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AR-3a VS. AR-LST


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Hello,

Any opinions about the sound quality between AR-3a and AR-LST. Which one consider as a better speaker? If I want to use tube amplifier to drive the LST, how many watts I need for this particular one? Since I heard a different story about the amplifier choice for the AR-LST, someone said high power and some say SET lower power. that's why I confused!

What is the frequency response and impedance of the AR-LST?

Thanks!

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Think of the LST as the logical extension and conclusion of the AR3a design-model...these speakers shared common drivers and philosophy, but with a substantial difference in price. Both speakers are at their best with appreciable power...I originally heard the 3a with the Dyna Mark III and Stereo 70 amplifiers, very popular combinations at the time (late '60s), but in retrospect, underpowered and incapable of providing the 3a with adequate woofer control and extension. The big solid-state amps of the '70s and '80s allowed for much better bass from the 3a (and the LST), but at the cost of a hard-sounding midrange and high-end. The only consistant exceptions were the big McIntosh solid-state amplifiers with output autoformers, and the big Adcoms from the Model 555 on. Of course, there were probably a number of expensive high-end solid-state amps from the '80s & '90s that would sound fine with the 3a and LST, but it was just an unlikely combination then, or now...the Macs and Adcoms were a good and reasonable match for both performance and price. That said, it's fun to listen to these speakers with tubes, and I'd love to hear what a modern, relatively high-powered tube amplifier could do...I can't, however, imagine any way that a SET amplifier could be a good match for an LST, either in terms of impedance or power requirement.

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Guest OpusX

To echo a bit of what ar_pro said.....I heard the LSTs on just a few occassions. The LSTs were being driven by one of the solid state Macs and I was absolutely blown away by the sound. And it wasn't that I was unfamiliar with the AR sound, having listened to a set of 2ax speakers for several years at home and having 'test driven' the 3a's a number of times in the showroom. And yes...it would be fun to listen to the LSTs driven with one of the current tube amplifiers out there

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I've never owned the LSTs, but I've listened to them in home systems with a number of solid-state amps...the two amplifier characteristics that seemed to be of greatest importance were output capability (with a well-designed, robust power supply), and impedance match. I think that's the reason for the Adcom & McIntosh compatability...these designs are stable, low-noise amplifiers that are pretty much coasting when they meet their published specifications - in other words, reliable and conservative. At one point, I was operating four AR3a speakers in a pair of horizontal stacks, powered by a single McIntosh 7270...this combination gave about a 3dB apparent increase in volume for a given wattage over a single pair of 3a's, with a slight increase in perceived low-frequency response.(my experience with the stacked 3a speakers was nothing but positive, and this is on a wide range of music, at every volume level...so if you can't get your hands on the LST, try the stacked 3a setup as reasonable and enjoyable alternative). When I switched to a pair of Adcom 555II amplifiers (both running in stereo), the combination seemed closer to the LST listening experience, with a wider soundstage (but at some apparent loss of bass response) and less compressed characteristic (as I recall, this "compression" was one of the criticisms of the "New England Sound", by those who preferred more efficient, vented designs). At any rate, I agree with Steve G, and I think that it's now pretty apparent that the right combination of modern amplifier and vintage acoustic suspension design puts the lie to that criticism...it's just a shame that it took amplifier technology a decade or so to catch up to the potential that the LST design offered in the late '70s. I'm currently using a pair of completely rebuilt AR-9 speakers in my music-only system, driven by the new McIntosh MA-6900 amplifier, and this combination of designs (separated by about 25 years!) is wonderful.

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Guest SteveG

If you have the place to raise the sound level, go for the LST's. I first heard a pair in a store in the 1970's and was amazed. At higher volume there is no comparison between the LSTs and 3as. I bought a used pair of LSTs in 1976 but never fully appreciated them until getting an adcom 555. With plenty of power the LSTs do not sound loud, they just fill the space with more clean sound. Some of the acoustic science buffs will probably explain this, but it seens that our perception of "loud" has a lot to do with increased distortion. Without increased distortion higher volume is more sound, not loud. Hope you already have a pair of these, and if not good hunting.

Steve

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Audio magazine did a review in Dec. of 1972. Here are some of the highlights of the article:

Nominal impedance 4 ohms. 1,000 watt tone bursts for 2 seconds! At a continuous power of 100 watts an SPL of 102 db was produced. 90 lbs. per cabinet.

The closing comment: "Summing up, the AR LST must be considered one of the best speaker systems now available. If only some of our recording studios can be persuaded to use them in preference to the "presence-peaked" monitors, maybe record quality would improve." :)

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I showed this message to my best friend during an audiophile meeting. He said that if the McIntosh solid state play the LST so well. It must be amazing by using a pair of McIntosh MC-3500 350 watts valve monoblock power amplifier.

He also claimed that it "supposed the solution to all AR loudspeaker from McIntosh Labs back to late 60's and early 70s'"

Nice talking to you!

IM

>To echo a bit of what ar_pro said.....I heard the LSTs on

>just a few occassions. The LSTs were being driven by one of

>the solid state Macs and I was absolutely blown away by the

>sound. And it wasn't that I was unfamiliar with the AR

>sound, having listened to a set of 2ax speakers for several

>years at home and having 'test driven' the 3a's a number of

>times in the showroom. And yes...it would be fun to listen

>to the LSTs driven with one of the current tube amplifiers

>out there

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>Think of the LST as the logical extension and conclusion of

>the AR3a design-model...these speakers shared common drivers

>and philosophy, but with a substantial difference in price.

>Both speakers are at their best with appreciable power...I

>originally heard the 3a with the Dyna Mark III and Stereo 70

>amplifiers, very popular combinations at the time (late

>'60s), but in retrospect, underpowered and incapable of

>providing the 3a with adequate woofer control and extension.

However, I heard a different story about the 11" woofer of either 3a or LST work the best with the tube gear, because of the low Q of this bass driver and could benefit from the lower damping factor of tube amps.

>The big solid-state amps of the '70s and '80s allowed for

>much better bass from the 3a (and the LST), but at the cost

>of a hard-sounding midrange and high-end. The only

>consistant exceptions were the big McIntosh solid-state

>amplifiers with output autoformers, and the big Adcoms from

>the Model 555 on. Of course, there were probably a number of

>expensive high-end solid-state amps from the '80s & '90s

>that would sound fine with the 3a and LST, but it was just

>an unlikely combination then, or now...the Macs and Adcoms

>were a good and reasonable match for both performance and

>price.

My friend told me that he has heard the Cello Performance Power Amplifier drove the AR-LST back to the 80s', and still did not match the sonic quality when driving the LST using Jadis JA-200.

>That said, it's fun to listen to these speakers with

>tubes, and I'd love to hear what a modern, relatively

>high-powered tube amplifier could do...I can't, however,

>imagine any way that a SET amplifier could be a good match

>for an LST, either in terms of impedance or power

>requirement.

I am curious would like to hear the LST driven by the Cary CAD-280-SA (V12) Monoblock (100 watts Class A triode). Also, it will be very interesting by putting a premium quality supertweeter (such as Elac 4pi or Tannoy ST-100) and a good subwoofer with the AR-LST. It must be fun!!

Would you please tell me how tall the speaker stand the AR-LST using?

Nice talking to you!

IM

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