First Exposure

[ToastedAlmond]

In the "Best Replacement Tweet" post, some of the guys are relating their early , or first experiences with AR stuff. I like that kind of stuff.

I didn't grow up in a real electronic or musically inclined household. I remember the word "stereo" getting tossed around. I remember my grandfather making a big deal about something one night. My guess is it was one of the early stereo simulcasts. There was an orchestra on the tv, and I think the tv carried one audio channel. Then you tuned your fm radio to one of New York's local stations (Brooklyn boy here), and it carried the other channel. Stereo. Mismatched speakers, volume levels, the whole 9 yards. He was fascinated. I probably went back to buliding a model airplane. This would be the mid to late 1950's.

Then a couple years later, I remember my Dad dragging me over to his bud's house. My "Uncle" Jerry. He was a good guy who was a photographer for the New York Daily News. As a result, I used to go with him to Ebbets Field, and hang around with the Brooklyn Dodgers. Constant dugout access. Still, the thrill of a lifetime. Anyhow, it seems he got a new "stereo" and my Dad was going over to hear it. He played the Harry Belafonte "Day-O" song. Probably from the regarded RCA "Live at Carnegie Hall" lp. Again, unimpressed.

I had a fairly unremarkable stero system. I thought I was pretty cutting edge cause I had purchased a Vivitar cassette deck around 1967 or 68. Incorporated that into my still fairly unremarkable, HOWEVER NOW CUTTING EDGE (I could make cassette tapes) stereo system. Unmoving, unremarkable, yet state of the art. Then I met a guy named Peter Maran, who was my age, and lived two blocks away on E.15 St. He had an AR-XA table, an Acoustic Research Integrated amp, and a pair of 3a's. THAT'S when I got the BIG picture about stereo. His system would soon expand by way of a Dynaco Quadaptor, and a pair of 2ax's for surround speakers.

It wasn't till a few years later that I could afford my own good stuff, and in the interim, spent a lot of time listening to that system. It became a reference of sorts for me. Peter is still a good friend, ended up owning and living in the house he grew up in (Brooklyn), and is employed by ABC/Disney in N.Y.C. as a technician/mad scientist type. Great guy.

George

[Steve F]

George,

Great topic! I'll be sharing my early stereo/AR experiences with the Forum as soon as I have the chance to put the words together in some semblence of a coherent form.

I know Tom Tyson's first AR exposure is a great story. Hopefully, he'll share that with us as well.

Steve F.

[ToastedAlmond]

Sounds great Steve. There goes that "coherence" thing cropping up again. Life could be SOO simple, if it weren't for that "coherent" thing.

George

[Guest]

I recall seeing and hearing my first pair of classic AR speakers back in 1979 and I was still in high school, when some older guy I knew across the street (who was one of the guys who was always bragging about what he had - everyone I guess knows someone like that). I thought they were really classy looking and maybe even older than they were! A few years later, maybe around 1984, I was over this guys house again when he was showing-off his new Nakamichi BX cassette deck - a great sounding unit that was well worth the $800 he spent on it without a doubt! I asked him if he planned to replace his speakers and he told me that the AR3s he had were still hanging in there and that they still sounded great for the bluegrass music he was always listening to. He put on a cassette recording he just made of Flatt & Scruggs at Carnegie Hall and man those speakers sounded big, full, and really smooth! I commented on how nice the speakers looked and sounded and that I was impressed. He told me that he was considering a new pair of the large Advents or another pair of ARs and asked if I might be interested in buying his old ARs? I told him of course, maybe appearing way too eager to get my hands on them than I should have at the time! Every time I inquired abnout those ARs he always seemed to jack the price up by another $25 or $50 or said he was going to hang on to them a little longer! By then I just purchase some new Harman Kardon components (receiver and cassette deck) and wanted to compliment it all with a pair of speakers I peronsally liked more than what was recommended. By the time he told me he was ready to sell his AR3s (don't recall what year) I had just ordered and picked up a new pair of Advents "20th Anniversary" Loudspeaker. Man was he pissed! He got nasty and told me that he would have sold his ARs to me if I only waited he would have given me a great deal on them. I told him that he waited way too long to decide and that I was tired of waiting and that if he was serious I would have given him whatever price he was asking (just to piss him off even more). Three days later, while passing his house late one night, I saw both AR3 speakers sitting there out near the sidewalk to be picked up the next morning with a lot of other "junk." He and his family just went on vacation that night, weren't home, so I quickly grabbed them and stored them in my garage! I guess he figured if he put them out at night before leaving on vacation, nobody would grab them (especially me) since the garbage men came on Saturday morning really early! And in case some uneducated person not knowing anything about audio might snatch them, this idiot removed the grills and cut and smashed each woofer so that someone would figure them as being unrepairable.

A week later I heard some Doc Watson blasting from his house and noticed two AR boxes over near his garage - never sure what model as he stopped speaking to me from that week forward! Today, those speakers, his old AR3s have been restored and sit proudly in my music room looking and sounding better than ever! I sometimes spot this asshole in a local Borders and he won't even look at me while I just have this huge grin on my face knowing how much his old speakers look and sound in MY home today!!!

[Guest]

Sorry for mistakingly calling the large Advent I purchased as 20th Anniversary models...Just looked at the silver plate on the back and they are actually listed as 25th Anniversay Loudspeaker models.

[Steve F]

Outstanding stories!

Here's mine:

I received my hi-fi indoctrination at home, from my Dad. My late father was a hi-fi and music enthusiast of the highest order. He assembled a stereo system as soon as they were available—a big, custom-built cabinet with 36” tall by 18” wide Goodmans 15” 3-way floorstanding speakers on either end, with a center section containing a Knight-kit 35 watt/channel tube power amp and matching preamp, a Garrard RC88 turntable (I can’t remember the cartridge), and LP storage. It was actually a very attractive piece of furniture, in a Cold War/Leave It To Beaver-era kind of way.

After a commendably long time (6 or 7 years), my mother’s patience eventually ran out, and she insisted that the big speakers go. I remember I went with my Dad to the local stereo store (a Lafayette Radio) to listen to speakers. The Lafayette house-brands were laughable, but we listened at length to some Wharfedales, the AR-4x’s and the Dynaco A-25’s. The Dynas were actually a shade better than the 4x’s but my Dad felt the 4’s were a better buy. So our room was re-arranged and my Dad brought the AR-4x's home to replace those huge Goodmans my mother always hated. Actually, my father wanted 3a's but could never afford them, never could justify the expenditure. $500 for the pair was a LOT of money in the late 60’s. So he made do with the $114/pair 4x's (he was so pleased to have gotten the $63 ea. walnut speakers for the $57 "unfinished" price. That was back in the fair-trade days, before AR's were widely discounted.) The 4's were great, and our home was filled with lots of great music, especially on Sundays, everything from Dave Brubeck to Miles Davis to Mozart.

That whole experience hooked me. When I heard how much better the 4x’s were, top to bottom, than those gargantuan Goodmans, I was addicted to hi-fi, and AR speakers in particular. My Dad and I would spend hours listening to music together, talking about equipment, comparing specs, reading Julian's test reports, pouring over the literature, contemplating possible future models.

A couple years later when I was in high school, my friends and I started to put together our first systems. I became friendly with a fellow student who was the acknowledged stereo “expert” in school. He (or should I say his family) had an AR turntable with a Shure V15 Type II Improved, a McIntosh 75-watt per channel integrated amp (I forget the model number; I’m sure one of you will remember it—it was around 1970 or 71), and AR-3a’s. I was so impressed.

Well, I certainly could not afford 3a’s or McIntosh electronics. I was a high school kid. But I saved my money and bought a pair of second-generation 2ax’s and a Dynaco SCA-80 amp kit, and a Philips 202 turntable with a Shure M91ED cartridge. There were lots of Advent-equipped systems springing up all over the place in my friend’s houses, and we had some vicious A-B sessions on weekends, when we’d take our speakers over to each others’ places. No one ever gave an inch:

“Too bright!”

“No highs!”

“Colored! Brittle! Unnatural!”

“Dull! Lifeless!”

And so it went. Boy, that was fun.

BTW, when my Mom was clearing out the house a few years ago as she was readying it for sale, we came across that old Dyna SCA-80 amp, stored neatly in its original box. I had no use for it, but I couldn’t bring myself to throw it away. I asked my older cousin (another music/AR aficionado—we have lots of them in our family) if he had any use for it. He said sure, he’d take it, because he was putting together a system for his teenage son. The amp still works perfectly--31 years young and counting!

[ToastedAlmond]

Great upbringing. Lucky guy!

Around 1970 I worked for Lafayette Radio Electronics. Just filling orders in a large warehouse in Hauppauge, New York.

My daughter Stephanie has an SCA-80Q (Hafler Dynaquad circuit aboard) driving "New" Advent Loudspeakers in her bedroom. Better stuff than I had when I was 12-13 yrs old.

George

[Guest SteveG]

Excellent idea to allow us all all to look back. I envy those of you who had exposure to HI FI as kids. I was always inclined, but as my parents purchased a Magnavox console for the "Florida" room (in Miami) there wasn't much HI FI, but what did I know, I was maybe 14 years old. I went to local TV repair stores and bought used 10-12" speakers out of old TVs and built large wood cabinets for these. No crossover or anything. Put them in several rooms around the house with thin little wires strung everywhere all connected through toggle switches from Lafayette store, installed into holes i drilled into the console. Good thing there was lots of midrange content in Miles, Monk, and Getz recordings!!!

Then I went to collece in Philadelphia in 1967. Revelation. I took an old RtoR tape recorder with a built in amp and speakers and a Garrard (gouger) turntable. But I saw other guys with what I quickly realized was HI FI. There were little HarmonKardon systems, KLH systems, and one guy had AR4x's. There was incessant debate, but it seemed absolutely clear to me that the 4x's were miles ahead (pun intended). When I got some cash together, I ordered a pair of walnut 4x's ($42 each from "HiFi Associates in NYC) in 1968. Also bought this pretty little Fisher tube integrated stereo amp used from a dorm guy, 60 watts total I believe. Heaven.

As others have indicated, I blew many a tweeter in those poor 4x's, at least 5 in total, but the local AR service center was wonderful and kept reloading me without a problem. A year later in 1969 I made the big upgrade to an AR integrated amp and a Dual 1219 with a Shure V15. (Still have all three working great!!!!) No more blown tweeters, just wonderful music. I assume I am not alone in being hooked on great cost-effective AR equiptment not for the "pride of ownership" but for the wonderful music and the great times and fun we had with friends while listening. I won't bore you all with the rest of the story, as I assume most on this site moved through similar progressions in their HI FI addiction.

I hope those of you with real professional backgrounds in the field will share this with the rest of us. I take it that Tom Tyson and Ken Kantor must have worked for some time at AR. Possibly others???

Thanks

SteveG

[ar_pro]

Excellent stories, guys! I can recall my 8 AM Philosophy class, where the only thing that kept me awake was browsing the great product literature that AR provided (Remember filling out those info request cards in Stereo Review & High Fidelity? Remember circling those little numbers?!). All I knew was that someday, I would own the stuff in those pictures.

My one-and-only, all Acoustic Research system magically came together in just under 24 frantic hours...it involved selling my 2ax's to a complete stranger that I'd met on the bus (I'm not kidding!), and a quick pair of trips to discounters in NYC and DC, where I traded in my little Lafayette amp, spent ALL of my savings, and brought home a brand-new pair of 3a's and the AR amplifier. Together with my AR 'table and Shure cartridge, it was about as good as things got back then!

[Steve F]

Steve G:

"...but it seemed absolutely clear to me that the 4x's were miles ahead (pun intended)."

Although all the 50's-60's Miles albums are great, my personal favorite is "Miles Smiles." I used to be a very active jazz drummer, and Tony Williams was one of my favorites. His performance on Freedom Jazz Dance is so stunning it makes other drummers just want to quit.

ar_pro:

"Remember

filling out those info request cards in Stereo Review & High

>Fidelity? Remember circling those little numbers?!"

Bingo cards, as they used to call them. It always seemed like you received the info from the companies you didn't really care that much about first, but the good stuff always seemed to take forever.

"...where I traded in my little Lafayette amp..."

My first amp was a Lafayette LA125B, a small integrated that was good for about 22 watts/channel. I made do with this until I got my Dynaco SCA-80. Eventually, the Lafayette blew its output transistors and faded quietly into the night.

Steve F.

[Guest]

My experience as a "youth" was so close to Steve G's it's uncanny. My mother bought us a big black oriental Magnavox console for our first stereo experience. I used to acquire 10 and 12 inch speakers and build my own "boom" boxes. No tweeters, no crossovers...whew...what was I thinking. College gave me my first insight to REAL stereo equipment. I hated those rich kids but loved the KLH's and AR's in the dorm rooms. When I rented a house with two other guys, I invested in a Fisher 400, a pair of Heil speakers with EMIT tweeters and an AR turntable. It wasn't until my current young age of 54 that I finally acquired the infamous AR speakers; first a pair of 2ax's in very good condition (loved those cloth surrounds) and now a pair of restored 3a's. I actually put them in place of my $1200 Dahlquists. These vintage speakers have actually "forced" me into buying vintage stereo equipment ie; Marantz and Kenwood. I really need to stay away from Ebay! Good stories guys.

[Guest SteveG]

>Steve F:

>Although all the 50's-60's Miles albums are great, my

>personal favorite is "Miles Smiles." I used to be a very

>active jazz drummer, and Tony Williams was one of my

>favorites. His performance on Freedom Jazz Dance is so

>stunning it makes other drummers just want to quit.

>

I'll have to check out "Miles Smiles". Although I have 13 of his CDs loaded on the carousdl, I missed that one. I first heard a Miles recording in the summer of 66 after junior yr of high school. I was taking a few courses at a small college in central Fla, Stetson. Became friends with a guy who was a junior there and 1st trumpet in their orchestra. He put "Sketches of Spain" on and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Dave Brubeck never sounded as good after that. I did however see and hear the Brubeck quartet the next fall in the Gym at Miami-Dade Junior College, free concert. They were on a stand in the middle of the basketball court. A buddy had a bunch of cameras, so we each brought a couple and casually walked to the bandstand and sat on the edge for the whole concert. Joe Morello was playing well that night, as were they all. I saw Morello again about 10 years ago in Annapolis MD, unexpectedly. A cousin of mine who plays piano and sings a little was palying there with her bassist husbam=nd and Morello. He was a little older but still good, and helping out youngsters!! Would be great to hear more about your drumming days, SteveF. Hope you haven't given it up.

ddelu7408

"My experience as a "youth" was so close to Steve G's it's uncanny. My mother bought us a big black oriental Magnavox console for our first stereo experience. I used to acquire 10 and 12 inch speakers and build my own "boom" boxes. No tweeters, no crossovers...whew...what was I thinking."

Wow, this is some coincidence. And we are virtually the same age also. I am 53. If we were doing this, there must have been thousands of other misguided youth doing the same. I just hope your creations sounded better than mine!!!

[ToastedAlmond]

Great early stories.

I think the way the drums were recorded on Miles "Seven Steps to Heaven", and a close second Herbie Hancock's original "Maiden Voyage", are some of the best RECORDED drums I've ever heard. I won't get into the light years ahead drumming ideas and techniques of a guy that was still IN HIS TEENS when he did the stuff. Awesome. "Drive fast cars, smoke big cigars". Tony Williams.

George

[tysontom]

Here was my "First Exposure" to Acoustic Research:

During 1961 I had a mind-altering experience while in the United States Air Force. It was during this time that think I discovered the meaning of “high fidelity.” After completing B-52 Bomb-Navigation Training in Colorado, I settled into a routine at Biggs Air Force Base in El Paso, Texas. Life was pretty good in southwest Texas -- especially Juarez -- but I soon began to miss my “hi-fi” system left at home in North Carolina. I somehow convinced my mother to pack up and to send to me my entire audio system, consisting of a huge, homemade 15-inch bass-reflex speaker cabinet, EICO 20-watt amplifier and Garrard RC-98 turntable/GE “variable-reluctance” cartridge. In those days, anything that heavy had to be shipped at great expense by REA (Railway Express), but my mother dutifully crated and shipped the entire system out to me in El Paso! What a lady!

Subsequently, I was enjoying some Dave Brubeck on my system at the airbase one fine day when, unexpectedly, a friend next door with a diminutive AR-2 challenged me to a speaker comparison, a sort of “low-frequency bakeoff,” if you will, comparing my huge speaker to his tiny AR-2. Up to this point, I had heard of AR, but put little credence in what was being said about the products. My friend smiled, as though he already knew the outcome, and I was suspicious, but speaker comparisons were (and still are) emotional experiences similar to automobile drag racing. You would never say no, out of pride alone. So I accepted his challenge without hesitation. His AR-2, incidentally, was 1959-vintage in an abused, unfinished-pine utility cabinet. As you know, the AR-2 was AR’s second speaker design, a low-cost alternative to the relatively expensive AR-1. And at less than half the cost of an AR-1, it had about 80% of its performance.

Anyway, picture my friend’s test setup: Viking Tape Recorder, Dynaco Mark II amp, (no preamp) and his beat-up AR-2. This friend had taken his Viking recorder over to the PML lab on the base and recorded 20-20,000 Hz. (cycles-per-second back then) sine waves from a Hewlett-Packard 200CD audio oscillator. It was really the bass that we were comparing, of course, and this friend also wisely “matched” the acoustical output of each speaker. How is this tiny little box going to give my big 15-inch bass reflex any trouble? I felt good about it, because my speaker was much larger than his. Yet this whole affair would prove to be humiliating because, unknown to me at the time, an AR-2 could pump out low bass like, someone once said, “Kipling’s Thunder.” I never knew that any speaker, let alone one so small, could deliver such clean, low bass that could be felt and not just heard. This was a new experience for me. So, perched beside his AR-2 was my speaker, probably three-times its size, “ready” for testing.

When the energy began flowing things looked about equal. We ran the frequency down, octave-by-octave from 1000 Hz., but I soon discovered to my embarrassment that my speaker was no match for the AR-2 below about 50 or 60 Hz. The AR-2 continued to pump out deep bass down to 30 Hz and below. My big “fifteen-incher” was simply incapable of generating clean fundamental energy below 50 or 60 Hz. It could only manage overtones and big-time harmonic distortion below those frequencies. Good, old-fashioned “doubling” was what it was, and humiliation and harmonic distortion seem to go hand-in-hand. My box seemed to emit higher, rather than lower, tones each lower octave we went. Up until this day I had never realized that I was missing an entire octave a bass.

That little AR speaker emitted the cleanest bass I had ever heard, and this humbling experience was burned into my sensibilities. Within a week I sold everything I owned and purchased (on layaway!) an AR-3, the only speaker on the planet at that time actually superior to an AR-1 or AR-2. It was the beginning of a forty-year interest in the company and its products that still thrives to this day.

--Tom Tyson

[Steve F]

Joe Morello was playing well that night...

Steve G.

>

> I think the way the drums were recorded on Miles "Seven

>Steps to Heaven", and a close second Herbie Hancock's

>original "Maiden Voyage", are some of the best RECORDED

>drums I've ever heard. I won't get into the light years

>ahead drumming ideas and techniques of a guy that was still

>IN HIS TEENS when he did the stuff. Awesome. "Drive fast

>cars, smoke big cigars". Tony Williams.

>

> George

When did Joe Morello NOT play well? He was amazing--musical, tasteful, and with phenomenal technique. I listened to the Brubeck Quartet all the time, mostly because I learned so much from hearing Morello.

Some of those old Rudy Van Gelder Blue Note recordings from the mid 60's were pretty darned good. Maiden Voyage does sound surprisingly good. Check out Wayne Shorter's Adam's Apple as well.

I actually preferred the sound of the better Columbia's, however. The intro to Take Five (Morello doing a few bars of a 5/4 vamp before the rest of the Quartet comes in) still sounds great on 3a's, and that was recorded in '59!

As to my own playing, my friends and family have said I play in a Jack DeJohnette mode, which I take as an incredible compliment. I don't play as regularly as I did 25-30 years ago, but they're still set up in my basement and I can still swing--it's like riding a bike.

[Guest]

Wow, George; Lafayette Radio Electronics! We're going back some. I remember them; when did they go out of business? I too have to get my story on online once I get the words together.

[ToastedAlmond]

Tom,

How much time you have driving around in bombers? Personally, I have more than 26 yrs of service to the aerial refueling community. About 7,700 hours in tankers. 5 years to go till a federal retirement. Be a scream if I refueled you.

Great first exposure story. I can't believe you asked your mom to pack up cabinets with 15" woofers and ship them to you. NICE LADY!!

Ed, I worked for them about 1970-71. I remember buying something from the exact same place around 1979 at a warehouse sale. My guess is they tanked in the early 80's.

George