Speaker Wires

[soundminded]

"My curiosity now is simply armchair stuff: would there be a difference in hearing between 16 ga. and 18 ga.?"

One of my best memories from blind testing involved a couple of amplifiers, I can't even remember what they were...doesn't matter. This was at Bill Case sound in San Antonio, TX circa 1973. They had the amps all level matched, etc and there were 5-6 of us listening. At one point, after playing one of the amps for a couple of minutes, the guy doing the switching said, "Listen now how the other amp brings out the orchestral bells better." He made the switch and YEP, everybody agreed at how much clearer the bells were. BUT he hadn't switched the amps at all. It was the same amp that "didn't" bring out the bells until he told folks what to "expect." It was a great lesson, which was the point of the demo.

So even if the 18's are adequate for the power involved, if you want those 16ga wires to sound better, they will!

In the famous Stereo Review shootout, they heard no difference between Monster cable and 16 gage wire but they did hear a difference with 18 gage wire. This can be explained by the fact that for long runs of wire, DC resistance increases and can become a significant factor in reducing the effective electrical damping factor amplifiers have over woofers. The worst case would be a 4 ohm speaker like AR3. Normally, the back EMF of the woofer powered by a solid state amplifier feeds into what is effectively a dead short circuit and kinetic energy converted back into an electric voltage is dissipated quickly. But when a dc resistance is introduced into the circuit by say a thin gage of wire, it reduces the speed at which that happens and that can result in some increase in bass resonance. The good news for AR3 owners is that the speaker is critically damped mechanically to begin with. Whether or not there is an audible result from wire resistance depends on the particular speaker, the amplifier, the length of wire, and the program material. In most rooms, the length of 16 gage wire is short enough that its DC resistance is an inaudible factor.

[dick]

even if the 18's are adequate for the power involved, if you want those 16ga wires to sound better, they will!

I think there's something to suggesting outcomes and getting them. However, we started with little, and inch by inch have increased listening pleasure by measuring with a pair of ears. Hopefully we're at the top of what we can afford...and that's a good feeling solid, heavy lid for the audio kettle.

Although it might take a week of musing about, I don't think that I'm terribly inclinced to toss a few more buck on 16 ga. wire when the wires are no longer than 16' each...unless of course someone suggests that at 16' of run one certainly can hear improvements over 18 ga. wire. Help me St. Enough-is-Enough!

[Mexicomike]

There SHOULD NOT be any difference at all. However, at the same time, it's not like zip cord is very expensive, regardless of gauge. So what the heck, try 16 if you want to. Then you could try some 14, or maybe some 12. And heck, there's always 2/0 starter motor cable!

[soundminded]

Bad idea. You realize how short a path it is from ideas like that to long forum threads where people debate the merits of tube vs. solid-state speaker wire, don't you...?

For twin lead like zip cord, bring the wires closer together and the capacitance will go up while the inductance will go down. Move them apart and the inductance will go up while the capacitance goes down. Take your choice. I am certain that the infinitely inventive mind of man can devise speaker wires that will change the sound of a stereo system. Given enough time, people will find a way to screw up anything, even something this simple.

In 1987, the last time I went to a consumer audio show except for the VTV show a few years ago in Piscataway, I went to the Stereophile show in NYC. At the time, I was installing a large electrical substation. As a joke, I had my electricians cut up a couple of lenghts of scrap 500 MCM THHN for me, about 18 inches long (good for 380 amps long term) stripped off a few inches at one end and tie wrapped them together to look like speaker wire. (They are as thick as a pair of saplings.) I took them with me in a briefcase along with some plenum rated thick ethernet backbone coax (quad jacketed, two briads, two foils and so stiff you can hardly bend it.) My electricians told me if the cops found out about the wire I was carrying around, it could be considered a concealed weapon. At the show, you can't imagine how many people were interested in where they could get some. I had a few friends exhibiting there and we had a good laugh over it.

[Diamonds&Rust]

Forget high-end wire and use the money saved to purchase more recordings.

But I have all the recordings.

Seriously, you're preaching to the choir, sort-of. I use Home Depot 14 gauge wire. I liked the "thick-to-dollar" ratio.

I'm repeating myself from years ago by reporting this, but there is a paper Nelson Pass wrote about wire comparisons and he was of the opinion that "short and fat" was the best combination most of the time.

He also went-on to explain about "fixing" a problem by using skinny wire (raising the resistance on purpose to stop an amplifier oscillation).

And then there's this whole Crown paper on amplifier damping factors and how easily they can be destroyed.

And there's this other whole issue of the AR 12" woofer being particularly prone to dipping into "little of nothing" impedance-wise and being a current-sucking hog.

But maybe you're right. Maybe even with a thirty year old unstable amplifier driving a pair of AR-LSTs with 2500uF capacitors in the crossovers, with only a 15' run of wire I couldn't affect the situation whether I was using 8 or 18 gauge wire.

Bret

[soundminded]

But I have all the recordings.

Seriously, you're preaching to the choir, sort-of. I use Home Depot 14 gauge wire. I liked the "thick-to-dollar" ratio.

I'm repeating myself from years ago by reporting this, but there is a paper Nelson Pass wrote about wire comparisons and he was of the opinion that "short and fat" was the best combination most of the time.

He also went-on to explain about "fixing" a problem by using skinny wire (raising the resistance on purpose to stop an amplifier oscillation).

And then there's this whole Crown paper on amplifier damping factors and how easily they can be destroyed.

And there's this other whole issue of the AR 12" woofer being particularly prone to dipping into "little of nothing" impedance-wise and being a current-sucking hog.

But maybe you're right. Maybe even with a thirty year old unstable amplifier driving a pair of AR-LSTs with 2500uF capacitors in the crossovers, with only a 15' run of wire I couldn't affect the situation whether I was using 8 or 18 gauge wire.

Bret

On another site where many contributors feel their wires are the most important element in their audio systems, people tried all kinds of crazy things, some dangerous. One guy built a power cord from RG-6 coax. Many built speaker wire by knitting together dozens of CAT-5 telephone wires. One guy blew up his amplifier with one. I theorized that he had built a giant capacitor that formed a tank (resonant) circuit connected to his amplifier output that sent it into spontaneous ultrasonic oscillation. One manufacturer's cable (which shall go unnamed) was famous for some of his products doing this around 20 years ago. Perhaps this kind diversion from the real problems of audio reproduction that paralyzed the industry and stunted its progress. It is much easier to manufacture and market things like this for profit than to research and engineer products which are truly superior.

AR1/3/3a/LST is a difficult electrical load or was for many amplifiers of long ago and still is for many HT receiver amplifiers. But by the 1980s there were many fine amplifiers available that could drive it fairly hard with the power reserve and stability at its low impedence loads to do a find job with them. You just have to keep its requirements in mind when you select one.