AR logo dimensions

[andrewd06]

I'm going to get some logos cut out on a laser cutter and need to know dimensions. I'll just import jpegs into cad and scale then trace. If anyone that has either of these could take a quick measurement for me it would be much apprecited. I think I'm going to make them out of walnut, with the engraved bits painted red - something a little different. I'll probably get a few extras made as well.

Thanks everyone!

[andrewd06]

I should specify, I only need outer dimensions. Width and length. Thanks

[gary_wong5]

I also need the dimension of "3" and its font type for my AR3. Anyone contributes this info is highly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

[JKent]

Andrew: The AR3a (and similare 2ax) plate is 1" x 2". The "AR inc" came in 2 sizes: 1-1/8" square was used on the AR3, AR2, 2a and maybe others. It was also made 7/8" square and that is the size they put on the 4x and on the turntable.

Gary: If you are successful in having some "3"s made you may find buyers here.

I have some reproductions of the larger and smaller square plates offered in the FS section.

Kent

[danajohnhill]

Let me know if a high-res scan of the logo plate would help you.

[andrewd06]

Let me know if a high-res scan of the logo plate would help you.

That would actually be very helpful. I'll gladly post the CAD tracings and pdf prints when I'm done should anyone else want them.

[danajohnhill]

[gary_wong5]

Gary: If you are successful in having some "3"s made you may find buyers here.

Kent

If someone could provide dimension and type of font & size, I do not have any problem to reproduce (as many as possible).

I also tried playing around with Microsoft Word fonts selection but still unable to get the right one.

To all AR3 owners, please take some time to measure the "3" and let us know. Thanks!

Gary

[dynaco_dan]

If someone could provide dimension and type of font & size, I do not have any problem to reproduce (as many as possible).

I also tried playing around with Microsoft Word fonts selection but still unable to get the right one.

To all AR3 owners, please take some time to measure the "3" and let us know. Thanks!

Gary

Hi Gary

I believe that Tom Tyson once wrote that the logos were modified figures to suit AR.

Once many years ago i was asked to do some editing with my computer for a friend.

She had created the document with a font that she liked and she found it where, I do not know.

I was given the font name and did a net search.

it was found quickly but it is one of the many millions available for a price.

Perhaps Tom will see this topic and comment.

With CAD, scanners and laser cutters it would not be too difficult to duplicate them .

That is if you have the laser cutter.

[Steve F]

The classic AR logo is part of the Trajan family. This is a very good match if you look at the 'A' and the 'R':

http://www.identifont.com/show?WX

http://www.identifont.com/show?5A5

Neither of the above have lower-case letters, so the actual logo must be a different version of Trajan. But I'm 99% positive that the Trajan family is it.

I believe Tom Tyson knows more.

Steve F.

[JKent]

The "3" is not part of that font group. Look at the serif on the 3. The one AR used had ball serifs. Steve, that Identifont page is very cool. I've been trying to identify the font and have it narrowed down to 12 possibilities but NONE of them are a perfect match (AFAIK). The problem is that we only have the "3" to go by. It looks a bit like News 702, EF Century Schoolbook or Ionic, but the middle leg on the AR 3 is sort of trumpeted or flared. Maybe it is some sort of proprietary design?

I was thinking the 3 and the "a" from the same-era AR2a might be the same font, but the 3 is vertical while the a is slanted. Then again, if you look at the "AR 3a" logo, it seems to incorporate the AR from the Trajan family as Steve described, plus the 3 and the a that match the separate brass pins (except for the flare on the 3). Curious. Maybe a new search, based on the 3 and the a would turn something up.

Better yet--will some AR3 owner please pull the pin off the grille, scan it on a flatbed scanner and send it to Gary? If I had one myself I would ship him the actual part for reproduction.

Kent

[Steve F]

JKH--

Agreed, the '3' of the AR-3 seems to be on its own. Probably the 'a' of the first-gen 2ax also.

But I'm pretty sure that the full 'AR-3a,' 'AR-2ax,' 'AR-5,' 'AR-6,' 'AR-7,' and 'AR Inc.' logo plates were in the Trajan family. I seem to recall Tom telling me that because when I saw "Trajan," I recognized the name. But I think AR used a sub-set of Trajan, a particular variant.

Steve F.

[Robert_S]

The following topic contains pertinent discussion:

http://www.classicsp...?showtopic=1974

This post In particular:

The AR script (pre-ADD-style logotype) was designed by an artist (now deceased, I believe) by the name of Arthur Seymour Einwohner. It was based on a special type of Roman Gothic script Villchur liked that was found on the base of the statue of Roman King Trajan.

Villchur didn't particularly like what the Romans did, but he respected their lettering. Arthur then took this script and modified it to form what we now know as the classic AR logo script. There was an early version of this and a more flowing, modern version that became the standard for AR. Arthur was also the artist that illustrated Villchur's books, and he also did much of the ad-copy artwork for the famous AR advertisements, all of which were written by Edgar Villchur up until he sold AR to Teledyne in 1967.

--Tom Tyson

See also these brief commentaries relating to Trajan:

http://www.codex99.c...ography/21.html

http://www.typeoff.d...column-sort-of/

http://typophile.com/node/14496

Robert_S

[JKent]

Robert--Thank you.

Steve--you remembered correctly.

So the challenge will be the fact that the logo did not use any standard typeface but rather a specially modified version of Trajan.

So...... can someone send Gary an original "3" to copy?

Kent

[tysontom]

I think my 2006 comments (thanks for the redirected link here by Robert_S) describe what AR had done regarding the logos. AR's artwork was the product of Arthur Seymour Einwohner, and he carefully modified the script to suit Villchur. The original AR style was therefore a little different from the classic Trajan style; for example, the "3" and the "2" were modified, as well as the "R." This made the classic AR logo remarkably original and unique in the industry. So, in the end, this work was basically Arthur Einwohner's work, and it was trademarked at some point by AR.

One additional comment: the script went through a couple of iterations before being finalized. Note the slightly different style of the earliest "AR-1" and "AR-2" logos in my attachments.

--Tom Tyson

[Steve F]

Tom,

Minh Luong's post in the 2006 thread shows three AR logos--the AR-1, -2, and -3a. All three are different.

According to the logos that Minh presented, it looked like there were three variants. You can see detail changes in the form of thicker legs, less curvature, shorter, heavier dashes, etc. as the logo goes from AR-1 to AR-2 to AR-3a.

The logos you and he show do not connect the A and the R as much as in the AR-3a, and only the right-hand leg of the R of AR-3a stays the same width all the way down to the up-curve at the end. The AR-1 and AR-2 'R' legs are thinner and curvier, and the thickness varies along the length of the leg.

Also, the AR-3a logo has the curved upper and lower parts of the R connecting to each other before they contact the upright section of the R. Below in the -1 and -2 those curved parts never really connect--there remains a small space between them--all the way until they contact the upright of the R.

The left-side 'A' leg also gets heavier and heavier from AR-1 to -2 to -3a.

When you really study things closely, small detail differences emerge very clearly.

The AR-3a-styled logo is what was on the 2nd-gen 2ax, 5, 6, and 7 and the LST's. I would say that's what most of us consider to be the Classic-era AR logo.

Steve F.

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[tysontom]

Steve,

Yes, at least three iterations of the "classic" logo-style. Here is the AR-3 logo from 1958, added to the earlier ones, and the last style is more indicative of the final classic AR style. The important thing to note is that this was an AR-designed variation of the Trajan style, and it also included superscript, shading and italicizing where needed.

--Tom Tyson