Main speakers

[Guest]

I was just wondering of most of you guys use the various vintage speakers as your main listening speakers or do most of you have newer updated models for the main listening speakers.

Myself I have a pair of Paradigm studio 1oo's and MCA20 anthem amp as my main stereo in the house. In the gameroom I have Harman/kardon avr reciever & JBL speakers for suround sound for the tv.

Then a pair of AR3a and LST , and a EPI100 project speakers. My project reciever is a techinics SA-500.

Tend to fix things up then give them away to friends or brother in-laws. My current projects may never get done. Well, I can't seem to ever start them.

ED

[ninohernes]

My main speakers are vintage. I have AR-3's in my main system and

AR-2's in my studio.

[tysontom]

>I was just wondering of most of you guys use the various

>vintage speakers as your main listening speakers or do most of

>you have newer updated models for the main listening speakers.

>

>ED

I now use equilized AR-303A's with a Crown Studio Reference I amplifier for my main system. It's a rather humorous journey to see that "what goes around comes around." I started way back with old bass-reflex Altec-Lansing, JBL and University speakers; then after certain humiliation I found religion and bought AR-3's; then AR-3a's; then AR-LST's; then AR-10Pi's; then Allison: Ones; then AR-9's; then I jumped to A/D/S/ 1590's; then KEF R-107's; then B&W 801's. Amps through this time went from Dynaco to McIntosh to Marantz to Threshold to Krell. I could never seem to find audio satisfaction during the A/D/S/-through-B&W years.

A few years ago I grew tired of this nonsense. I sold off all the high-end stuff about the time of the AR 40th Birthday Party. I went back to real-time AR in the form of the AR-303's, and quite frankly, haven't really looked back. I know that I like the natural, spacious and accurate sound of AR speakers better than the pin-point, razor-sharp imaging of the KEF's and the B&Ws. With AR speakers, I listen to the music rather than "listen to the speakers."

All the while I kept my old AR's. In my office system I have bookshelf-mounted AR-1's, AR-3's, AR-3a's and AR-10Pi's that I can switch (one pair at a time, of course). This is really where I do most listening, so in a sense it is the main system. Like everyone else, I suppose, I have a small system in the garage consisting of AR-5's. Nuts? I suppose.

--Tom Tyson

[Guest lmrosenthal]

Hi Ed,

It's so interesting that you should post this, because I've been thinking about buying a pair of Paradigm Studio 100's so I can use my AR3a's in a den system I've been trying to put together. Since you've heard both the 3a's and the Studio 100's in your home, how do they compare in terms of frequency response, timbre, dynamics, etc.

I'd appreciate any input you can give me.

Thanks

Larry

[roundhome]

Hello

Well I have a pair of 9s biamped with two spec 4s then a pair of 58s on a spec 2 and a pair of 3s on a spec 4 working on some LSTIIs was thinking of puting them on top of the 3s with a peavey 1200 this is a surround-sound setup using Yamaha stuff also for fun i have a pair of infinity QBs and Magnaplaners some small advents and klh 20s then a pair of frankinstiens tsw 510s with all 3a drivers in them made out of a need, to make the parts into somthing.

also lots of old quadraphonic stuff that im putting into my computer and converting to dts disk for prosperity.

Still not sure of the right speaker placement yet they are in a forty foot geodesic dome with a 24ft ceiling. and I have been reading all the spots on here to learn from you all. this is different from Navy weapons systems. and I'm not to smart anymore .

but they eagles hell freezes over in dts sound like you are in the center of the stage with the band

Jim

[charger3834]

Nuts? I suppose.

>

>

>--Tom Tyson

No, that's downright cool ! I would like to build a replica of the New York Music Room circa 1969-1970 in my home.

[Guest]

The AR Music Room! I love that photo of the harried commuters in grey flannel, standing behind the velvet rope, listening with folded arms to (my best guess) "Take Five". Anyone know who the "AR Lady" (she of the brass AR lapel pin) was?

Along about 1985, I strayed into the "pinpoint imaging" camp, and bought a pair of Acoustat 2+2 speakers. These were 8' high, 4-panel electrostatics that devoured all of the power that my Crown amplifier could produce. They were exceptional at locking in a stereo image if you were in Just The Right Spot, and had a beautiful clarity with some music...otherwise, they were bottom-challenged, and under-loud.

My second shot at AR-9's took, and I've owned this pair for a dozen years, having driven them with Crown, Adcom, and now McIntosh amplification. My source is a Sony SACD player, and it seems to be a great match for this system!

[Guest SteveG]

Very Interesting Discussion,

I echo Tom's comments almost exactly. Only I didn't purchase all those "pinpoint imaging" models, just auditioned them. I just haven't found anything that I like listening to as well as the LST's I bought in the late 1970's, not even the $10,000 plus Mark Levinson models. So these are main listening speakers in the basement sound room. The TV room has 11's woth 6's for rears. 3a's in the living room, ans 5's in the bedroom. The first speakers I ever bought, 4x's, in 1968, are in basement storage, having served well for many years.

Hard to beat that warm, uncolored AR sound. And the roomfilling ambience of the LST's is icing on the cake.

SteveG

[soundminded]

My main speakers for my best system are "enhanced" AR9s. They were acquired from a dealer as demos in 1984 and had all of the drivers immediately replaced by the factory. None of the drivers including the lower midranges or woofers show any signs of deterioration. They don't appear to have foam surrounds but butyl rubber. Each has three additional 3/4 inch polycarbonate Audax tweeters crossed over at 6KHZ and wired in parallel sitting on top of them and firing straight up at the ceiling. Carefully equalizing the speaker makes it as clear and accurate as any speaker I have heard. I drive it with a Mosfet 120 I built as a kit 10 years ago after my Dynaco Stereo 120 blew up. There are two preamps in series, one a Marantz 3800 and the other an HK Citation 11. The most commonly used source is a Denon 1520 20 bit unit that's about 14 years old. They are at the short end of a room that's about 30 x 14 x 9 1/2 and on the live side. The walls are about 40% to 50% glass and the rest 1/2" sheetrock, and there is a burber carpet on the floor. I have had to re-equalize these speakers 4 times. There was the original time, then when the power amp was replaced, then when I moved, and finally when the equalizer failed and had to be replaced. Equalizing them usually takes about 2 years although this last time it's been slightly less than a year and they are almost right.

Other systems currently in my house are KLH Model 6 with similar tweeter enhancement driven by a vintage Marantz receiver and original Bose 901 driven by an original AR amplifier. I'm working on tweeter enhancement for that now but it's not easy due to the equalizer. I might use a separate amp for the tweeters.

[Steve F]

Interesting discussion!

For years, I’ve used vintage AR speakers as my main speakers. I went from 2ax’s to LST-2’s to 11’s to 91’s to Connoisseur 50’s.

A few years ago, I got a pair of Boston Acoustics VR-M50 high-end bookshelf monitors (5 1/4" 2-ways, cast-basket woofer, real-wood cherry veneer cabinets, $700/pr. list) and a Boston Acoustics PV1000 powered subwoofer (10" super long-throw cast basket woofer, 1000 watt amp—RMS watts, not phony-baloney watts—in a matching real-wood cherry veneer cabinet).

Sounds great. But 95% of the time I just use them to reinforce the sound of my TV (I run the TV’s audio out to the "video in" on my Parasound preamp).

For virtually all of my music listening, I have a system upstairs in our den/office that uses a pair of beautifully renovated 3a’s. They’re so satisfying, so smooth, so musical.

If the goal is to hear Brit Hume or Lester Holt clearly on the evening news from the kitchen when the TV is in the family room, the choice is the Boston system. If the goal is to close my eyes and immerse myself in mid-60’s Miles Davis or my favorite Steely Dan album or enjoy my favorite Solti recording of Schubert’s 9th, the choice is the 3a system.

Steve F.

[Guest]

I love my studio 100's. As we all know on this page, speaker preference is a very, very subjective and touchy suject. It may even be toucher subject than politics. One of the main things is, some people like jazz, rock, classical or maybe even polka. Music type maybe one of the biggest things in speaker choice. Also, speaker choice can be a nostagia thing.

Most new quality cars go faster and handle better than an old 57 chevy, a 50's vette or even a model T. But, their is some thing about the old cars that touches the bottom of your heart and makes driving them more enjoyable then driving any top end new car.

Well, my point is that on a side by side test, I feel the 3a's are no comparision to the studio 100's. The studio 100's are more delicate, reveal way more high-end detail, have smoother more realistic mid-range,have a deeper lower bass and better imaging. I'm not talking down on the 3a's it's just a factor of new modern technology being used to produce a $2,000+ speaker.

To me the 3a's have that nostagia feeling about them to me that make them sound good.

I do feel that a 30 year old pair of 3a's will blow away anything found on a bestbuy, or ciruit city showroom floor.

If you get the studio 100's you will need to get a good amp and pre-amp to be able to produce the range & detail the speakers are capable of reproducing.

ED

[tysontom]

>The AR Music Room! I love that photo of the harried commuters

>in grey flannel, standing behind the velvet rope, listening

>with folded arms to (my best guess) "Take Five". Anyone know

>who the "AR Lady" (she of the brass AR lapel pin) was?

>

The AR Music Room(s)! What a wonderful idea Villchur had with those demonstration rooms. The first one, West Balcony of Grand Central Terminal in NYC (opposite balcony to the site of the 1994 40th Birthday Party), was opened in May 1969 and finally closed in September, 1974; and the other one on 52 Brattle Street in Cambridge, Massachusetts, was opened in October, 1960 and closed in 1973. AR never charged admission, nor were any sales ever allowed or encouraged. It is thought that well over 100,000 people visited both showrooms each year, with no order ever taken. It was an intellectual thing during the formative years of high fidelity, answering audio questions with no sales pressure, and allowing travel-weary passengers a chance to relax for a few moments between schedules. Well-known AR personnel, such as Gerald Landau, Sumner Bennett, Victor Campos and others, did "time" in the AR rooms. Eventually AR staffed the rooms with permanent personnel. The lady might have been Barbara or "Sunny," but I'm not at all sure. Barbara was the assistant to Mr. Berry, manager of the AR Room towards the end. Sunny was an assistant to Edgar Villchur.

>Along about 1985, I strayed into the "pinpoint imaging" camp,

>and bought a pair of Acoustat 2+2 speakers. These were 8'

>high, 4-panel electrostatics that devoured all of the power

>that my Crown amplifier could produce. They were exceptional

>at locking in a stereo image if you were in Just The Right

>Spot, and had a beautiful clarity with some music...otherwise,

>they were bottom-challenged, and under-loud.

>

It's too bad that Crown didn't have the Macro Reference or SR-I during the time of the Acoustat 2+2. These pro amplifiers are so powerful that they require 30-amp, dedicated-circuit recepticles to operate. Into 4 ohms you can expect about 1200 watts-per-channel continuous with 3 dB headroom, more than enough to power about anything on earth.

--Tom Tyson

[ninohernes]

My dream system is: A pair of oiled teak or chery AR-3's or 3a's (I like them both) Joe Curico's 100 watt mono block kits, and a Mcintosh C2200 tube preamp. I am close, I have the monoblocks and a solid state Mcintosh preamp, and walnut AR-3's. I shouldent say "I" as this stuff is my fathers. But I will be building the amps, and I did restore the speakers. The only stuff I can call mine are my AR-2's, my Hafler amp and my Dynaco PAS-2 preamp. Someday in my own house I would build a listning room much like the one on page 6 of High Fidelity Systems, by Roy F. Allison.

[charger3834]

Someday in my own house I would build a

>listning room much like the one on page 6 of High Fidelity

>Systems, by Roy F. Allison.

You mean the one with the plants on the window and the AR-3s and the cabinets.

Did you see the Grand Central listening room diagram on page 48 ?

[Guest Bret]

>most of you guys use the various vintage speakers as your main listening speakers<

I own some Cambridge Soundworks M50s; the smallest of the 2-way Newton Series in veneered cabinets and had that coupled with a 12" Cambrige Soundworks powered subwoofer. The idea in that room was to get good sound in small packages, something the wife wouldn't hate the sight of.

They had/have their strongpoints, sorta. They sounded like most "modern speakers" have sounded to me since the A/D/S speakers of the early 80s; very tight and defined and as Tom said, "sharp." Now, the Newtons are small and sound small and the subwoofer sounds like a subwoofer, but then I never intended this to be the place where I would spend my serious listening time.

I picked-up a pair of AR17's pretty cheap on ebay and stuck those in the bedroom. Is it fair to compare a 5" woofer and an 8"? Probably not. Is it fair to compare a ported system to an acoustic suspension system? Probably not.

When you listen to one and then the other (although not A/Bed) it becomes really obvious, really quickly, why I prefer "classic" speakers to the newer designs, although I understand that some people may not. The bass in the ARs is much tighter (and there's more of it). The soundstage is much bigger in the ARs. You can stand to one side of the pair and I swear you can still hear both which surprised me with the larger conical tweeter.

I bought Cambridge figuring that it was as close as I was going to get to the sound of ARs. They really aren't similar at all.

The sweet spot is tiny. The sound is "thin" but not shrill. What did I expect out of a $250/pair set of speakers? I really didn't know what to expect. But they are heads and shoulders above latter-day versions of the Ensemble. The first Ensemble I ever heard sounded pretty good. The last was really pathetic. The first was manufactered in the USA, the last in China. I also bought a set of "The Outdoor" from Cambridge Soundworks and A/Bed them with the Ensemble. The all-weather version without the 8" drivers sounded better to me. . . although neither was very good. I can say that the M50s sound better than the Outdoor (which I don't think is made anymore).

I've since purchased a pair of AR92s on ebay and A/Bed them with a set of 10pi's and the Cambridge M50. No two ways about it - the 92s blow away the M50s, as they should, but the 10pi's blow the 92s away. So now the M50s sit unused and I have to suffer the rolled eyes of the wife whenever she sees the 92s, but she's been understanding about it. Easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Bret

[Guest Brian_D]

At the moment, I use a pair of re-foamed AR17's (Almost Identical to the 18's) as mains in my front room.

When I really want to get lost in the moment, I go downstairs and fire up my plain-jane AR 9's.

-Brian

[ninohernes]

yeah!

[Guest]

For my main system I'm using a pair of AR-LST from 1973 vintage along with Yamaha MX800 250watt/channel amp With Heathkit preamp model AP1800 which I built back in 1980.I'm also driving a pair of AR3a with same amp,alternating back & forth between listening pleasure.

I also listen to my seconary system consisting of AR-LST2 along with AR3 And the AR5 in my recreation area of house. those speakers also driven by a Yamaha MX600 125 watt/channel amp along also with Heakit AP1800.For the bonus room upstairs I listen to baby sister of LST's which is the AR-MST driven by Yamaha MX35 75 watt/channel amp.Since 1973 I have always been AR speaker Crazy and will continue to listen to my favorite Jazz favorites on AR speakers.

Regards,

Troubleshooter

[Guest Bret]

>I listen to baby sister of LST's which is the AR-MST driven by Yamaha MX35 75 watt/channel amp<

I realize that being a jazz-lover, you may not fully appreciate this, but I remember listening carfully to Rush 2112 on MSTs at a very low volume. At one point there is water running, like a small waterfall or fountian. The speakers really shone. I doubt many speakers could sound that good at that low of a volume.

Those MSTs belonged to the store I was working-in at the time and the owner had loaned them to me, short-term. I fell in love with them, but couldn't afford those and the Kenwood KR-9600 receiver I had just bought to drive my AR-9s. They had been sitting in the store quite awhile, so I thought they'd be there any ol' time I wanted them.

I went away on vacation and when I got back they were gone. For years I've regretted not putting "dibs" on them. That's been the only small pair of speakers I ever really loved. I saw some on ebay, but they were in Hong Kong or Singapore or somewhere that direction and that distant, and the guy's reserve on them was too high for my pocketbook when you added shipping, etc.

So, I'm jealous.

Bret

[Guest]

Yes, the Macro Reference would be an ideal amplifier for the 2+2. I heard another big Acoustat system (I think it was part of their "professional" line - a 6-panel giant) powered by the Reference, and it was really outstanding. Still, it's a shame to waste all of that expensive juice on a speaker with nothing below 40 Hz!

I've used the DC-300A, Power Line 4, and PS-400 with my 9's, and Crown is one of the three manufacturers that I would unhesitatingly recommend as a superb match for the big AR's.

[tysontom]

I have come to appreciate the fact that Crown amplifiers almost always work. Rarely do you have to worry about something going wrong, especially driving difficult loads such as many AR speakers. Crown amps -- especially the pro series -- tend to be no-nonsense power-house amplifiers that have very low distortion, low noise and high reliability.

--Tom Tyson

[charger3834]

Anyone know

>>who the "AR Lady" (she of the brass AR lapel pin) was?

I am pretty sure " Sunny" was a blond chick if that helps you AR_PR0.

>>

>

>The first one, West Balcony of

>Grand Central Terminal in NYC (opposite balcony to the site of

>the 1994 40th Birthday Party), was opened in May 1969 and

>finally closed in September, 1974;

Tom, did you mean to type 1959 ?

I didn't see Grand Central Station until 2000, when I was staying in Wilton Connecticut and taking the commuter trains. I really wished I could have experienced the AR music room.