1/2-inch tweeter built solely in-house at AR. The AR-4x simply got rave reviews from every tester out there, especially Consumers Reports -- not known to get too excited about anything "commercial." The hallmark of the AR-4x was its low coloration and smooth, wide-dispersion sound. It suffered little from diffraction or multi-driver interference effects, and only missed the most expensive AR's in terms of the last 1/2-octave of bass and the dispersion at the very highest frequencies. In the end, the AR-4x became AR's all-time best seller, and was also one of AR's best speakers of all times.

--Tom Tyson

[cruisaire]

>The AR-4xa was historically significant for for an unrelated,

>but fascinating, reason which I'll get into some other time.

>

>Steve F.

>

Okay, I'll bite. What historic significance does the AR-4xa hold?

[Steve F]

The subject of AR’s early product naming scheme has always been a focal point of confusion and fascination for audio historians. Any marketing person can tell you that there are two basic ways to name products: You can use alphanumeric designations or actual names. Your products can be named the Audi A4, A6, Acura 3.2 TL, Pontiac 6000, or you can call your products things like Accord, Celebrity, Trinitron, Dustbuster, etc.

If you’ve settled on the alphanumeric way of doing things, you then have several more choices to make. The products can be named in ascending or descending order of price/performance, they can be named so the model number gives a description of the product’s features (for example, the Panasonic CT-27R was a 27-inch Color Television with Remote control), or the products can be named chronologically, with each new model given a higher number. This last method is the way AR named their original products.

In addition, AR had a consistent, intentional method by which they would add an "a" or "x" suffix to their original model numbers. It held true right up until 1974, which, not coincidentally, is when AR’s marketing and product line offerings went awry.

So, in a nutshell, here it is:

- An ‘x’ suffix designated a change concerning a cone mid or high frequency driver.

- An ‘a’ suffix designated a change concerning a dome mid or high frequency driver.

The AR-3 went to the AR-3a—changes in the dome drivers, from 2-inch and 1 3/8-inch to 1 1/2-inch and 3/4-inch.

The AR-2 went to the 2a—the 1 3/8-inch dome tweeter was added.

The AR-2 became the 2x—the dual 5-inch cones were replaced with the single 3 1/2-inch cone

The AR-4 became the 4x—the 3 1/2-inch cone was replaced with the 2 1/2-inch cone.

The AR-1 became the 1x—the 8-inch cone was replaced with the 2 1/2-inch cone.

The AR-2a became the 2ax—the dual 5-inch cones were replaced with the single 3 1/2-inch cone

(The big exception to this whole thing was, of course, the AR-2 series. Early 2ax’s used the 3-style grille cloth and logo—a rectangular brass logo in one corner that had "AR" on it, and the brass "2" in the other corner. Later 2ax’s, like mine, had a new woofer, similar to the AR-5 woofer, the new 3/4-inch tweeter replacing the old 1 3/8-inch fried egg, new crossover frequencies of 1400 and 5000Hz, compared to 2000 and 7500Hz, new white linen grille cloth, and the newer style logo with the red debossed "AR-2ax" lettering. The 2x also went from "old" to "new" with the same changes to the grille and logo, the upgrading from the 3 1/2-inch driver to the 2 1/2-inch driver, and the crossover change from 2000 to 1200Hz. But AR left these model numbers alone, for some reason.

I remember speaking to Roy Allison and asking him, when the 4’s and 2x’s 3 1/2-inch drivers were being upgraded to the new 2 1/2-inch unit, why was the 3 1/2-inch driver left in the 2ax? Certainly the new 2 1/2-inch driver was superior—that was the whole reason for using it in the other two speakers—so why was it left in the 2ax? He never gave me a clear answer, saying something along the lines of, "Yes, all things being equal, it would be better to use the new driver with a lower woofer-to-midrange crossover point. However, there are literally dozens of things that are NOT equal in the real world. In any event, the difference between 1200 and 1400Hz would not be considered significant." I have a suspicion that the marketing people didn’t feel comfortable changing all the drivers from the old 2ax to the new 2ax and keeping the same model number. And marketing probably wanted to keep the 2ax designation because by that time, it had some worthwhile marketplace equity. These kinds of things do happen inside companies "in the real world", especially when opposing strong personalities are involved.)

But for the most part, the model-numbering scheme was very consistent, very repeatable. So when I heard about the upcoming "AR-4xa" in 1974, I was excited. My dad had 4x’s, and we thought that the 4xa was going to replace the 2 1/2-inch cone tweeter with a new DOME tweeter—an "a" designation indicating a change involving a dome driver— suitable for use in two-way systems. "I bet it’s a 1 1/2-inch dome, with a low enough resonance to use down to around 1500Hz," I said to my father. He wondered if AR would offer a factory upgrade for the 4x, the way there had been for the 3 to the 3a, or the 2 to 2x, and 2a to 2ax.

But much to our disappointment, the 4xa did not have a dome tweeter. It had the 1 1/4-inch CONE tweeter from the AR-6. In retrospect, maybe we should have figured out that it would use the 6’s tweeter. After all, how could a lower-priced model have a better tweeter than the best two-way (the AR-6) in the line? Anyway, from this point on, AR’s model numbering scheme went out the proverbial window, and AR entered an almost two-year dark period of marketing ineptitude that persisted until the new line, headed by the 10 and 11, was introduced in 1975. Think of it: AR had three 8-inch, two-way models in the line (the AR-6, AR-4xa, and AR-7), all with the same tweeter and very little to distinguish between them. Each one a good speaker, to be sure, but it was unquestionably faulty marketing and product planning.

AR finally did come out with 8-inch two way speakers with dome tweeters (first the AR-16, followed by the AR-15), but they continued to clutter up the line and dissipate their resources with too many 8-inch two-ways: the AR-7 became the AR-18 (a big success), the AR-4xa became the AR-17 (a forgotten, unnecessary speaker).

So the AR-4xa was the first AR speaker to break with the original meaning of the "a" and "x" model numbering format, and 4xa’s introduction marked the end of the "old" AR.

Steve F.

[charger3834]

>(The big exception to this whole thing was, of course, the

>AR-2 series. Early 2ax’s used the 3-style grille cloth and

>logo—a rectangular brass logo in one corner that had "AR" on

>it, and the brass "2" in the other corner. Later 2ax’s, like

>mine, had a new woofer, similar to the AR-5 woofer, the new

>3/4-inch tweeter replacing the old 1 3/8-inch fried egg, new

>crossover frequencies of 1400 and 5000Hz, compared to 2000 and

>7500Hz, new white linen grille cloth, and the newer style logo

>with the red debossed "AR-2ax" lettering. The 2x also went

>from "old" to "new" with the same changes to the grille and

>logo, the upgrading from the 3 1/2-inch driver to the 2

>1/2-inch driver, and the crossover change from 2000 to 1200Hz.

>But AR left these model numbers alone, for some reason.

>

>>Steve F.

>

>

>Very good discussion Steve, I think you are dead on with you assessment. I was waiting for that post.

I hate to pick at details, but I think you have the 'cosmetics' of the early 2ax a little muddled.

The early 1965-1969 AR-2ax did indeed have the black screenprined "AR inc" logo. However, the other logo was an "a" just like the AR-2a. I think that AR was trying to visually differentiate the supertweeter versions from the plain 2 way versions. Perhaps the AR-3 had the "3" so it would not be mistaken for an AR-1.

In addition, this 2ax did in fact use the AR-3a style linen. However, the 1965-early 1966 versions, used a coarser weave like the original AR-4. I have one with this coarse weave. As far as I know, the AR-1, Ar-1w and possibly the AR-1x, 3st and 3t were the only models to share the AR-3 style cloth. The AR-2 and AR-2a had a different cloth.

[charger3834]

I did not mean to put that stupid sad face thing on.

once again, great info Steve !

[Steve F]

Brad,

> and the brass 2 in the other corner.

You are quite correct, of course. There was no AR speaker that ever used a "2" by itself.

Good attention to detail. It makes us "old folks" feel good to see a next-generation person such as yourself preserving the historical correctness of the original AR's.

Steve F.

[charger3834]

I really like the AR-2ax. I think the fact that it ruled in 2 different decades is really cool.

It's guys like yourself and Tom that really enable me to pursue that historical correctness.

[cruisaire]

WOW! I just gave 16 for a pair of 4ax and now have a historical perspective to go along with the cool sounds they produce. Thanks for the information, great stuff!

[ninohernes]

I got them today. I installed new pots. The speakers sound excelent. They sound twice thier size. They dont sound as good as my AR-2's or 3's, but they good for thier size, but I realy shouldent say that, because they sound bigger than some speakers that are actualy larger in size. Overall a good sounding speaker. I bought these because I am taking some courses this summer at Columbia College, Chicago, and I plan to attend school there when I graduate from High School next year. I want to bring them with me, they are small and they sound good.

[Guest]

Where can you get new pots? Thanks...Rich

[ninohernes]

>Where can you get new pots? Thanks...Rich

Layne Audio www.speakersupply.com

Give them a call. The line is ALWAYS busy, so dont give up!

you might have to try for a half hour or so to get a hold of him. Its worth it though, he knows his stuff!

[Guest gioip]

Hi,do you know the frequency range of the Ar 4xa woofer?

Because i want to replace the missing original tweeter of my Ar4xa with a couple of Dynaudio D21.

The D21 need al least 2500 hz of x/,so i want move the original freq x/o from 1600 to 2500 hz.

can help me???

thanks a lot

Gio

>>I won! I won a pair of AR-4x's on ebay today for 67 bucks!,

>>some new pots and I will be all set.

>

>Joe,

>

>I agree with everyone's perceptions of the AR-4x, and then

>some. When the AR-4 was introduced in 1964, it represented a

>great contribution in scaling-down (in cost and size) the

>famous AR deep bass, wide dispersion and low coloration so

>well-known in the larger AR speakers. The AR-4 used the

>3-1/2-inch, modified-CTS tweeter (also the midrange in the

>AR-2ax series), and it crossed over at 2000 Hz. Then in

>October, 1965, AR introduced the greatly-improved AR-4x with a

>lower crossover (1200 Hz.) and a much-superior 2-1/2-inch

>tweeter built solely in-house at AR. The AR-4x simply got

>rave reviews from every tester out there, especially Consumers

>Reports -- not known to get too excited about anything

>"commercial." The hallmark of the AR-4x was its low

>coloration and smooth, wide-dispersion sound. It suffered

>little from diffraction or multi-driver interference effects,

>and only missed the most expensive AR's in terms of the last

>1/2-octave of bass and the dispersion at the very highest

>frequencies. In the end, the AR-4x became AR's all-time best

>seller, and was also one of AR's best speakers of all times.

>

>

>--Tom Tyson

[Guest gioip]

Anyone Knows the range frequency of Ar4xa woofer and his Fs?

Is posible move the x/o freq from 1600 to 2200 hz?

Because i want replace the orignal tw with a pair of dynaudio D21 that need a higher x/o, at least 2000hz.

Thanks

[Guest tdeutsch]

The AR-4x woofer surrounds are cloth.

[Guest nblimfark]

>Anyone Knows the range frequency of Ar4xa woofer and his Fs?

>Is posible move the x/o freq from 1600 to 2200 hz?

>Because i want replace the orignal tw with a pair of dynaudio

>D21 that need a higher x/o, at least 2000hz.

>Thanks

I assume that the crossovers are just simple capacitors. If that is true they probably have a 12.4 uf non-polarized capacitor to give a 1600 hz crossover point for an 8 ohm speaker. I'll attach a link to a table of capacitor sizes to this e-mail, but it looks like you will need something between 9.9 uf (2000 hz) and 7.9 uf (2500 hz)looks like 8.9 is the magic number if that size exists. But they must be non-polarized. Easy to find capacitors at any electronics store...maybe even Radio Shack. Here is the link....Good luck.

http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/crossover6db.html

[johnieo]

>>Anyone Knows the range frequency of Ar4xa woofer and his

>Fs?

>>Is posible move the x/o freq from 1600 to 2200 hz?

>>Because i want replace the orignal tw with a pair of

>dynaudio

>>D21 that need a higher x/o, at least 2000hz.

>>Thanks

>

>I assume that the crossovers are just simple capacitors. If

>that is true they probably have a 12.4 uf non-polarized

>capacitor to give a 1600 hz crossover point for an 8 ohm

>speaker. I'll attach a link to a table of capacitor sizes to

>this e-mail, but it looks like you will need something between

>9.9 uf (2000 hz) and 7.9 uf (2500 hz)looks like 8.9 is the

>magic number if that size exists. But they must be

>non-polarized. Easy to find capacitors at any electronics

>store...maybe even Radio Shack. Here is the link....Good

>luck.

>http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/crossover6db.html

One would be advised to approach the issue of changing tweeters willy-nilly and taking values of crossover capacitors from "charts" which consider the driver to be an 8-Ohm resistor--which it is not--with some degree of caution. It is highly unlikely that you would be able to match the sensitivity and sonic quality of the original.

The tweeter in the AR-4xa was a step down in quality from that used in the AR-4x. Instead of "destroying" (as a purist would say) your AR-4xa units, why not convert them to AR-4x?

The AR-4x was and is a great eight-inch speaker. To do this one needs to procure a pair of AR-4x tweets--often found on e-bay or other sites. The tweeter crossover is simply a good quality polypropylene (these days) 20-uF series capacitor. The woofer is common with the two speakers, however you may have to check on the value of the woofer inductor for the 4xa. I do not know its value. The proper value for the AR-4x is 1.187 mH or the #5 AR inductor, which produces the correct 1,200-Hz crossover. If they are the same nothing to do, if different you could add or subract turns. Replacing coils is not straighforward as AR used #17 magnet wire.

cheers,