Amplifier Power

[frankmarsi]

3-16-06 10PM

Dear site members,

I gotta say this: my vintage old Phase Linear 4000 Pre-amp, circa 1974 blows away my newly purchased used, ‘second-hand’ Carver C-4000 pre-amp circa 1979, it’s not funny and mostly dissatisfying to boot! One might imagine that no doubt the AR manufacturing people must have listened to the same amplification (PL4000, PL400, PL700B) in testing back then, as it was one of the few new comer’s to that whole scene along with the Crowns and SAE’s for home use, circa ’70-on.

The old Phase Linear 4000 pre-amp is so much in ‘in-tune’ with my old LST’s it’s not hard to listen to at all, in fact a pleasurable moment to say the least. I’m glad that I still have my main PL4000 which was around the same time as my AR-3a’s and LST’s that I intend to sell the Carver C-4000 pre-amp and rely solely on and listen to how my AR’s should sound with the older pre and amp units. I was trying to assemble a second system with 4 stacked 3a’s with the Carver pre-amp amp and the same PL400’s. But the older, not doubt tested with ‘when-new’ AR’s, sound much better as they normally do to me with the PL4000. My present main system is 4-stacked AR-LST’s and two PL400’s, which contrary to some popular belief are very mellow sounding when adequately warmed up (much like tube, but with more guts and bottom end balls), and from what I’ve read ultimately better sounding than PL700B’s. And please don’t worry about that rumored 4 ohm problem, they do quite well if properly controlled and re-furbed. We’re talking app.1600 watts RMS here at clipping.

Right now I realize I should go back to the PL4000 with the 4 LST’s and plan on getting some other pre-amp for the AR-3a’s, if not another PL4000, which offers so much more of a ‘true’ AR sound which I’ve been an aficionado of since 1972. It might be said my ears have learned correctly and I’m not a ‘new –comer’ to this AR ‘madness’ on this site, as I can openly admit!

The older pre-amp is certainly more convenient and easier to use, the C-4000 has too many switches in ‘blind’ places to enjoy, especially when wailing like I like to do as I move my tastes quickly from rock to classical to jazz, etc. and back and forth in one session. As a former musician, my tastes vary quickly from one type of music to another to be able to satisfy me in one night’s listening, to be held back by the ‘control-ability’ for me.

It is my feeling that as long as one is using vintage AR, one should use vintage amps and the like for a true vintage sound reproduction and appeal and ‘rewarding listening experience’ and ‘high’.

Anyone want to buy a mint C-4000 Carver?

How about Vern, by the way where and how are you, pal? Any other brave souls care to comment, Minh, Bret, Pete, Soundminded, T.T., K.K., others, what about E.V. , H.K. They’d all be happy to know one person could on about their efforts as I do. I must respectfully say to others that I’m not some new comer merely asking about some lesser model AR speaker here, I’m an experienced AR-man since ’72. I know why I first bought AR-3a’s, and will always stick to my convictions and beliefs. I’m not as big or intelligent as the others previously mentioned, but nonetheless a worthy contender and certainly in person, a wonderfully amusing conversationalist while listening together to a great system. Oh yeah by the way, ‘God’ made me do to all of this stuff of buying and listening as I do since way back then.

I’m always open to new ideas, however no one will ever sway me from my long term AR listening experience and love of the bigger classic model of AR’s. If you truly love music, you might agree.

Respectfully, frankmarsi@verizon.net

P.S. Sure, maybe I’d like to have 2- Bryston 4B’s, and a C.J. or Mac pre-amp, but they’re way too expensive even at this late day in their lives. I plainly admit, I haven’t lived with these other possibilities, but I’m a ‘vintage’-, ‘vintage and affordable’ kind of guy. My whole system is older than many others out there. Be that as it may, it’s still a system to be listened to and not many newer ones can ‘hold-a-candle-to-it’, even in its restoring, ‘work in progress’ stages. Oh sure no doubt a 20 times more expensive system would probably blow me away, but that’s a different story altogether and certainly not in context with what I’m speaking of here.

Frank Marsi

P.S.2 You may ask why do I even go-on with such matters? Probably for the same reason you’re reading this!

FM

[Guest gilbertparts]

>3-16-06 10PM

>Dear site members,

>I gotta say this: my vintage old Phase Linear 4000 Pre-amp,

>circa 1974 blows away my newly purchased used, ‘second-hand’

>Carver C-4000 pre-amp circa 1979, it’s not funny and mostly

>dissatisfying to boot! One might imagine that no doubt the AR

>manufacturing people must have listened to the same

>amplification (PL4000, PL400, PL700B) in testing back then, as

>it was one of the few new comer’s to that whole scene along

>with the Crowns and SAE’s for home use, circa ’70-on.

>The old Phase Linear 4000 pre-amp is so much in ‘in-tune’ with

>my old LST’s it’s not hard to listen to at all, in fact a

>pleasurable moment to say the least. I’m glad that I still

>have my main PL4000 which was around the same time as my

>AR-3a’s and LST’s that I intend to sell the Carver C-4000

>pre-amp and rely solely on and listen to how my AR’s should

>sound with the older pre and amp units. I was trying to

>assemble a second system with 4 stacked 3a’s with the Carver

>pre-amp amp and the same PL400’s. But the older, not doubt

>tested with ‘when-new’ AR’s, sound much better as they

>normally do to me with the PL4000. My present main system is

>4-stacked AR-LST’s and two PL400’s, which contrary to some

>popular belief are very mellow sounding when adequately warmed

>up (much like tube, but with more guts and bottom end balls),

>and from what I’ve read ultimately better sounding than

>PL700B’s. And please don’t worry about that rumored 4 ohm

>problem, they do quite well if properly controlled and

>re-furbed. We’re talking app.1600 watts RMS here at clipping.

>Right now I realize I should go back to the PL4000 with the 4

>LST’s and plan on getting some other pre-amp for the AR-3a’s,

>if not another PL4000, which offers so much more of a ‘true’

>AR sound which I’ve been an aficionado of since 1972. It might

>be said my ears have learned correctly and I’m not a ‘new

>–comer’ to this AR ‘madness’ on this site, as I can openly

>admit!

>The older pre-amp is certainly more convenient and easier to

>use, the C-4000 has too many switches in ‘blind’ places to

>enjoy, especially when wailing like I like to do as I move my

>tastes quickly from rock to classical to jazz, etc. and back

>and forth in one session. As a former musician, my tastes vary

>quickly from one type of music to another to be able to

>satisfy me in one night’s listening, to be held back by the

>‘control-ability’ for me.

>It is my feeling that as long as one is using vintage AR, one

>should use vintage amps and the like for a true vintage sound

>reproduction and appeal and ‘rewarding listening experience’

>and ‘high’.

>Anyone want to buy a mint C-4000 Carver?

>How about Vern, by the way where and how are you, pal? Any

>other brave souls care to comment, Minh, Bret, Pete,

>Soundminded, T.T., K.K., others, what about E.V. , H.K. They’d

>all be happy to know one person could on about their efforts

>as I do. I must respectfully say to others that I’m not some

>new comer merely asking about some lesser model AR speaker

>here, I’m an experienced AR-man since ’72. I know why I first

>bought AR-3a’s, and will always stick to my convictions and

>beliefs. I’m not as big or intelligent as the others

>previously mentioned, but nonetheless a worthy contender and

>certainly in person, a wonderfully amusing conversationalist

>while listening together to a great system. Oh yeah by the

>way, ‘God’ made me do to all of this stuff of buying and

>listening as I do since way back then.

>I’m always open to new ideas, however no one will ever sway me

>from my long term AR listening experience and love of the

>bigger classic model of AR’s. If you truly love music, you

>might agree.

>Respectfully, frankmarsi@verizon.net

>P.S. Sure, maybe I’d like to have 2- Bryston 4B’s, and a C.J.

>or Mac pre-amp, but they’re way too expensive even at this

>late day in their lives. I plainly admit, I haven’t lived with

>these other possibilities, but I’m a ‘vintage’-, ‘vintage and

>affordable’ kind of guy. My whole system is older than many

>others out there. Be that as it may, it’s still a system to be

>listened to and not many newer ones can ‘hold-a-candle-to-it’,

>even in its restoring, ‘work in progress’ stages. Oh sure no

>doubt a 20 times more expensive system would probably blow me

>away, but that’s a different story altogether and certainly

>not in context with what I’m speaking of here.

>Frank Marsi

>P.S.2 You may ask why do I even go-on with such matters?

>Probably for the same reason you’re reading this!

>FM

>

[Guest David in MA]

Frank,

>I plainly admit, I haven’t lived with

>these other possibilities, but I’m a ‘vintage’-, ‘vintage and

>affordable’ kind of guy.

Respectfully, Frank, this is a true sign of getting old.

Actually, I sort of feel the same way and I'm *only* in my 40's. I'm no longer infactuated with the latest and the greatest stuff like I used to be when I was in my 20's. Once I find what I like, I sort of stick w/ it. I'm sure there are some fantastic equiptments out there that could blow my mind. I'm also sure driving a ferrari testarosa or porsche 911 turbo will blow my mind but how many of us can really afford it? So I settle for my BMW which I bought from my cousin at a family-discounted price. I'm happy w/ how it drives and so I'm happy w/ how my AR-9's sound.

>P.S.2 You may ask why do I even go-on with such matters?

>Probably for the same reason you’re reading this!

I told you it's a sign that you're getting old! Frank, I can honestly say that I do read and enjoy "most" of your posts. Keep talkin'....

[frankmarsi]

>Frank,

>

>>I plainly admit, I haven’t lived with

>>these other possibilities, but I’m a ‘vintage’-, ‘vintage

>and

>>affordable’ kind of guy.

>

>Respectfully, Frank, this is a true sign of getting old.

>

>Actually, I sort of feel the same way and I'm *only* in my

>40's. I'm no longer infactuated with the latest and the

>greatest stuff like I used to be when I was in my 20's. Once

>I find what I like, I sort of stick w/ it. I'm sure there are

>some fantastic equiptments out there that could blow my mind.

>I'm also sure driving a ferrari testarosa or porsche 911 turbo

>will blow my mind but how many of us can really afford it? So

>I settle for my BMW which I bought from my cousin at a

>family-discounted price. I'm happy w/ how it drives and so

>I'm happy w/ how my AR-9's sound.

>

>>P.S.2 You may ask why do I even go-on with such matters?

>>Probably for the same reason you’re reading this!

>

>I told you it's a sign that you're getting old! Frank, I can

>honestly say that I do read and enjoy "most" of your

>posts. Keep talkin'....

>

>

Dear 'purp', 'Euro-Man'

My Ar-3a’s and LST’s have helped me keep my sanity by enabling me to enjoy the music of the great masters of rock, classical, jazz and anything else out there in the music world.

I’m too wise to be easily insulted, too kind to offend and retaliate. I will sit back and continue to listen to your dialog and hope that at some point you will enjoy and have ‘all’ that I have had. I’ll stop here as I believe it is good to be good, easy to be hard, and it is better for me to try and understand another individual than to hurt. That I should try to love no matter what is said and what happens between two people in anger or misinterpretation.

I will say this; if you could only try to understand my level of pleasure and greatness of my experience about my life and all that I have done and lived thus far, I would be happy to know some other individual has had a similar happiness or at least tried to have.

I will close and say to you; wait until the time is right and you are ready.

Ask the person who has already been down the road you choose to take for the first time, as it will be beneficial to you then and later to know and hear about the hills and valleys you face.

It’s not that I’m getting old, it’s that you’re just young, yet!

We’ll be in contact I’m sure as I have something you want and desire; life’s experience!

Respectfully, Frank Marsi

P.S. I can tell from what I gather about you. No, I won’t tell you here and now in public. I just know you haven’t been where I’ve been all these years in having the AR experience and pleasure for I assume I’ve lived with my AR’s almost as long as you are old. Trust me when I say, I’d be an attractive and wonderful listening partner, I had many and we all enjoyed our self’s like you would and that you can only hope to realize.

Understand that music has been my good friend, always and forever.

FM

P.S.2 Do youself a favor. Listen to the vintage circa 1991 Bon Jovi album as I am tonight "Keep The Faith" as I write to you, in particular, the cut, "Dry-County". these are words that will help you understand my country, "Mother and Father-USA"!

[Guest David in MA]

Frank,

I think my words were taken wrong. I was just trying to be amusing, that's all. No intent to hurt or put you down in anyway. I enjoy your rants and raves here in this forum and I guess it came out wrong. I hope you'll accept my apoloty.

Respectfully yours,

[soundminded]

Discussions like this are the stuff internet flame wars are made of. For some reason, people get emotional about audio equipment but for me, while some of them bring back memories, they are merely machines. Older equipment brings to mind how particular people solved a problem once upon a time. Me, I buy amplifiers on specifications alone and look for good QPR (Quality Price Ratio.) I'm not going to buy something it takes a forklift to move no matter how it performs and I won't spend thousands of dollars, especially since I don't think it's necessary.

"It is my feeling that as long as one is using vintage AR, one should use vintage amps and the like for a true vintage sound reproduction and appeal and ‘rewarding listening experience’ and ‘high’."

Well I guess that depends on what you are trying to do. If you want to create your own "mini-audio-museum" which is perfectly alright, then the amplifiers/preamps of choice for AR3a, and LST are probably Dynaco MKIII, PAS3X, or more expensive McIntosh, Marantz, and HK Citation tube equipment of that era. A Thorens turntable with an SME tone arm, a Shure V15 cartridge and a Revox or Tandberg Tape recorder would round out the system. Sit back on in an overstuffed sofa with a stack of vinyls, sip on Black Label or Chivez on the rocks (we all drank Scotch on the rocks in those days, don't ask me why) and you'd swear you were in late 1960s, early 1970s. There are a lot of people who remember those days very fondly and don't mind a respite from the twenty-first century by reliving them...I'm not one of them, those were not good times for me.

For some like me, our attraction to AR speakers is that they offer performance which still cannot be matched by much newer more expensive speakers. Surprising but true, even decades later, most manufacturers' best efforts can't equal the qualities we like in these old speakers when they function properly, even if they aren't exactly the way they were brand new (according to some here, nobody will ever know because none of them sound like they did new anymore and maybe that's true but it doesn't matter.) In a way, Edgar Villchur lived a few decades too soon. His speakers offered performance advantages which in many ways could not be exploited by the other technologies of the times. Few vinyl phonograph records had signals recorded which reached the lowest octave of sound only his speakers could reproduce well. Few had the smooth extended high end response to exploit the full capabilities of his dome tweeters. Few amplifiers had the power and extended range required to make these speakers show what they could do. And almost all of them were out of the reach of all but the wealthiest people. With the arrival of the era that began with the Crown DC300 and the invention of the Digital Compact Disc, all that changed. We now have vast libraries of full range recordings and modestly priced players and amplifiers which can do full justice to Speakers like AR3 and LST. Perhaps that's why interest in them has been revived.

While I am not in complete agreement with Ken Kantor that ALL properly functioning solid state amplifiers operating within their power capabilities sound identical, I'd say that IMO that isn't very far from the truth, the differences usually being relatively minor and because they are due mostly to slight differences in frequency response, are largely compensatable with an inexpensive graphic equalizer which I for one am not reluctant to use.

The Phase Linear 400 and 700 were among this early breed of high powered solid state amplifiers which followed the Crown DC 300 a few years later. They were still expensive. One problem with early solid state amplifiers was the tendency of some of them to crossover notch distortion. This is where the transition from the positive to negative half of each cycle does not make a smooth transition from one output transistor to the other. The result can be a harsh bright sound resulting from high harmonic distortion. All class AB amplifiers are susceptable to this (with only one exception I know of) but some early solid state amplifiers were particularly prone. When restoring these amplifiers, proper bias adjustment using a harmonic disortion analyzer is advisable. It's also a good idea to clean or replace the bias pots if necessary. (One old engineer's trick is to connect an amplifier to efficient loudspeakers and play them very softly with your ear close to them. This will make crossover notch distortion more audible.) BTW, this was the reason that manufacturers of quality amplifiers changed to specifying maximum distortion not only at rated power but at any power level below rated power and often included words like "distortion decreases with decreasing power levels." It is true that solid state amplifiers do not "clip" (distort) in the same way when driven into overload as tube amplifiers. Much has been made of the odd harmonic/even harmonics difference, the odd harmonic distortion tube amplifiers supposedly being more "musical" when clipping. This is why it is important to always provide enough power so that amplifiers never clip in normal usage, including tube amplifiers. How amplifiers recover from overload is just as important and that often relates to how well designed the power supply is. (All the best power supplies even for tube amplifiers are solid state.)

It's unfortuante that your Carver preamp doesn't work well with your Phase Linear amplifier. Mismatches do happen. Ideally preamps have a zero ouput impedence and power amps have an infinite input impedence. This would make an impedence mismatch impossible. However, many of them are far from ideal. Among the problems I've encountered from such a mismatch are increased distortion, overload, and rolled off high end. (This last one can result from long runs of cable between the preamp and power amp where cable capacitance becomes a factor.) My HK Citation 11 does not like being cascaded with my Marantz 3800 preamp and my Dynaco PAT-4s didn't like being loaded by the AR integrated amp. Usually, if you stick to a preamp/power amp pair from the same manufacturer offered at the same time, you won't run into these problems. The Carver preamp may sound just fine with its matching Carver power amplifier or other amplifier with a higher input impedence.

[frankmarsi]

>Frank,

>

>I think my words were taken wrong. I was just trying to be

>amusing, that's all. No intent to hurt or put you down in

>anyway. I enjoy your rants and raves here in this forum and I

>guess it came out wrong. I hope you'll accept my apoloty.

>

>Respectfully yours,

>

>

Your apologies accepted and I also ask that you kindly forgive my lack of patience towards you. Living and working in NYC for almost 40 years can and does put me and I’m sure many others on edge and quick to respond incorrectly to others. I was behaving in a silly manner after a hard week’s work.

I forgot to say in my first response which prompted this whole thing, that I thank you for appreciating my typically silly and overly lengthy dribble. I suggest to myself and you that it’s a better idea to move-on and simply get back to the enjoyment of our stereo systems and collectively help one another to grow and prosper.

I remain respectful, Frank Marsi

P. S. I have a strong feeling another better qualified and knowledgeable gentleman as he is, ‘soundminded’ has answered both of us and others too. His opinion has but a ‘cap’ on my unqualified rants and has made me feel better about my little world that I dwell in.

I still will continue with my appreciation of AR’s and the like as he has given me a further trust in my own personal beliefs.

“soundmined’,thank you for your understanding and maturity.

Sincerely, Frank Marsi

[frankmarsi]

>Discussions like this are the stuff internet flame wars are

>made of. For some reason, people get emotional about audio

>equipment but for me, while some of them bring back memories,

>they are merely machines. Older equipment brings to mind how

>particular people solved a problem once upon a time. Me, I

>buy amplifiers on specifications alone and look for good QPR

>(Quality Price Ratio.) I'm not going to buy something it

>takes a forklift to move no matter how it performs and I won't

>spend thousands of dollars, especially since I don't think

>it's necessary.

>

>"It is my feeling that as long as one is using vintage

>AR, one should use vintage amps and the like for a true

>vintage sound reproduction and appeal and ‘rewarding listening

>experience’ and ‘high’."

>

>Well I guess that depends on what you are trying to do. If

>you want to create your own "mini-audio-museum"

>which is perfectly alright, then the amplifiers/preamps of

>choice for AR3a, and LST are probably Dynaco MKIII, PAS3X, or

>more expensive McIntosh, Marantz, and HK Citation tube

>equipment of that era. A Thorens turntable with an SME tone

>arm, a Shure V15 cartridge and a Revox or Tandberg Tape

>recorder would round out the system. Sit back on in an

>overstuffed sofa with a stack of vinyls, sip on Black Label or

>Chivez on the rocks (we all drank Scotch on the rocks in those

>days, don't ask me why) and you'd swear you were in late

>1960s, early 1970s. There are a lot of people who remember

>those days very fondly and don't mind a respite from the

>twenty-first century by reliving them...I'm not one of them,

>those were not good times for me.

>

>For some like me, our attraction to AR speakers is that they

>offer performance which still cannot be matched by much newer

>more expensive speakers. Surprising but true, even decades

>later, most manufacturers' best efforts can't equal the

>qualities we like in these old speakers when they function

>properly, even if they aren't exactly the way they were brand

>new (according to some here, nobody will ever know because

>none of them sound like they did new anymore and maybe that's

>true but it doesn't matter.) In a way, Edgar Villchur lived a

>few decades too soon. His speakers offered performance

>advantages which in many ways could not be exploited by the

>other technologies of the times. Few vinyl phonograph records

>had signals recorded which reached the lowest octave of sound

>only his speakers could reproduce well. Few had the smooth

>extended high end response to exploit the full capabilities of

>his dome tweeters. Few amplifiers had the power and extended

>range required to make these speakers show what they could do.

> And almost all of them were out of the reach of all but the

>wealthiest people. With the arrival of the era that began

>with the Crown DC300 and the invention of the Digital Compact

>Disc, all that changed. We now have vast libraries of full

>range recordings and modestly priced players and amplifiers

>which can do full justice to Speakers like AR3 and LST.

>Perhaps that's why interest in them has been revived.

>

>While I am not in complete agreement with Ken Kantor that ALL

>properly functioning solid state amplifiers operating within

>their power capabilities sound identical, I'd say that IMO

>that isn't very far from the truth, the differences usually

>being relatively minor and because they are due mostly to

>slight differences in frequency response, are largely

>compensatable with an inexpensive graphic equalizer which I

>for one am not reluctant to use.

>

>The Phase Linear 400 and 700 were among this early breed of

>high powered solid state amplifiers which followed the Crown

>DC 300 a few years later. They were still expensive. One

>problem with early solid state amplifiers was the tendency of

>some of them to crossover notch distortion. This is where the

>transition from the positive to negative half of each cycle

>does not make a smooth transition from one output transistor

>to the other. The result can be a harsh bright sound

>resulting from high harmonic distortion. All class AB

>amplifiers are susceptable to this (with only one exception I

>know of) but some early solid state amplifiers were

>particularly prone. When restoring these amplifiers, proper

>bias adjustment using a harmonic disortion analyzer is

>advisable. It's also a good idea to clean or replace the bias

>pots if necessary. (One old engineer's trick is to connect an

>amplifier to efficient loudspeakers and play them very softly

>with your ear close to them. This will make crossover notch

>distortion more audible.) BTW, this was the reason that

>manufacturers of quality amplifiers changed to specifying

>maximum distortion not only at rated power but at any power

>level below rated power and often included words like

>"distortion decreases with decreasing power levels."

> It is true that solid state amplifiers do not

>"clip" (distort) in the same way when driven into

>overload as tube amplifiers. Much has been made of the odd

>harmonic/even harmonics difference, the odd harmonic

>distortion tube amplifiers supposedly being more

>"musical" when clipping. This is why it is

>important to always provide enough power so that amplifiers

>never clip in normal usage, including tube amplifiers. How

>amplifiers recover from overload is just as important and that

>often relates to how well designed the power supply is. (All

>the best power supplies even for tube amplifiers are solid

>state.)

>

>It's unfortuante that your Carver preamp doesn't work well

>with your Phase Linear amplifier. Mismatches do happen.

>Ideally preamps have a zero ouput impedence and power amps

>have an infinite input impedence. This would make an

>impedence mismatch impossible. However, many of them are far

>from ideal. Among the problems I've encountered from such a

>mismatch are increased distortion, overload, and rolled off

>high end. (This last one can result from long runs of cable

>between the preamp and power amp where cable capacitance

>becomes a factor.) My HK Citation 11 does not like being

>cascaded with my Marantz 3800 preamp and my Dynaco PAT-4s

>didn't like being loaded by the AR integrated amp. Usually,

>if you stick to a preamp/power amp pair from the same

>manufacturer offered at the same time, you won't run into

>these problems. The Carver preamp may sound just fine with

>its matching Carver power amplifier or other amplifier with a

>higher input impedence.

To soundminded:

Dear soundminded, apparently your name suits your temperament and level of wisdom and knowledge correctly. I very much appreciate your knowledge and view-point as it certainly seems to be a better idea for me to do so. I thank you for coming forward and setting me and a situation ‘straight’ from my ‘to-quick-to-judge’ response I displayed towards another's innocent reply.

I’d like to extend my gratitude and good feelings to you and your opinions. Thank you.

Sincerely, Frank

[soundminded]

We all learn from other people. It's important to put things in life their proper perspective. This hobby can be a lot of fun. For some people, it has become an obsession. What a shame, they don't enjoy real music (many don't even know what it is) they don't enjoy their equipment, I wonder what they do enjoy. I can't tell you how many people I've met who have vast collections of vinyl phonograph records and enjoyed them immensely with $79 portable record players. Then there were the audiophiles who had multi thousand dollar sound systems they had to show off...with one of the dozen or so records they owned. Their recordings were invariably awful, hahahaha. What a shame.

I finally learned the right way to drink Scotch for real from a guy I met on the Royal Viking Star in 1989 who was a free lance photographer, published in National Geographic, and taught photography at NY Institute of Technology. He also taught me how to take pictures at night...and we got caught in the tail end of a hurricane and got drenched in Bermuda. And he taught me that the difference between a photographer (him) and a snapshooter (me) was not eqipment (ours at that time was nearly identical) but an eye to seeing the world. Standing next to me with similar cameras, he'd show me what to look at and how to see what was right in front of my face that I missed. Enjoy your equipment and don't worry much about it if it makes you happy.

[stan461]

I have tried many amps & preamp combos with the AR3as.

Currently, I am using an Odyssey Stratos (for over a year) and have found that it sounds the best so far. My preamp is an ADCOM GFP555. I have tried an ADCOM 545 and the Odyssey simply blew it away. With 2 pair of AR3a's and a pair of Advents, I have been swapping equipment around for years. I don't claim anything and it could come down to my personal taste but I sure have spent the time and effort and listened very objectively.

The AR3a is certainly a worthy speaker but the right amplification is needed to make them stand out. They make many amplifiers sound feeble. And when not powered properly, the soundstage just does not open up.

The Odyssey Stratos is not cheap but I see them on Audiogon quit often. Most of the sellers seem to be jumping to tubes and you can get one for 1/2 price. About $600. I believe the 20 year warranty is transferrable.

[frankmarsi]

>I have tried many amps & preamp combos with the AR3as.

>Currently, I am using an Odyssey Stratos (for over a year) and

>have found that it sounds the best so far. My preamp is an

>ADCOM GFP555. I have tried an ADCOM 545 and the Odyssey simply

>blew it away. With 2 pair of AR3a's and a pair of Advents, I

>have been swapping equipment around for years. I don't claim

>anything and it could come down to my personal taste but I

>sure have spent the time and effort and listened very

>objectively.

>

>The AR3a is certainly a worthy speaker but the right

>amplification is needed to make them stand out. They make many

>amplifiers sound feeble. And when not powered properly, the

>soundstage just does not open up.

>

>The Odyssey Stratos is not cheap but I see them on Audiogon

>quit often. Most of the sellers seem to be jumping to tubes

>and you can get one for 1/2 price. About $600. I believe the

>20 year warranty is transferrable.

>

>

>

>

I have found, since 1974 and from with-in that era, the early transistor amps are the best with the AR-3a! The whole concept of high power and low efficiency was 'so-big' back then, especially for that there and back then sound pure sound,something almost all vintage listener's think and wonder about. I myself was there, and I'm still using the same stuff.

Frank Marsi

>