Guest SherwoodFool Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I want to separate a pair of 2ax's & use the woofers as subs. I know this is stupid,but I still can't fathom these 1,2,T connections on the back of all the 3-ways. Help!!Russ(SherwoodFool) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shacky Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 The wire between 2 and T connects the mid and tweeter. Just remove this wire and you will drive the woofer only. BTW I don't know how this changes the ohmage of the speaker - they are normally 8 ohm and I would think driving the woofer only would lower that to 6 or 4 ohms.With the level of bass these put out, I can see why you want to use them for this purpose!Shacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 >The wire between 2 and T connects the mid and tweeter. Just>remove this wire and you will drive the woofer only. BTW I>don't know how this changes the ohmage of the speaker - they>are normally 8 ohm and I would think driving the woofer only>would lower that to 6 or 4 ohms.Hi there;The AR-2AX is rated at 8 ohms.Each of the 8 ohm drivers is connected in parallel.The actual 8 ohm rating is at 1khz, which is at the woofers upper operating frequency.The DCR reading of the woofer is about 5.75+/- ohms.I don't have my spec sheets handy, but the actual woofers impedance quite likely, climbs to over 25 ohms below 100hz, which is where the amplifier must provide more clean watts.If you really want deep, gut wrenching subwoofer type bass, you should have either an AR-12" woofer, for example, an AR-1W, AR-3, or AR-3A.If you like it louder, maybe a Cerwin Vega subwoofer.Remember that hifi speakers, which is about all that is discussed here on the CSP, are not meant for disco sound levels.You should always protect your investments with fuses.Good luck.>>With the level of bass these put out, I can see why you want>to use them for this purpose!>>Shacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SherwoodFool Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 >The wire between 2 and T connects the mid and tweeter. Just>remove this wire and you will drive the woofer only. BTW I>don't know how this changes the ohmage of the speaker - they>are normally 8 ohm and I would think driving the woofer only>would lower that to 6 or 4 ohms.>>With the level of bass these put out, I can see why you want>to use them for this purpose!>>ShackyHi,Can I use mids & tweeter not just woofer? I was planning to DBX sub amp(75Wt/ch)w speaker taps for 2 subs & line outs for the front stereo pair. I going to tell my receiver to all bass to fronts, as if I had no sub, & send the L ,R wires back to the mid/tweeter on the 2ax's. I just can't visualize hook ups on 1,2,T terminals.Am I being logical at least in what I'm trying to do?Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SherwoodFool Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 >>The wire between 2 and T connects the mid and tweeter. >Just>>remove this wire and you will drive the woofer only. >>> BTW I>>don't know how this changes the ohmage of the speaker ->they>>are normally 8 ohm and I would think driving the woofer>only>>would lower that to 6 or 4 ohms.>>>>Hi there;>>The AR-2AX is rated at 8 ohms.>>Each of the 8 ohm drivers is connected in parallel.>>The actual 8 ohm rating is at 1khz, which is at the woofers>upper operating frequency.>>The DCR reading of the woofer is about 5.75+/- ohms.>>I don't have my spec sheets handy, but the actual woofers>impedance quite likely, climbs to over 25 ohms below 100hz,>which is where the amplifier must provide more clean watts.>>If you really want deep, gut wrenching subwoofer type bass,>you should have either an AR-12" woofer, for example, an>AR-1W, AR-3, or AR-3A.>>If you like it louder, maybe a Cerwin Vega subwoofer.>>Remember that hifi speakers, which is about all that is>discussed here on the CSP, are not meant for disco sound>levels.>>You should always protect your investments with fuses.>>Good luck.>Vern,Well, I am partial to Weather Reports's "Heavy Weather" & Deodatos " Also Sprach..." for bass showing off to young guys.But, am I am being logical in what I am trying to do?Russ >>>>>With the level of bass these put out, I can see why you>want>>to use them for this purpose!>>>>Shacky> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SherwoodFool Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Will somebody answer. I am desparate!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 The 2Ax mids/tweeters cannot be driven by themselves, unless the woofer is disconnected internally. Why are you trying to separate the sections of this speaker? What are you trying to accomplish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SherwoodFool Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I thought Icould separate & separately Bi-amp using 1,2,T taps.As soon as you said "internally wired", I now realize this would be impossible.You still "the Man".Thanks. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrcrain Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 This is a link to an article concerning the 2AX in the library. Apparently, the three binding posts do allow you to separate the tweeter from the bass driver. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/ar/classic/arcomm1.txtBased strictly on what I've seen on a other speakers, one of the three binding posts will be the common or ground where you would connect the negative from both amps. The other two posts will be the positive for each respective driver. I'm not thrilled with this arrangement but also have to admit that is effectively how my speakers are bi-amped even with four binding posts. My amps are rack mounted and the steel frame pulls the cases of both amps to a common ground plane, and the negative speaker connection is internally connected to the case ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SherwoodFool Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Hi,Just read article sited. It seems to me that he removed the wire to T terminal to test mid/tweeter & woofer separately. I assume he used 2 & T to test tweeter/mid & 1 & 2 for woofer w/o T, 2 strap. What I was proposing was to do both simultaneously but it looks to me like I was restoring the T,2 strap.Am I being illogical? the wiring look wrong. Especially since previous response from Vintage Ar says woofer is connected internally.Thanks.-Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrcrain Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 What you can safely try without risking damage is connecting your amp to one pair of posts at a time with the jumper removed. If you do this properly and at low volumn, you should be able to determine which post is the common and which of the other two are for the tweeter and the bass. In the absence of a factory schematic, my preferred method is to open the case, trace out the wiring and make a hand drawn schematic of the crossover to figure out what goes where. This would remove all doubts on how the crossover is built and answer all questions regarding if your speakers can or can not be bi-amped. Do a good job and I'd suggest you upload the drawing for inclusion in the library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onplane Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 As I write this, I'm looking at the circuit diagram for the xover for the AR-3a. I'm assuming that the xover for the 2x is similar.Here how it should work:Terminal #1 is the common for both the woofer and tweeter - in most amps there is a common terminal for speaker outputs and it is the minus or black terminal. To verify on your amp, unplug the amp then get an ohm meter. Set to the lowest setting and touch the "non-red" (usually black, but sometimes designated with a minus) output terminal to one lead and the outside shield connection on any of the amps input lines. If the ohm meter reads zero (i.e. a short circuit), then you know that this is the speaker output line that would go to terminal #1.Terminal #2 is the "hot" (usually red or PLUS) terminal for the wooferTerminal T is the "hot" (usually red or PLUS) terminal for the tweeterElectrically, if you verify that you have found the common on both amps, the above connections will allow you to have two amps independently driving the speakers within your 2ax.To gain any benefits, you really need two separate amps and here is where we could have an acoustic problem. In order for this scheme to improve the perceived sound, the output signals from both amps have to be "in phase". At every stage within your amp where we achieve a voltage gain we reverse the audio signal by 180 degrees. So when you have two amps from different manufacturers, you can never be sure they have exactly the same number of voltage gain stages and YOU CANNOT SIMPLY REVERSE THE LEADS GOING TO THE SPEAKERS. The leads must go as I described above.Hook up your two amps up as I've described and walk around the speakers. If the woofers and tweeters are out of phase, you'll find peaks and valleys caused by interference of the out of phase sound waves. The only solution is to try another amp or better yet, get two identical amps from the same manufacturer.Hope this helps...Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onplane Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Ooops, I just remembered. I neglected to mention that you must remove the wire between T and 2. This is the wire that causes both the tweeter and woofer to work together.One final suggestion for improving the sound through bi-amping is to try to limit the frequency outputs to match the speakers. That is, attempt to send only low frequencies to the woofer and high frequencies to the tweeter. Now the xover circuits within the 2ax will limit the frequencies going to the drivers, but those networks are not perfect. By using equilization on the amps, you can really clean this up.Regards,Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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