rl1856 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Lucky me. I purchased a clean pair of AR-11 speakers. Woofers refoamed and done correctly. Mids and tweeters are in good shape. And the foam grilles and brass badges were included. Craigslist ad, asking 325. I paid 275. I'll have a chance to listen tomorrow afternoon and will use a McIntosh 2100 amp for power. I'll report back later. Best. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl1856 Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Well close examination reveals some differences. Speaker 1 has a serial # starting 14xxx Speaker 2 has a serial # starting 12xxx Speaker one has what appeares to be a replacement midrange which looks identicle to the c1990+ Tonnegan dome pictured in the restoration guide. Speaker 2 mid appears identicle to the c74-76 driver pictured in the guide.I have listened to them for the past few hours with the crossover switches set to 0db, which I presume to be flat. The speakers are arranged about 10 ft from me, and about 8ft apart. Speaker 1, with the Tonnegan dome, is louder than speaker 2.Overal spl has been around 90db as measured on an iPad RTA app. Looking at the RTA dispaly, I am impressed at the flat output from about 250hz-8khz. I am still experimenting with position for optimal bass etc. That said, I am very surprised at the amount of HF response ! These are definately NOT voiced like AR-2a-3-3a speakers. Are there sonic differences between the original midrange and the Tonnegan replacement ?Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Are there sonic differences between the original midrange and the Tonnegan replacement ?There is very little difference. As you noted, the Tonegen driver is a bit more sensitive.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl1856 Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Roy, Thanks. Do you have any suggestions for equalizing sensitivity between the 2 drivers ?Best,Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Roy, Thanks. Do you have any suggestions for equalizing sensitivity between the 2 drivers ?Best,RossHi Ross,First, make sure the mids are the problem...The difference in sensitivlty should be very small. The Tonegen mid ("A.15" in the 3a guide) is a bit more like the later "pink" AR-11 mid ("A.14" in the 3a guide). which had ferro fluid in the voice coil gap. If the difference is really annoying, the easiest thing to do is to watch Ebay for a matching AR or Tonegen mid. Larry Lagace (Vintage AR) may be able to help you out with a trade. He has lots of mids.I'm assuming the AR-11's rear switches attenuate either too much or too little to balance the mids out...You could try a 1 to 2 ohm resistor in series with the Tonegen mid for the time being. It may help, but may also change the tonal balance a bit. It would not hurt to replace the capacitors in your crossovers as well.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl1856 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Further update. I had an extra Tonegan AR11 mid on hand in my collection of AR parts. I replaced the original mid with the Tonegan mid. BTW- the Tonegan driver has a service replacement sticker on the back. Sonics improved slightly, however it is impossible for me to get a solid center image. Almost sounds out of phase. I switched speaker cables on one speaker and they sounded worse. I played a test CD with a phase test track and could not really hear a difference between in phase and out of phase content. I then reversed the wiring on one mid, and everything sounded worse. At this point I gave up and changed to my pair of Heath AS103/ AR3a. Once again, I had a solid center image and easily identified phase, but with lower sensitivity (expected). Any suggestions as to what I should do next? I am keen to hear what the 11s are capable of. Even in their compromised state, I hear more natural reproduction of the human voice and greater background detail. Thanks !Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Any suggestions as to what I should do next? I am keen to hear what the 11s are capable of. Even in their compromised state, I hear more natural reproduction of the human voice and greater background detail. Thanks !RossRoss,Other than making sure the internal wiring is correct, and the crossover caps are OK, there isn't much else you can do. Maybe there is a tweeter issue?AR speakers of the AR-3a and AR-11 eras were not specifically designed for "imaging". They were considered "far field" designs. I suppose the different driver arrangement could have something to do with what you are hearing. The crossovers and drivers of the two models are much more alike than different.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryM Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Have you recapped them yet, I would at least do the 10uf and the 40uf before looking for anything else. If the caps are the same ones as my 11's, they are have most likely failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl1856 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Ross,Other than making sure the internal wiring is correct, and the crossover caps are OK, there isn't much else you can do. Maybe there is a tweeter issue?AR speakers of the AR-3a and AR-11 eras were not specifically designed for "imaging". They were considered "far field" designs. I suppose the different driver arrangement could have something to do with what you are hearing. The crossovers and drivers of the two models are much more alike than different.RoyUnderstood....difference in center image between the 3apr and the 11s was substantial.I will check wiring on the woofers and tweeters next, then capsThanks,Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl1856 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Have you recapped them yet, I would at least do the 10uf and the 40uf before looking for anything else. If the caps are the same ones as my 11's, they are have most likely failed.Caps are now an agenda item. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryM Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Your welcome.I just finished recapping my 11's 20 minutes ago, I'm listening to them right now. I did leave the 120uf caps alone. I think you will really like the sound. Very detailed clean sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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