Giorgio AR

They didn't position me horizontally, now that they are vertical, it seems to me better, the pair of AR1MS is still to be attenuated compared to the AR2 woofer (8 ohm against the 4 ohm declared by the AR1MS...) Also public photos of the Philips amplifier and its 22rh621 tuner, also very well played

Wonderful, you have a wonderful couple (I am convinced that all the speakers contained in the cabinets C0051/C0081 are perfectly original and correspond to the AR specifications). After just refoaming, you can enjoy them for another 15 to 20 years. I wish you a wonderful listening, it will never be tiring, try also to enjoy the speakers at very low volumes, you will find the same sound and all the instruments you hear at higher volumes! Giorgio

I sell an original Cizek model 2 foam grille, well preserved, clearly not perfect, there are small lacks here and there of foam, but I think it is 99% intact. Exchange also with an AR18 foam grille, of which I have only one!

Hi Scoup, I am attaching photos of an my advertisement dated 2/75, where you see the presentation of the new AR-10TT (Pigreco), the front baffle is painted black like your speaker n 0051. There are also other slight differences: the front frame, the woofer seat and its position, the color of the dome tweeter (a specimen of preseries is probably photographed), you also appreciate the probable clear shielding of the midrange as it appears in your speakers. Yours are wonderful and early AR-10TT speakers Giorgio

I don't know if you will be able to find a correct woofer, but I send you a link where you see a 6.5 "woofer belonging to Cizek SW, which could perhaps be fine as a temporary substitute for your missing one. Look at the photos of the ad and compare them with that of the photo published by JKent, there are aesthetic differences, but they are quite similar, you could then find another Cizek SW woofer to match the two speakers. Perhaps other experts can give an opinion on the use of these woofers! https://www.subito.it/audio-video/cizek-treviso-287361343.htm Giorgio

Here is my CTS phenolic tweeters inserted in Fisher XP6 cabinet. These tweeters are original USA, dated 75 03, have large ceramic magnet, brick color ring, black paper. In the photos you see the flange built to adapt the tweeter to the original hole of the XP6 cabinet, the original dome tweeter. These tweeters, purchased NOS before had been tested in an AR4x cabinet, where they adapt without modification to the original hole.

Hi Tom, another input: I have to give you an input on the weight and mass of the 12 "ceramic woofers. Pete b. And Luigifedele, weighed, measured the cone, coil etc. of the 12 "woofers. All is well, but the weight (and is missing in all the subsequent refoaming to the original) of the bead of thick glue around the inner ring of the foam, at the time, when I removed this material, the weight was a few grams, therefore in percentage on the high cone! Besides the fact that mechanically this "reinforcement" on the foam changes its response to oscillations. All refoamed woofers, I think they need to be weighted on the periphery of the cone? What do you think Tom, I am attaching a photo where you can see very well this ring on the foam of a 12 "woofer, ring that I found on all the original untouched AR 4", 8 ", 10" and 12 "?

Hi Tom, the 12 "woofer spider argument is useful in keeping our beloved woofers in shape. I am writing to ask you what you think about my idea, following a test of mine to reposition the spider in the right resting position (it was sunk about 5/6 mm downwards) I turned the voofer upside down by placing it on my pellet stove for about 20 ', slowly the cone went down to the stove floor; then I removed the speakers from the stove and tried positioning the correct spider alignment vertically, it was perfectly horizontal, then I repositioned the woofer again with the cone facing down and thickened the circumference until the spider was horizontal again, leaving it to cool the speakers for about 30 ', I checked: shape of the spider, rest of the cone in the 2 positions: in my opinion he found his original position and elasticity. The stove when I did the experiment was at full speed, with a metal temperature of about 50 ° c, you can probably try (having an appropriate oven) with higher temperatures, I think up to 80 ° and you can probably add some thinner to soften and uniform the treatment of the spider. If you have never tried and from what I know, you have many woofers, I hope you try this system to test what I detected. Sorry Tom for my English, I use google translate, I hope I have written in a understandable way.

Jank, keep the AR6 as they are and send photos of the woofer of your AR4xa (woofer photographed in front and back). If they are not original you will find a pair of 200001-1 or 200037 that will complete your AR4xa with satisfaction (and little expense if you are patient). Giorgio

Ra.ra, wonderful the work of removing black paint and cleaning the frame around the cloth surround, the woofer so take a better look!

I decided to stay with the 20.00 mF capacitors, welded Jantzen 2 x 10 mF (in one added 0.2 mF) and finish this project. In the photos you can see the capacitors, the measured values, the foam containers, the speakers in order of listening. A resistance will probably be added to reduce the efficiency of small AR1ms value advice (ohms and watts) are welcome Thank you Giorgio

Jank,I think thath all the 8 "classic woofers can sound like spare parts in AR4x, AR4xa, AR6, AR7, AR8s, AR18, AR17 etc. I add photos of various series of my 8 "woofers, in order: AR7 first series (does not include the number, but has a stamp on the magnet 568 730 ?? and is specific for AR7 and AR MST, this woofer has incorrect assembly foam under cone) the last two photos illustrate the back of the woofer. AR4xa first series AR6 first series spare part (200001-1) AR6 second series 200001-1 AR6 first original series (200001-3) In conclusion I would keep both pairs of speakers looking for original and compatible components or spare parts: in any case I would look for the 200001-1 woofers or otherwise a great universal substitute for the 200037 woofer!

Tunedguy is correct, just the technical difference between the 8 "AR6 woofer and the AR4xa woofer. Below the photos of the AR6 woofers (first series) and AR4xa (200001-3). Then the photo of an AR6 speaker with the replacement woofer next to it, ric. 200001-1, then you see a pair of AR4xa next to an AR4x and its woofer Finally, overview of four woofers: AR6, 200001-1, pair of AR4x.

Here is a comparison between the AR1ms and the mid / high mounting plate of the AR48b speakers. The components of the AR1ms are Tonegen made, the AR48b speakers are original AR In the photos the values of the resistance of each speaker are detected and the constructive differences can be seen: gasket magnets and dimensions etc.

Hi Tom, after the AR2, I'll show you my AR2 with the grille of the Heathkit As-2a (the fabric is identical to the original AR), then you see my original AR2a with still the grille never removed, the details of the same speakers, the construction of the cabinet, and even the 3.5 mm thick veneer. (the inner frame above the grill is also veneer! You see the differences in the thickness of the frames between AR2 and AR2a ) of a wood I don't know. Certainly it is not Korina, not even walnut in my opinion ...

Hi Ligs, in my opinion the small 4 "cones (both woofer and midrange versions) are magical. We will see the differences between the 4 "TNG (round magnet) and the 4" woofers made in the USA (square magnet).

Hi Ligs, I looked in my photo archive and I found the photos of when I refoamed the 4 "woofers (unfortunately I didn't photograph the back of the tweeters - they are still TNG made, with nickel gold of the magnet) and you can see from the photos the type number and the magnet which is round (basket and magnet both nickel plated gold), TNG manufacturer, both woofers measured at 3,9 ohm. Over the years I have seen other AR-1MS, older and there are differences in the cone paper, I am also attaching the mid photo of my AR48s (square magnet, different basket) and cone made with a particular paper, with a treatment and cone cut (visibile nella foto ad h.6), welded and joined, in my opinion the most well-sounding cone mid ever heard

Hi, as you know, I understand very little about electronics but I have good manual skills and a lot of inventiveness. Discrimination by ear, comparing the left and right speakers and further comparison with the AR2a pair placed under the AR2s. Regarding the attenuation of the mini speakers I will try with a pair of 3 ohm and 10w resistors (removed from a pair of late midranges of AR2ax). Today I purchased an additional pair of mid / high section AR48b and a pair of woofers from the same speakers. I am almost certain that the mid / high content has dimensions very similar to the one containing the mid / high pair of AR2s. The first photo shows a pair of AR-1MS ( not mine ), the following my purchases.

I started with the sum of 26 microfarad capacitors, the small AR-1MS comes the whole low range, I lowered to 19.82 mF, better but the small woofer still receive low frequencies, I will try to lower the capacitor values again (sequence of around 16 - 10 up to try 6mF like the original cut). I also think of adding a resistor to reduce the efficiency of the small speakers compared to the AR2 woofer, updated after the tests.

I found an Italian site where you can determine: crossover frequency cutting and capacirors, coils and resistors to build the dedicated crossover. On the basis of your welcome advice, I will try first with the 1400 hz cut, later trials at lower and higher frequencies, below the link "teleproducts sound craftsman" where to find the screen to design the crossovers:_ http://www.teleprodottistore.it/calcolatore_crossover.html Today I will try cutting at 1400 hz by adding 29.4 microfarads to the positive input of the MS1 with value (detected thanks to the site mentioned above), I think I will use a parallel of capacitors with values of 20 + 10 microfarads Giorgio

Thank you for your cooperation and help, thanks Genek for the two graphs and the suggestion of the frequency cut around 700 hz. I wanted to avoid: first the useless low-frequency stress of the small 4 "woofer and no less important the strengthening of the common frequency of the two speakers. Currently, comparing the AR2a and AR2 + 1MS pairs, the latter certainly sound more efficient, surely the yield in the mid range has increased, the yield in the high range has been greatly improved (excellent, but perhaps less intrusive, the AR2a tweeters yield - between the 'in my opinion these tweeters are slightly more "bright" than the .75 "brothers). As I think you have already seen, I have numerous AR speakers, mainly from the '60 till'70, the only exceptions to the most recent production are the AR-1MS, the AR48s and the AR10PII replicas (I also think these reflect the original AR philosophy, adequate at the times, more present and marked on the high frequencies, but with the original AR matrix on the supply and presence of low frequencies and the unique characteristic of being able to be listened to for hours and hours without fatigue or stress to the ear! I had already written in another post that practically the AR2a (placed in the kitchen / dining room) are in operation practically from morning to night every day and they are the speakers to which I am more attached, the same is happening with the AR2, in comparison both play discreetly (it means never annoying at any volume), currently the AR2 + 1Ms seem more efficient by a few db compared to the three-way sisters, the ranges of both are full and defined. Probably the paired AR2 + 1MS could work satisfactorily even without changes to the crossover, but I would doubt that with an adequate crossover the balance and sound performance would have improved ... Genek, looking at the curves of the graphs you posted, the two speakers (AR2 + 1MS) with adequate filtering would give a more neutral speaker and with a much more extended frequency, this is what I would like to achieve, I am in no hurry and the best works are performed with thoughtfulness and taking all the necessary time.

Thanks, I will try to understand the AR5 scheme, welcome further technical help on how to successfully filter correctly the supertweeter,I think that the frequency cut must be at the tweeter (for example from 7000 hz upwards) and at the other speakers (from 7000 hz downwards). Not being a technician, this for me is a big obstacle, the same problem to be able to give a cut of frequency also to the 1MS that I now use connected to AR2 !. Thank you Aadams Giorgio

Thanks Genek, but I still need some help: the value of the coil (I don't have the ability to understand which coil to use), and how to connect the capacitor that seems to double from the photo (it should provide the tweeter cut and set the rest of the frequency directed the AR2 or AR1?). If I can understand what components to use and their connections, the work to replicate the AR-3st will be less difficult for me, I have good manual skills

Thanks, especially for the advice on the capacitor. As written, I removed the jumper to use only the AR2 woofer and I wanted to cut the lower frequency of the small 1MS so as not to tire the woofer with useless work Giorgio

They are the same and well played (up to about 83 the speakers are made in the USA, then they are produced by TNG), in my opinion the complex used in AR48 / 58b is easily inserted right into the space occupied by the container of the original tweeters !! (baffles are larger than AR-1MS)