Guest jerzy Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 ave all,i have just made a very rash, irresponsible and totally illogical move and purchased a vintage, 10 wpc [modified and reconditioned] tube amp on ebay, and now i need cheap but good [relatively of course], efficient [at least 92db or better] speakers for it..it requires 4 ohm speakers to make things worse hehe...another words i have finally plunged into 'tubes' for the first time in my life...it's been brewing inside me for many years..i'm severely crippled thus living entirely off my disability income so cost is a major factor, yet i'd like something that will actually compliment my tube amp not just 'make sounds'...unfortunately my budget is only around $200/pair max...which is what i paid for the amp incidentally..i suppose that i'm looking more for helpful suggestions regarding some worthy [affordable] vintage speaker models that were manufactured with 4 ohm impedance and with high efficiency/sensitivity [id est - destined for low powered tube amps], rather than actually expecting to find a pair of such speakers for sale here...thus once armed with some choices i can then search for bargains in the relevant speaker models on line..however, if anyone here has just such speakers for sale at my meager budget - so much the better of course...i know what i like to hear in music reproduction and have been mesmerized by 'tube' sound ever since i've heard a tube based rig several years ago, but i am a total hi-fi laic [my main passion runs to vintage american tin; as if v8 powered with wheels and loud pipes hehe]...so i googled "vintage speakers, 4 ohm", and a couple of similar phrases, in hope of finding sites listing/describing some older models of speakers, which i could then look for on ebay and other classified ads on-line at bargain prices but the return listings weren't what i hoped for...however, i did find this site and thus decided to register and post my inquiry here...evidently there are a lot of postees here who are quite knowledgable about speakers; and hi-fi in general...hopefully i'll find some help and sound [pun somewhat intended hehe] suggestions here...thank you for your time...jerzy.oh, and if someone here might in fact have a pair of such speakers [i can't do any repairing so they'd have to be working good] for sale at a cheap price, i'm in north-eastern new joysie...thus if a sale would be made, i could drive out to nyc, northern joysie and southern ct to pick 'em up... as i understand that shipping could be a problem with heavy objects like speakers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 Hi there;With only a 10 watt tube amp, you're looking at a need of very efficient speakers.I don't think any acoustic suspension speakers will fill the bill here.Generally 25 watts and usually more are needed.Perhaps JBL, Altec or such, with a higher efficiency will be to your liking.Your price range does not leave a lot of choices, but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerzy Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 thanks vern/dan...although i was hoping for a more specific suggestion - pertaining to some actual, particular models...but i realize that with that kind of a budget i'm not exactly having a crapload of choices to make hehe...thus far - on my own - i've found out [via a 'google' night long search session] that there aren't many choices in 4 ohms/efficient, yet good sounding speakers; without even factoring-in the 'vintage' preferrence of mine..and not even on a larger budget...there are plenty of 8 ohms speakers from early to mid '60s which would fit the 'bill' (e.g.: 'wharfedale' w60/70 series, some early 'klh' models...as well as some earlier speakers made by 'coral', 'jensen', 'knight', 'electro-voice', klipsch', 'bozak', 'altec', 'jbl', 'tannoy', 'isophon', etc..), and many of them fall just about into my rock bottom budget; one could indeed find a well working vintage pair of decent sounding speakers for around $200-$250 with a little dilligence...however, not so when it comes to 4 ohms speakers..particularly 'efficient' type which i need for such a low powered amp if i'd want it to sound good...best i could find out - vintage or newer type - is that some 'klipsch' kg-4 models were apparently made as 4 ohms (unless those were 'owner modified' for 4 ohms - couldn't find that last bit of info) and since horns are apparently very efficient, a pair of [4 ohms] kg-4s would be a good match for this modified magnavox [8802 model] amp i've just purchased...indeed, i've just seen some [8 ohms] kg-4s advertised for sale in good condition, for well under $400 so with a little delay on my part (for saving up that extra $100-150) kg-4 speakers built with 4 ohms impedance rating would seem like the speakers to shoot for...however, apart from some forum postings on a couple of audio related sites, i couldn't find any '4 ohms kg-4' models advertised for sale...and those above-mentioned posts, describing the '4 ohms kg-4s', weren't classified ads but instead only described a home audio 'set up' of someone who posted it....then i've seen another brand which at first would seem appropriate for this amp although with at least twice the budget in a good used condition: 'polk' rta 12c model...the specs are 4 ohms and over 92db efficiency, however i've then happened upon one review of another piece of audio equipment where those speakers were used (on an 'audio review' type of a website), which called those very speakers 'power hungry'; i.e. requiring an amp with real balls...something which would seem logically contrary to the factory basic specs of those speakers; then again, what do i know...as i've admitted already-i'm a complete laic when it comes to understanding technical aspects of hi-fi...next, i've found a speaker model which seems like a very good match but it also costs quite a bit more in good used condition than my meager budget..it's 'ads' L730 model..but i could not find a used pair for under nearly 3 times my budget...plus i'm still unsure whether it would be such a good fit for my little amp...i'm only going on the 4 ohms impedance rating and higher db efficiency here...apart from those a 'jamo 707' also seemed like it might be a good matchthe only other speaker brand, of which many models would seem to be just what my amp needs, is 'cerwin vega'...especially some '70s-80s models like the 're 30' for example...many of their models are 4 ohms and seem to be very efficient-at more than 95dbs...some even over 100 dbs if one can trust the factory ratings...i say that last part because i do know a bit more about cars than i do about hi-fi, and thus realize that 'factory specs' often are very optimistic [or quoted as when measured under non-standard circumstances] and only in rare cases actually are given as 'lower' than factual; those latter cases exclusively for the 'legal' purposes so it doesn't really apply to audio hehe... however, i have often heard - from people who supposedly knew a lot about quality hi-fi - that 'cerwin vegas' are crap sonically...sort of like the 'bose' brand, and aren't good when it comes to faithful reproduction of actual music/sound...apparently they're great for bad ass home 'rock parties' with their deep bass extension but since i have the ubiquitous 'consumer brand' home set up already - which can fulfill such 'activities' quite well - i'm looking for speakers which above all, when paired with that little magnavox amp (and a basic but good vintage pre-amp), will be sonically superior in music playback to the lame 150 wpc 'sony/jvc/denon/design acoustic' rig i have...at the very least i want to hear that warm tube sound without any other colorations/distortions.... that's why i have even decided to finally buy a vintage tube amp (even if it's a low priced one, and one which won't 'stand up' to the high end rigs) in the first place, so unless i'm wrong about the 'cerwin vegas' reputation and potential, i'll pass on the 'c-v' brand....hell, it seems to me that i could likely have someone 'build me' a pair of 2 way speakers into empty vintage cabinets, using sonically superior drivers for around $800 or so but that's way above what i can spend...at least for the next few years...i've also gotten a couple of suggested models from a guy who runs a 'used audio gear' website, where i might actually purchase speakers from since his prices seem very reasonable..according to him a pair of 'ads' L620 speakers ($250/pair on his site) sound great and would be a good match for my amp...they're 'modern looking' though and aren't exactly a perfect match in impedance...they're rated at 6 ohms...other than that he also suggested a pair of 'acoustic research' ar-8 speakers ($150/pair used but 'ok' condition) but they're rated at 8 ohms and from what i've understood - as strongly suggested by the amp's 'builder' - this amp should use only 4 ohms speakers... summing up - unless someone here might come up with a speaker model suggestion which: -might really be an optimal match for this amp, -fit my budget more or less, -and of which i'm not aware of, my best option considering everything is to hook up 2 pairs of 8 ohms speakers in a 'parallel' configuration (as opposed to a chain 'series' config if i have undestood correctly some web posts pertaining to that subject) instead of trying to find a single 4 ohm pair of appropriate speakers...just like the original owner/builder of this amp had it set up....thus i believe that i'll now be searching ebay and other 'audio classifieds' for a used "vintage" pair of good efficient 8ohms speakers...especially for the mid-fi models made by 'klipsch', 'wharfedale', 'klh', 'jensen', 'jbl', 'bozak' as those seem to have been the best, relatively affordable, speakers made back then...thank you nevertheless....dammmmmmmnnn that was a long ass piece of typing hehe... 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JKent Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Hi Jerzy and greetings from NW NJI question why you want 4 ohm speakers. Lower impedence speakers are more difficult to drive, so your low wattage amp may do better with higher impedance. Also--I'm not convinced that you cannot drive acoustic suspension speakers. My first stereo was a KLH tuner, a Dynaco ST-35 (that's 17 watts per channel) and a pair of AR 4x speakers. Sounded great. Another member mentioned the KLH 20 speakers. These were designed to go with a small system and may work with your amp. Farther down are the extension speakers for the KLH 21 table radio. These only contain one driver, they sound good and they would certainly not be too power-hungry for your amp. Similar to those are the extension speakers from the Advent 400 radio (white plastic, usually turned yellow). AR 7s, a little hard to find, or maybe AR6 (I think there is a pair on ebay now) may work.What brand/model is the amp? That may help with speaker recommendations.good luckKent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerzy Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 hey there kent,thank you for the reply and your suggestions...i shall reply to your e-mail shortly as well..that is a very generous offer re-speakers on your part but i think i've just purchased the pair which will match my amp very well...btw, ever since i've recently purchased my little tube amp i've done quite a bit of 'google research' trying to find out as much info as i could about low priced vintage'tube' hi-fi gear and the st-35 was a great amp according to many sites devoted to vintage audio...so you apparently had a very nice set up as your first system...regarding my newly acquired little amp: the amp i purchased is a - completely refurbished/modified - magnavox 8820 tube amp (ca. late 50s-early 60s)..these amps were originally part of magnavox 'consoles' as i understand...i've recently found some posts pertaining to that very model on another quite popular audio forum and apparently those amps have a small but ardent 'following' among some hi-fi enthusiasts and are well regarded for their sound (and 'quiteness') on low budget...in other words - quite a few other 'audiophiles' are refurbishing them as well...the guy who sold me this amp did all the work himself and insisted that 4 ohms speakers should now be used with it for the proper match...i'm definitely not of the 'scientifically inclined' mind type, therefore i often barely comprehend half of what i read about hi-fi/audio tech specs...thus i'm not certain why this particular amp's impedance cannot be optionally switched to 8 ohms and 16 ohms anymore (other models of this 8802 amp have that option according to what i've read in those abovementioned forum posts)...perhaps it's due to the transformer option he used (?)...i suppose that when he modified it in such a way it was done to improve its performance (either sonically or with regards to its reliability) since he has already 'built' over 40 of those amps in the past...here is the ebay link to this very amp i purchased if anyone's interested; i think that 'sold' ebay items stay accessible for a period of one month so this one is still there as of today:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:B:AAQ:US:1and for reference here are a couple of most recent ebay ads for those 8820 amps...one refurbished/modified, and one 'factory stock':http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Magnavox-Tube-Amp...1QQcmdZViewItemhttp://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1964-MAGNAVOX-...1QQcmdZViewItemi'm still in touch with the guy whom i purchased my amp from, and he is helpful with suggestions...it's just that i don't understand the 'tech speak' thus what exactly he did to this amp besides 'understanding' that he 'improved' it...in fact i chose to buy this particular amp for those very reasons [i.e. the complete refurbishing of it to better than stock specs]above all because being a laic, and on a minimal budget to boot, i want a vintage 'tube amp sound' yet without having to worry about refurbishing/fixing it at any time soon;which incidentally is precisely the sort of attitude i abhor in others when it comes to buying/owning 'vintage tin' like traditional hot rods/kustoms hahaha: i drive a - thoroughly beat up as of last year's road rage incident on my part - '68 cutlass with a 'hopped up' 455 as my daily beater, and also have a decade long hot rod project parked over at my folks' place ('36 studebaker dictator coupe)..still a 'project' because i'm piss-poor and so i naturally blame the quite recent hot rod/muscle/kustom 'trend' prevalent in the plebeian world, for the exorbitant labor prices when it comes to this type of cars/ work...thus to be consequent, i suppose that one could make a case against a laic like me purchasing a vintage piece of audio gear but then foolishly wanting it to be as reliable as some modern crap hahaha...i do indeed see the irony in this.. btw, i have a link to a 'myspace' page in my profile here, where i have some photos posted of my rides if anyone here likes such 'obnoxious' rides hehe...but i've digressed......back to the amp and my search of speakers for it:yesterday i've purchased a pair of klipsch kg-4 speakers on that ebay site..they are already on their way to me and i should have them by saturday; or early next week at the latest...here's the link to those speakers:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:B:RTQ:US:1this particular pair is in rough shape cosmetically but both speakers work very well according to the seller...no matter - as long as the performance isn't affected, i don't care much for pristine looking things/stuff in my life..in fact most things i own are sort of like me hehe - well 'beat up' and definitely 'with a past'... ;-)most importantly this particular pair of kg-4s have '4 ohms nominal impedance' clearly printed on their backs...as opposed to most kg-4s' (and klipsch's own website nominal impedance specs of those speakers) stated rating which is given as '6 ohms' (not 8 ohms as i've erroneously stated in my previous post btw - the edit option of that post 'ran out' by the time i've realized my typo]...and consequently i paid only $240 for both including s&h - therefore right along my budget..provided that they'll perform as adverised, it will be the speakers i'll have to use with my amp for a long time to come due to my 'budget constraints but according to my recent 'google' surfing marathons (performed by me to find the best possible component match on a seriously 'challenged' budget to my newly acquire amp) i could do much worse in my speaker choice...therefore i now will have to start saving up my ducats for a good 'cheap' pre-amp to match my budding 'tube rig'...and then a 'mid-end' cd player...with regards to former - i regularly see vintage pre-amps on ebay and other 'audio classifieds' sites, which i think would suit my amp very well, go for under $400 in very good or refurbished condition...tube units made by: h.h. scott, fisher, harman-kardon, heathkit, eico, pilot, etc...and solid state pre amps such as mcintosh c26 for example...i'm still not sure whether i'll go with a tube or s/s pre-amp; i'll now have to do much more 'surfing' of audio related sites to research that solution (any suggestions are welcome btw)....regarding the latter - currently i have a cheap old [mid '90s] 'consumer grade' carousel cd-player 'sony cdp-se505' hooked up via a denon basic 16 bit dac to (another 'consumer grade') a 2 channel jvc 150 wpc receiver..so that's the cd 'transport' i'll have to use for the cd playback until i'll save up for a used , or a 'demo', mid-fi cd player...i regularly see 'mid end' second hand cd players in good condition go for $200-450 on some better 'audio classified' sites...most of them with good previous reviews by the hi-fi publications.. in the end, within the next few months, i hope to have a basic but 'sweet sounding' tube rig in my apartment for a total of about $1200 (including some cheap but solid cables/wires from monster cable)...my current lame 'consumer grade' set up cost me around $1600 new, just over 12 years ago and i believe that i'll enjoy the tube based one far more...and more often..eventually i'll also want to add a basic but good 'vinyl' set up to complete my listening experience but that will have to wait... btw, if anyone has any suggestions based on their knowledge/experience all are very welcome... 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Guest jerzy Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 hmmmm...my last post was 'cut' for some reason and the part where i've mentioned the cd player was completely deleted after i've edited my post a couple of times for spelling/missed letters...very strange..i believe that this forum's setting is designed to do this whenever a 'square' parenthesis is used - which is one i often use as an acquired 'bad habit' - instead of the regular parenthesis..anyway, what i've written therein was that currently i use a cheap sony carousel cd player (mid '90s consumer grade) connected via a basic denon 16 bit dac to a jvc 2 channel 150 wpc receiver (another cheap consumer grade)...and that after i'll buy an appropriate pre-amp, and until i'll save up for a slightly used mid-end cd player (i often see such cd players sell for between $200-$400 on some better 'audio classifieds' sites) this low-end sony/denon combo will have to remain my cd playing source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 hi JerzyThose Klipsh speakers look pretty nice. If the oak veneer is in good shape as stated, the only cosmetic issue is one missing speaker badge. No big deal. I WOULD however be concerned about the passive radiator with cat-scratch fever. Depending on how bad it is, you should repair or replace it. The dust cap is probably only aesthetic, since there is no voice coil, but it would be nice to replace it. When you buy the cap, get some of the white adnesive that has been discussed in other forums here, Use that to repair the scratches. You may have to make some patches by TEARING small pieces of gray tissue from a craft store. After the patch and new dust cap, you can coat the whole PR cone with a THINNED solution of the white adhesive. Let it dry and try it out. Here is a description:http://www.citlink.net/~msound/refoam/page15.htmIf that does not work you will either need a new PR or send yours out to be reconed. A new 12" PR from Parts Express is $65. Dunno what a genuine Klipsh would cost. According to talk here, the expert reconing guy is Bill LeGall at MillerSound, but there are several other resources.Klipsch is still around--check their website for support number. They may even be nice and send you a speaker badge.btw, there is a Klipsch forum here:http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 Hi there;I went to the expired eBay ad and read the write-up.It said that the amp output is about 10 watts and at 4 ohms in another paragraph.You will need extremely efficient speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerzy Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 kent,thank you for the valuable info..i've already replied to your e-mail sometime ago as you no doubt know by now...i don't get e-mail notifications about replies to my post here for some strange reason (i did check the option to be so notified) and that's why i'm somewhat delinquent in answering any replies here in a timely manner...i'll definitely check out those links and i'm certain that they'll be quite helpful...the dust cap had been installed by the seller prior to shipping them to me at no cost btw..don't know whether those scratched rear woofers have any actual significant effect on sound because i haven't yet managed to get those speakers hooked up, however i've just purchased a vintage tube 'heathkit' preamp so it shall be very soon...;-)thanks once again - jerzy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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