ALS Tweeter

[Doug G.]

A guy had two fried egg tweeters for sale on eBay (each one in a separate auction). One of them had nothing on the back but the other one had the ALS TWEETER sticker on the magnet.

The wording on the sticker is thus:

"This replacement driver is for use only in the Advent Loudspeaker below SN 300,000 and the Smaller Advent Loudspeaker above SN 140,000"

These have the 3" square magnets rather than the 2 1/2" version meant for the Smaller Advent.

The 300,000 for the Advent Loudspeaker makes sense because that is probably when they changed to the flush mounted tweeter in The New Advent Loudspeakr.

But, if they are referring to the Original Smaller Advent Loudspeaker, that means they used the larger magnet version in some of the late ones. Did Advent decide that maybe the more efficient version sounded OK or better after all, or did they jusr run out of the Smaller Advent version :^) Interesting.

Doug

[Guest GWCrum]

I've wondered about that, as I too had an ALS with that sticker. There has been some discussion on the Audio Asylum Vintage Forum about the correct crosover for the Smaller Advent. Quite a few versions have surfaced, along with reports of orange tweeters. So I think it's quite likely that later versions of the Smaller Advent did use the large Advent tweeter and used a suitably modified crossover to make it work.

We have collaborated to figure out that there are three versions of the original large Advent crossover. This site seems to think there were only two, but we know of a very early version as well, making three.

Jerry

[real1shepherd]

Yeah, I saw those tweeters on ebay....I also heard that they did indeed, use the large Advent tweeter in the smaller Advents after a certain serial #. I hope I didn't read that on ebay somewhere, because that makes the source absolutely worthless...

I'm the dumb $ss that bought the Advent, black poly dome tweeter set with the "harmless holes" drilled into the mounting plates. I think they are OK...I mean I hooked them up to some speaker wire and they worked the same. I took a heat gun to the "dents" in the poly domes and 'gently' formed most of them out. I dunno, probably my folly, but it beat a night at the casino.;-)

[real1shepherd]

>A guy had two fried egg tweeters for sale on eBay (each one in a separate auction). One of them had nothing on the back but the other one had the ALS TWEETER sticker on the magnet.

The wording on the sticker is thus:

"This replacement driver is for use only in the Advent Loudspeaker below SN 300,000 and the Smaller Advent Loudspeaker above SN 140,000"

These have the 3" square magnets rather than the 2 1/2" version meant for the Smaller Advent.

The 300,000 for the Advent Loudspeaker makes sense because that is probably when they changed to the flush mounted tweeter in The New Advent Loudspeakr.

But, if they are referring to the Original Smaller Advent Loudspeaker, that means they used the larger magnet version in some of the late ones. Did Advent decide that maybe the more efficient version sounded OK or better after all, or did they jusr run out of the Smaller Advent version :^) Interesting.

Doug<

Doug...do you know if anyone has done any research on the Advent serial #'s themselves? Like what yrs went with what # ranges....(I'm assuming that the serial #'s are actual production #'s in sequence)?

Kevin

[Doug G.]

The only research I'm aware of is my own limited efforts.

I think the original Walnuts with the masonite woofers were made until S.N. 299,999 was reached and then they started the New Advents. So, the last original would have been A 299999 (hence the wording on the ALS for S.N.s BELOW 300,000) and the first New Advent A3 00000 (or maybe 00001). I think this is where people get confused and call these an A3 model when, in fact the 3 with the A is really the first number of the S.N. Also you have people selling A4 models which is really just when they had to change to 400,000 for a S.N.

The Utilities seem to have been numbered separately from the Walnuts because I have some of both and, of course, the Utilities S.Ns start with a U instead of an A. Actually, I'm not at all sure about this though. I have two pairs of Utilities, one made in May of 1976 with S.Ns U234134 and U234140, the other made in August of 1976 with S.N.s U250938 and U250953. My Walnuts have tweeters with an Aug 29 1975 date on them and they are green. So, at first glance they may not seem to be the originals (not orange). But, the cabinets have dates of 8-26 and 8-27 written in hand on the front so this leads me to believe the tweeters are legit. The S.N.s are A 187986 and A 188231. Did Advent make another 110,000 Walnuts between August of 1975 and whenever they quit making them in 1977 or did they use the same sequence for Walnuts and Utilities and just put an A or U in front?

I have heard, though, that there were at least a half million of the originals (Walnuts and Utilities combined) made so there would have had to have been separate numbering if that is the case.

Anyway, these are some observations I've made and food for thought.

Doug

[real1shepherd]

Thanks for that Dave....actually, you've done a lot of thinking about this issue. I agree that if they made a half million of them, there would have been separate serials at some point for the walnut versus the utility. And correct me if I'm wrong about this, but they weren't sold in 'sets', that is they were shipped in lots and the dealers would usually just grab two boxes....so unless someone was sorting by serials, your chances of getting two consecutive numbered speakers was small or accidental? I know that my original utility pair are not even close and I bought them myself at a dealer.

And then I've been thinking about another issue...in the letter back to Absolute Sound they, (Advent), mention installing the protective tweeter grill in 1971. Then the raised 'fried-egg' tweeter with the protective grill reined until how long? I'm assuming the tweeter that replaced it was the flush mount unit with the metal grill, what they were calling ferro-fluid filled? Also, did the entirely metal frame woofers replace the masonite at about the same time the flush mount tweeters appeared?

Oh and BTW, I've seen those 'green' color tweeters in many ALS set-ups.

[justw]

>Thanks for that Dave....actually, you've done a lot of

>thinking about this issue. I agree that if they made a half

>million of them, there would have been separate serials at

>some point for the walnut versus the utility. And correct me

>if I'm wrong about this, but they weren't sold in 'sets', that

>is they were shipped in lots and the dealers would usually

>just grab two boxes....so unless someone was sorting by

>serials, your chances of getting two consecutive numbered

>speakers was small or accidental? I know that my original

>utility pair are not even close and I bought them myself at a

>dealer.

>

>And then I've been thinking about another issue...in the

>letter back to Absolute Sound they, (Advent), mention

>installing the protective tweeter grill in 1971. Then the

>raised 'fried-egg' tweeter with the protective grill reined

>until how long? I'm assuming the tweeter that replaced it was

>the flush mount unit with the metal grill, what they were

>calling ferro-fluid filled? Also, did the entirely metal frame

>woofers replace the masonite at about the same time the flush

>mount tweeters appeared?

>

>Oh and BTW, I've seen those 'green' color tweeters in many ALS

>set-ups.

>

Do all of us a favor. Once you guys sort this out could you post a document to the library for future reference? I would like to see a timeline for both Walnut and Utility speakers from start to finish. Woofer, tweeter, and crossover differences should be noted.

[Doug G.]

>Thanks for that Dave....actually, you've done a lot of

>thinking about this issue. I agree that if they made a half

>million of them, there would have been separate serials at

>some point for the walnut versus the utility. And correct me

>if I'm wrong about this, but they weren't sold in 'sets', that

>is they were shipped in lots and the dealers would usually

>just grab two boxes....so unless someone was sorting by

>serials, your chances of getting two consecutive numbered

>speakers was small or accidental? I know that my original

>utility pair are not even close and I bought them myself at a

>dealer.

>

>And then I've been thinking about another issue...in the

>letter back to Absolute Sound they, (Advent), mention

>installing the protective tweeter grill in 1971. Then the

>raised 'fried-egg' tweeter with the protective grill reined

>until how long? I'm assuming the tweeter that replaced it was

>the flush mount unit with the metal grill, what they were

>calling ferro-fluid filled? Also, did the entirely metal frame

>woofers replace the masonite at about the same time the flush

>mount tweeters appeared?

>

>Oh and BTW, I've seen those 'green' color tweeters in many ALS

>set-ups.

>

I guess I wasn't aware of a Dave participating in this thread :^)

Anyway, yup, if you wanted consecutive or close serial numbers, you would have had to request it of the dealer as the Advents were really sold singly.

In 1969, when the Advent Loudspeaker was released, the tweeter did not have the protective grille over them but, instead, had a screen mounted in the front cover grille and an additional block of wood with Velcro on it right under the tweeter in an effort to keep the grille away from the tweeter cone. Due to damage in the field, they began including the metal grille glued over the tweeter in 1971. Advent also provided grilles free of charge to anyone who had purchased the earlier units and wanted to glue them over the tweeters.

The original tweeter (masonite plate) was used only in the original Advent Loudspeaker (large) and the Smaller Advent Loudspeaker (the one with the woofer with the large "spitball" mass glued in the center). This was added to get the mass of the cone up to what Kloss wanted. So, this means that it lasted until about 1977 when these two speakers were discontinued. The flush mount tweeter (still with the orange cone)was then used in the New Advent Loudspeaker and the Advent/1, which used the same drivers as the New Advent in a smaller cabinet.

The all metal woofer was also introduced at this time but there have been some cases where these woofers have been discovered in some of the late original Advent Loudspeakers.

So we have:

Masonite plate tweeters 1969 - 1977

Masonite woofers 1969 - 1977

Flush mount tweeters 1977 - end of production of New Advent and Advent/1

All-metal woofers 1977 - end of production of New Advent and advent/1

Very similar all-metal woofers were used later in other models but I believe they had round magnets instead of the square magnets which were common to all of the first four drivers.

Doug

[real1shepherd]

"I guess I wasn't aware of a Dave participating in this thread :^)"

Sorry, as I freely stated in another thread, I am dyslexic....Dave/Doug being somewhat of a hurtle.:-)

"Anyway, yup, if you wanted consecutive or close serial numbers, you would have had to request it of the dealer as the Advents were really sold singly."

That's what I thought. Did you see that seller recently who had two sets of ALS on ebay with original boxes and literature?? Surrounds were rotted of course, but they looked near mint! I should have ponied up the money for those suckers.:-( I think he said they were even consecutive #'s.

"The original tweeter (masonite plate) was used only in the original Advent Loudspeaker (large) and the Smaller Advent Loudspeaker (the one with the woofer with the large "spitball" mass glued in the center). This was added to get the mass of the cone up to what Kloss wanted. So, this means that it lasted until about 1977 when these two speakers were discontinued. The flush mount tweeter (still with the orange cone)was then used in the New Advent Loudspeaker and the Advent/1, which used the same drivers as the New Advent in a smaller cabinet.

The all metal woofer was also introduced at this time but there have been some cases where these woofers have been discovered in some of the late original Advent Loudspeakers.

So we have:

Masonite plate tweeters 1969 - 1977

Masonite woofers 1969 - 1977

Flush mount tweeters 1977 - end of production of New Advent and Advent/1

All-metal woofers 1977 - end of production of New Advent and advent/1

Very similar all-metal woofers were used later in other models but I believe they had round magnets instead of the square magnets which were common to all of the first four drivers.

Doug"

That explains a lot because I have from time to time seen some mixing of metal woofers in later ALS boxes along with the flush mounted tweeters. So if what you're saying is accurate, those weren't owner substitutes but actual factory units as Advent got ready to change models. Be nice to talk with somebody that worked at Advent Corp to verify all this, wouldn't it? Well, I can dream anyway....