Jump to content

AR3 Midrange help


Guest mazur

Recommended Posts

Hello.

I just joined this group and already found a lot of information. Thanks.

I have an AR-3 which I upgraded using Layne Audio crossover upgrade and also replaced the tweeter with a Dynaudio (although I'm thinking about going back to the original).

When I first got the speakers I searched the newsnet and one article mentioned that the white caulk around the midrange dome tends to harden and alters the mids output. I wanted to improve the mids, so although mine felt fairly supple, I went ahead and remove most of it. Question: does that affect the sound? If so, how can I re-caulk that area?

Thanks.

--

Elias

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest dogmeninreno

>Hello.

>

>I just joined this group and already found a lot of

>information. Thanks.

>

>I have an AR-3 which I upgraded using Layne Audio crossover

>upgrade and also replaced the tweeter with a Dynaudio

>(although I'm thinking about going back to the original).

>

>When I first got the speakers I searched the newsnet and one

>article mentioned that the white caulk around the midrange

>dome tends to harden and alters the mids output. I wanted to

>improve the mids, so although mine felt fairly supple, I went

>ahead and remove most of it. Question: does that affect the

>sound? If so, how can I re-caulk that area?

>

>Thanks.

>--

>Elias

Use some plumbers putty or go to eBay site that AR Pro offers some sealant. I will send you the link later. Dale in Reno.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>

>I have an AR-3 which I upgraded using Layne Audio crossover

>upgrade and also replaced the tweeter with a Dynaudio

>(although I'm thinking about going back to the original).

>

>When I first got the speakers I searched the newsnet and one

>article mentioned that the white caulk around the midrange

>dome tends to harden and alters the mids output. I wanted to

>improve the mids, so although mine felt fairly supple, I went

>ahead and remove most of it. Question: does that affect the

>sound? If so, how can I re-caulk that area?

I assume you are talking about the white material around the edge of the dome itself, under the protective screen. This is a butyl-rubber compound (I don't know why it was white -- it is clear on the tweeter), and it has a tacky almost sticky texture. It usually lasts a long time, but if it is removed, the speaker's response will be altered somewhat. The actual suspension is foam in the four notches around the dome, and this outer material was put in place to keep dirt out of the voice-coil area. An exposed voice coil is extremely vulnerable to anything like lint or dirt, and expecially a stray metal filing or something which will go down in the gap and ruin the voice coil. If your material was supple, it was probably okay. By removing it you may cause a problem for the midrange down the road, let alone change the response characteristics of the driver. Besides, it also appears that you have changed the crossover slightly with the Layne upgrade. If any of the values have been changed, the response of the speaker will have been modified slightly anyway, so the midrange butyl-rubber compound around the dome won't matter that much.

If you are a purist historian-type (perhaps over-zealous as in my case), you might want to take it back to the original drivers and crossover. The AR-3 was an outstandingly fine speaker in its day, and although you can expect deterioration after nearly forty years, the speaker can be restored to close to original if you can find all the components. In terms of accuracy, the original AR-3 was one of the finest speakers ever; and if you have ever heard one working "properly," you will always remember its uncolored, life-like sound reproduction.

--Tom Tyson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest dogmeninreno

>Hello.

>

>I just joined this group and already found a lot of

>information. Thanks.

>

>I have an AR-3 which I upgraded using Layne Audio crossover

>upgrade and also replaced the tweeter with a Dynaudio

>(although I'm thinking about going back to the original).

>

>When I first got the speakers I searched the newsnet and one

>article mentioned that the white caulk around the midrange

>dome tends to harden and alters the mids output. I wanted to

>improve the mids, so although mine felt fairly supple, I went

>ahead and remove most of it. Question: does that affect the

>sound? If so, how can I re-caulk that area?

>

>Thanks.

>--

>Elias

Sorry about the misunderstanding. When I read Tom's follow up I realise that you were not asking about the acoustic seal material but here is the item number for Vintage AR' auction if you are interested? 3072756135 Dale

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom,

Thanks for the reply. Yesterday I tried to re-install the old tweeters but one is dead, so I'll be buying one on eBay soon.

I also got a silicon rubber compound. Do you think it's safe to use on the mid-range?

Thanks again.

--

Elias

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>Tom,

>

>Thanks for the reply. Yesterday I tried to re-install the old

>tweeters but one is dead, so I'll be buying one on eBay soon.

>

>I also got a silicon rubber compound. Do you think it's safe

>to use on the mid-range?

Elias,

Using silicon-rubber compound around the gap is probably okay, but you should use it very sparingly. Originally, AR tried using liquid latex poured down in the gap as a suspension, but it was too stiff and raised the resonance of the driver too much. At this point liquid, two-part, urethane foam was poured into the four notched holes on the driver's top plate and was used as a suspension. After the foam cured, liquid latex (the white stuff, not butyl rubber as I said earlier) was applied to the outside of the voice-coil gap to keep out dirt, etc., but is not a part of the suspension.

So if you use the silicon rubber, use only enough to protect the gap but not interfere with the dome's ability to move (however slightly it does move). I think it should work.

--Tom Tyson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>If you are a purist historian-type (perhaps over-zealous as in my case), <

How many years do we have left, Tom? If the parts aren't made and in-fact aren't makeable because nobody knows how to make them anymore, well, we could be in trouble.

I once read that even if human-beings could be made "immortal" (no disease, no aging) that we'd only live about 120,000 years before we'd get hit by a bus, lightning, a meteorite, or something.

Bret

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest russwollman

Bret, I' d be willing to bet that there won't even BE any buses in 120,000 years. So that really lessens the danger, doesn't it?

Remember, outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

Who do you think thought that up? You get only one guess. Everyone else gets three.

Best wishes, Russ Wollman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>Bret, I' d be willing to bet that there won't even BE any

>buses in 120,000 years. So that really lessens the danger,

>doesn't it?

>

>Remember, outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.

>Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

>

>Who do you think thought that up? You get only one guess.

>Everyone else gets three.

>

>Best wishes, Russ Wollman

I have a good mind to join a club and beat you over the head with it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>

>How many years do we have left, Tom? If the parts aren't made

>and in-fact aren't makeable because nobody knows how to make

>them anymore, well, we could be in trouble.

>

Gosh, who knows the answer to that question. I have some AR-3s that date back to the early 1960s, and they still sound pretty much like they did when they were new as best I can tell. The issue here is the AR-3 dome material drying out, and I went and looked at two or three 2-inch domes that I have with the protective screen removed, and the latex is fine -- still rubbery and supple as far as I can tell. I could see no trace of the material "drying out," as was described. Besides, it has nothing to do with the suspension of the dome anyway, as it only protects against getting dirt in the voice coil.

The biggest problem I see with speakers like the AR-3 is repair work done by individuals who do not understand the speaker and its complex construction. The resultant repair oftens changes the speaker -- sometimes out of necessity -- and the speaker no longer sounds the same.

--Tom Tyson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest russwollman

Do I dare? Yes, I do.

Well, I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member. No, wait. That won't work. Sheesh. My crossover must be clogged.

OK. Back to being serious now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>I' d be willing to bet that there won't even BE any buses in 120,000 years. So that really lessens the danger, doesn't it?<

I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse.

Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?

Bret

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

>>Hello.

>>

>>I just joined this group and already found a lot of

>>information. Thanks.

>>

>>I have an AR-3 which I upgraded using Layne Audio crossover

>>upgrade and also replaced the tweeter with a Dynaudio

>>(although I'm thinking about going back to the original).

>>

>>When I first got the speakers I searched the newsnet and one

>>article mentioned that the white caulk around the midrange

>>dome tends to harden and alters the mids output. I wanted

>to

>>improve the mids, so although mine felt fairly supple, I

>went

>>ahead and remove most of it. Question: does that affect

>the

>>sound? If so, how can I re-caulk that area?

>>

>>Thanks.

>>--

>>Elias

>Sorry about the misunderstanding. When I read Tom's follow up

>I realise that you were not asking about the acoustic seal

>material but here is the item number for Vintage AR' auction

>if you are interested? 3072756135 Dale

Hi there

I was really getting confused over what what being replaced here. If one wants to replace the caulking sealant I used to use 3M body caulking which is packaged in 12" strips like big spaghetti noodles. Another item I found at Home Depot here in Vancouver is in the electrical dept, duct seal.

(joking) I wouldn't use either to seal around the domes though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>>>Hello.

>>>

>>>I just joined this group and already found a lot of

>>>information. Thanks.

>>>

>>>I have an AR-3 which I upgraded using Layne Audio crossover

>>>upgrade and also replaced the tweeter with a Dynaudio

>>>(although I'm thinking about going back to the original).

>>>

>>>When I first got the speakers I searched the newsnet and

>one

>>>article mentioned that the white caulk around the midrange

>>>dome tends to harden and alters the mids output. I wanted

>>to

>>>improve the mids, so although mine felt fairly supple, I

>>went

>>>ahead and remove most of it. Question: does that affect

>>the

>>>sound? If so, how can I re-caulk that area?

>>>

>>>Thanks.

>>>--

>>>Elias

>>Sorry about the misunderstanding. When I read Tom's follow

>up

>>I realise that you were not asking about the acoustic seal

>>material but here is the item number for Vintage AR' auction

>>if you are interested? 3072756135 Dale

>

>Hi there

>

>I was really getting confused over what what being replaced

>here. If one wants to replace the caulking sealant I used to

>use 3M body caulking which is packaged in 12" strips like big

>spaghetti noodles. Another item I found at Home Depot here in

>Vancouver is in the electrical dept, duct seal.

>

>(joking) I wouldn't use either to seal around the domes

>though.

>

Update 20040803

3m brand black strip-calk part #8578 60' (20 yds) 1 foot lengths which I believe was bought at a autobody shop supplier many years ago. The Home Depot Duct Seal 1# asbestos free, grey in colour, by Commander Iberville Canada but I'm sure there is an equivalent putty elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...