Any Genesis Fans Out There

[Guest]

Just happen to be browsing and I came across this site. Very nice informational forum. Yes, I was bitten by the Genesis Physics bug back in 1978, when I was over a guys house I used to work with and we listened to "Dark Side of the Moon" on his brand new Genesis 2's with oak veneer. Working for about $8.00 an hour back then, these speakers were listed at around $360.00/pr and fit in my budget. I immediately cruised up to Fred Locke Stereo in Newington, Ct. and ended up buying a set of 2's, a Sherwood 50 WPC receiver, and a Technics SLD2 turntable (after I auditioned the 2's on Steely Dan's "Bad Friday"). I still have all of these components today. I used the 2's exclusively up until around 1992, then the evil foam rot took over. I purchased all new drivers from Human (I had a blown tweeter). I retired the Sherwood to the garage, and updated it with a new 65 WPC Denon, and purchased a Sony CD player. Since then, having two kids kind of put a damper on heavy music listening. Well, here we are 2002. I decided it was time for a complete stereo upgrade, as i am refurbishing my basement. After getting disgusted with super store freshman salesman, and the outrageous prices of new components, I regressed to vintage audio. I updated the x-overs on the 2's with some fresh Solens polypropylene caps, lined them with lead and added some bracing, as mentioned on the Human site. I found a mint pair of 210's which I bought for $150.00, and proceeded to also tweek these with lead, braces and new caps. My 2's now have mates. I happenstanced upon some mint Rectilinear 3's, and now power them all with a vintage Pioneer SX-1050 receiver, 120 WPC (which I couldnt afford new in '78).Not a bad setup for around $400 TOTAL! Next a Technics SL1800 turntable (a freebie from a buddy who doesnt listen to LP's anymore) with a new Grado Red series cartridge should keep me busy for a while! Those Genesis 2's and 210's go lower than most subs! Hmmmmm. and EQ next?

[Guest]

I consider myself a Genesis Fans, I found this site by accident, but it looks like this board is not very active. If there are more Genesis speaker owners out there, maybe we can chat. I'll check this board periodically.

[Steve F]

Interesting--I bought my AR-2ax's from Fred Locke in Avon CT in 1971. They really didn't want to sell them to me, since they were pushing Infinity 1001's very hard at the time.

I got almost as much pleasure from buying AR speakers from a dealer who was trying to steer me away from AR as I did from the speakers themselves!

Steve F.

[Guest gruss]

Genesis fan here if anyone's checking

[Guest Joe2m]

Yep, I'm a die hard Genesis fan. I bought my first pair of Genesis 2 speakers in 1980. The speaker foam finally rotted and they were put away for about 10 years. During that time I used JBL Northridge 3-way with titanium tweeters and an Infinity bookshelf speakers. I finally got into E-Bay and bought another pair of Genesis 2 speakers and it didn't take me long to sell the other speakers. In fact,the guy I sold the 6 month old JBL speakers to, bought a pair of Genesis 1 speakers and said they are far and away better speakers.

I have completed my surround system with a Yamaha RX-v1500 reeiver, with a pair of Genesis 2's as my mains, a pair of Genesis 1's as my side and Genesis v-6's as my back speakers. While I may not have spent $10,000 on this system, friends that have, have said that it compares very favorably.

This speakers have a tweeter that is known as one of the best ever for the money. These in fact have been successfully been crossovered at 1500 Hz. This would instantly kill most tweeters. I'll post again later but a man named Huw Powell who used to work at Genesis supports these speakers. A prominant DIYer site ranks his tweeter (the titanium Genesis tweeter) among the best. The 8' woofer is also listed as one of the best drivers availible to DIYers. I'll post again to give you the URL. Huw's web site is humanspeakers.com.

I love to talk to other Genesis speaker fans. I would dearly love to get ahold of a pair G-3s or G-66's.

[Guest gruss]

Well you can't have my 66's, if you want to look at them though you can look at the pic on Huw's site of the "series 2". I sent him that pic a few years ago.

Along with Genesis I also like the EPI line, I have a pair of Epicure 2.0's (also on Huw's site) in the living room driven by an Onkyo reciever and my "surround" system consists of Human 81-10's for surrounds (and spare parts) and the 66's for mains. I used to have a cc and a Velodyne sub, but after adding a couple of 200 W monoblocks for the 66's the sub just wasnt needed anymore. It was only for movies anyway, most of their use is music. The 66's image so well that a cc isnt needed either, if anyone else in the family ever starts to enjoy watching movies at home the way I do I may have to add one again for the "off center" seating positions but unitl then....

I have a friend with some Epicure 3.0's those are pretty sweet, compare quite favorably with the 66's (I honestly dont know which I like better, although I always say mine )

Anyone in the midwest with a pair of EPI 1000's in working order, I would love to hear those.

[Guest Joe2m]

Gruss your in the mid-west where? I'm in Saint Louis.

[Guest gruss]

Just moved to the Toledo,oh area from SW Michigan.

[dynaco_dan]

>Well you can't have my 66's, if you want to look at them

>though you can look at the pic on Huw's site of the

>"series 2". I sent him that pic a few years ago.

>Along with Genesis I also like the EPI line, I have a pair of

>Epicure 2.0's (also on Huw's site) in the living room driven

>by an Onkyo reciever and my "surround" system

>consists of Human 81-10's for surrounds (and spare parts) and

>the 66's for mains. I used to have a cc and a Velodyne sub,

>but after adding a couple of 200 W monoblocks for the 66's the

>sub just wasnt needed anymore. It was only for movies anyway,

>most of their use is music. The 66's image so well that a cc

>isnt needed either, if anyone else in the family ever starts

>to enjoy watching movies at home the way I do I may have to

>add one again for the "off center" seating positions

>but unitl then....

>

>I have a friend with some Epicure 3.0's those are pretty

>sweet, compare quite favorably with the 66's (I honestly dont

>know which I like better, although I always say mine )

>

>Anyone in the midwest with a pair of EPI 1000's in working

>order, I would love to hear those.

Hi Greg;

I had an opportunity to hear a pair of 1000's a long time ago in a stereo store.

They were six feet tall and about 12 - 18" square.

At the time, a local band was blowing out all of the AR-LST tweeters, when playing back master recording tapes at their home, so finally, they took a pair of these home, and were unable to blow out the tweeters.

They were room filling and clear as I remember.

Of course we liked everything reeeaaal loud back then, and they were unfused as well.

I saw a post here recently of one in a photo laying horizontal in a garage.

[Guest gruss]

What are you talking about "fusing"

Like put a fuse in there so I cant blow em up or am I getting to old and just dont understand the lingo?

I like music moderately loud on occasion but I sincerely doubt I even come close to straining the 66's...and when something goes Huw can have a replacement here in a few months

Actually I have two tweeters laying around just in case I do something stupid (again), and the 81-10's woofers could be thrown in if it came to that.

[Guest Joe2m]

While fusing speakers sounds like a good idea. Transient power spike can damage drivers faster then a fuse can react. Also I have read that fusing speakers can slightly degrade the sound quality. I haven't blown a driver in quite some time but I have many spare drivers if this should ever occur.

Gruss glad you have the 66's, I've never heard them but I have heard the G-3s and was very impressed. While the Genesis tweeter is quite capable of covering much of upper mid-range it does come with a cost. Blowing out the tweeter is one of them and the other less efficency then when paired with a good mid-range driver. I also was interested in getting a pair of G-320s but a pair sold at $800 on EBay last night. I hung in there in the bidding but not that high. I have a 10 year old and a 5 year old. Can be spending that money considering I already have a great system. I do have nice pair of Bose 901s that I am considering selling in order to purchase a three-way Genesis speaker.

[Guest Joe2m]

Oh yeah, I've heard my share of EPI speakers as well. They were far more well known than the Genesis line. To my ears they have a similar sound especially the legendary 100 line. I believe the Genesis tweeters are a little more refined then the original EPI airspring tweeter but this was an evolutionary step not large leap. Huw's tweeter are similar to the later Genesis aluminium tweeter which is another evolutionary step which increases both upper range and transient response since it is a lighter, more rigid material.

Two way systems, when designed right, easily rival three-way systems but I think 3-ways are alittle more robust since you can cross-over the tweeter at around 3,000 Hz istead of the 1500 Hz or more commonly 1800 Hz the Genesis tweeter (and EPI tweeter) is cross-overed at. Again, these have a huge magnet, and possess a low Q and huge X-Mas (EPI/Genesis tweeters). Most 2-way systems have to compromise imagery in a 2-way or use a smaller woofer to get great sounding results since the tweeter will be crossovered close to the 3,000 Hz range.

I too would love to hear some EPI 1000s. These were a giant 2 way design. With that many woofers and the large enclosures, I'm sure that they would be earth shaking and virtually industructable.

Here is that DIY site regarding the Human tweeters and his woofers. It is a very interesting read.

http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/human.php3

[Guest gruss]

Bose eh?

Well I'm sure some one will buy them. Actually to bad you don't live closer, I've heard 901's before but I'd love to put the Bose flagship side by side with my 20 yr old speakers.

Yeah I have a 2 and 4 yr old so my system has stayed pretty much the same for quite some time...lukily I happened across the 66's in the audioreview classifieds back in 99 and have been happily listening to them ever since. my blown tweeter was the result of my ignorance not loud music, I was swapping cables around with the system on, I dont remember what I touched but there was a snap and gone....the bright side was I threw in the tweeter from the 81-10's and there was such a difference in sound that I ordered two replacements. I really do think Huw made an improvement, although the "stock" tweeters in mine were aluminum, so when I saw that I figured the final "modifications" were grinding off "genesis" and sticking on a Human tag but you can "hear" it.

And your right as good as the tweeter is being paired up with a good midrange just lets it really shine, I've heard many of the 2way EPI/Genesis models and I love the way they sound but there was something missing. That must be why I keep the Epicure2.0's around, that tweeter paired with 6" woofers seem to fill that hole. at the expense of some bass...but that aint my thing anyway

[Guest Joe2m]

Yes, I have a couple of Huw's tweeters on order but have not received them yet. I do believe they will be great upgrades to the original. One mod I did with G-2s was to take out the original 10 uF caps and replace them with Blackgate 10 uF caps. This make a subtle but noticible improvement esp. on the high end. You can find them if you do an internet search. They are BlackGate 10 uF bi-polar caps meant for crossovers. These are considered as one of the finest caps availible. They are expensive like 20 bucks apiece.

Since you have a three-way though it likely crossovered differently and would require more then one cap per speaker, might get expensive.

I just ordered the mid-range speakers used by Huw and will probably build a Genesis clone 3-way since it very difficult to find them and expensive to purchase them. I guess I'll get the table saw and router brushed off. It will take a few months I'm sure but it sounds like a fun project.

[Guest Joe2m]

The Bose 901s are an interesting creature. They are extemely placement sensitive. They are awesome if you get them placed right but if they are not, they can sound pretty bad. One thing that always has amazed me about them though is their soundstage. They are unbelievable in the way they can fill a room with sound. I'm not kidding, its unnerving. the other thing is that is weird with them is there ability to transparent. You can next to them and you still can't tell the sound is coming from them. I may keep them and set them up for a stereo only application since it would probably be hard to timbre match them for a surround setup.

[Guest gruss]

>The Bose 901s are an interesting creature. They are extemely

>placement sensitive. They are awesome if you get them placed

>right but if they are not, they can sound pretty bad. One

>thing that always has amazed me about them though is their

>soundstage. They are unbelievable in the way they can fill a

>room with sound. I'm not kidding, its unnerving. the other

>thing is that is weird with them is there ability to

>transparent. You can next to them and you still can't tell the

>sound is coming from them. I may keep them and set them up for

>a stereo only application since it would probably be hard to

>timbre match them for a surround setup.

More likely impossible ;)With all the EQing those speakers get I don't know how you would ever get a "non-bose" speaker to match it.

That was acutally one of the first things I notice about the 66's after getting them home, was the ability for these 4.5 ft tall speakers to just disappear. The improvements in the midrange were noticeable but not really deal breakers. And I don't have them in the "perfect spot" impossible w/ children, keeping them out of harms way is 1st! but they are really forgiving with placement.

I know this board is pretty inactive but I for one would like to see some pics/updates of your G3 clone project!

[Guest Joe2m]

I'll send some pictures when I get done. I don't know if I am the carpenter to build 66 clones although I would like to get away from a square box enclosure. It may take as much time trying to make a design that I can capabily build. I'll probably do a hybrid 320 design by sloping the sides and have minimimal front baffle. The double woofer design increases effeciency and from what I read, can actually enhance the lower mid and low range response. This just takes time to get the right calculations for dimensions. One thing that you might consider is making some mods that Huw recommends as far as bracing an such. It will be easire starting from stratch I haven't done those mods with my G-2s or others yet. But if my confidence grows from making this speakers I'll probably do those mods to my existing speakers. Well besides adding a room to the house, I have another project. Better keep these to minimum or I won't get them done. I have reference microphone I was using for a different project so hopefully with some cheap software, I hope, I can do a frequency response on them when I am completed and if necessary do some tweaking on the crossover. I am a real amatuer with this but I have spent alot of time reading on building speakers. This will be my first time. We will see.

[Guest gruss]

I dont even think for a pro the 66 cabinets would be easy to do by hand. to many varying angles and stuff.

An 88-41 like cabinet shouldnt be to hard and I've always been kinda curious if the D'appolito layout of the drivers on them is an improvement over the 66 design or not.

Anyway keep us posted

[Guest denmarkdrivers]

i have a pair of genesis ( green foam surrounds) bought them at a resale shop for 15 bucks, great detail good on lp. lacks a bit on the mids, great highs, ok bass thats what i thought of them very detailed for the money overall nice exp for 15 bucks i thought the B&W 220i's did the same thing but a little nicer however the I wont recommend the BW220 because B&W doesnt make parts for them anymore and the tweeters tend to go bad more then normal speakers, when they are in good operating condition they are nice, the genesis remind me of them a little, but the genisis are a little brighter in the highs and not as much mids and bass.

[Guest Joe2m]

>i have a pair of genesis ( green foam surrounds) bought them

>at a resale shop for 15 bucks, great detail good on lp.

>lacks a bit on the mids, great highs, ok bass thats what i

>thought of them very detailed for the money overall nice

>exp for 15 bucks i thought the B&W 220i's did the same

>thing but a little nicer however the I wont recommend the

>BW220 because B&W doesnt make parts for them anymore and

>the tweeters tend to go bad more then normal speakers, when

>they are in good operating condition they are nice, the

>genesis remind me of them a little, but the genisis are a

>little brighter in the highs and not as much mids and bass.

You have some very early Genesis speakers (also some of my favorites). I don't know which ones you have, but judging from what you have said, it may be that you simply have some tired capacitors in your crossovers. I replaced some of mine not long ago and it makes a large difference. Most of these crossovers were simple since the drivers were made to work together. They have a simple 10 uF cap that deliver ~1800 Hz and above to the tweeter. The caps I had on the green foam speakers were showing around 4.2uF which means that more midrange was being sent to the woofer. Get some Solen fast caps or above and replace the 10 uF caps. Its only one item per crossover (this is good time to replace the push in terminals if you want to do a little extra work). The tweeters can easily handle this and will probably boost the mid range and deliver more low end power to the woofer. As with any speaker, placement will make a difference in the bass. Genesis speakers are very neutral so don't expect great disco speakers out of them but they do create very good, tight bass.

Also, refoaming the woofer will result in tighter bass but like the caps, you will have to break them in (usually about 24 hours of playing)after doing these repairs.

[Guest denmarkdrivers]

I like genesis, i have a pair i like them on lp, they remind me a little of BW, its intresting to me the gensis sound better then some BW models and not as good as other BW models.

I'm only comparing them to BW because both lines are detailed and transparent, I thought the bw DM 220i(1980's) did perform a bit better, for not much more money, but i thought the genisis were better then some of B&W's harsher models

I have a friend who loves them, he has his pair of genesis hooked to a rare intergrated mcintosh, not sure what year his amp is, but the highs are nice. He tricked his pair out a bit, not sure if they have same xover vaules or not but i know he rewired them.

[klm1269]

I see no one has posted here for quite awhile. I too am a Genesis Physics fan. I have a pair of the 10's, 20's, and II+ also known as the 2+ which came with the green surrounds, the first 2 came with gray surrounds. I have had to refoam the 10 and 20's, and they sound fantastic. I just picked up the 2+ and the woofers and PR's need refoaming. I just ordered the parts from PE. Next month I am going to recap it and put new binding posts on it adn maybe rewire it too.

I am running the 2 way 10's (8" woofer, and tweeter) with an old Sherwood 7130 (I think that is the model #) 4 channel 38wpc vintage receiver. I have the speakers near the vaulted ceiling in my cabin and the sound out of them is amazingly warm and tubelike. I love to listen to them as I relax on a summer day and look out over the lake enjoying a cold one. I think because of the open/vaulted ceiling that there is better bass response out of these speakers than I had when they were near a wall on stands.

My 20's are basically the follow up to the 2+ with the main differences being the 20's are wider, but not as tall. The drivers are the same, tweeter, 8" woofer, and 10" PR, but on the 2+ the tweeter is mounted out from the front face of the speaker cabinet about an inch and a half. With the 20's the tweeter is recessed into the fromt face of the speaker. Is the front face called the baffle? Anyway, the 20's sound great as well with more bass than the 10's, but they do have a more boxy sound. I think I have to play with the placement a bit.

The 2+ are in the preliminary stage of rebuild. I just picked them up yesterday. I am intrigued by the difference in how the tweeter mount protrudes from the cabinet so much. I think it is because these cabinets have more overhang around the front baffle, while the 20's are flush across the front. I will keep you posted on my progress. If anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to try and answer them.

[Guest tinears51]

[

quote name=JayNemo62' date='Jul 19 2002, 04:01 AM' post='70556]

Just happen to be browsing and I came across this site. Very nice informational forum. Yes, I was bitten by the Genesis Physics bug back in 1978, when I was over a guys house I used to work with and we listened to "Dark Side of the Moon" on his brand new Genesis 2's with oak veneer. Working for about $8.00 an hour back then, these speakers were listed at around $360.00/pr and fit in my budget. I immediately cruised up to Fred Locke Stereo in Newington, Ct. and ended up buying a set of 2's, a Sherwood 50 WPC receiver, and a Technics SLD2 turntable (after I auditioned the 2's on Steely Dan's "Bad Friday"). I still have all of these components today. I used the 2's exclusively up until around 1992, then the evil foam rot took over. I purchased all new drivers from Human (I had a blown tweeter). I retired the Sherwood to the garage, and updated it with a new 65 WPC Denon, and purchased a Sony CD player. Since then, having two kids kind of put a damper on heavy music listening. Well, here we are 2002. I decided it was time for a complete stereo upgrade, as i am refurbishing my basement. After getting disgusted with super store freshman salesman, and the outrageous prices of new components, I regressed to vintage audio. I updated the x-overs on the 2's with some fresh Solens polypropylene caps, lined them with lead and added some bracing, as mentioned on the Human site. I found a mint pair of 210's which I bought for $150.00, and proceeded to also tweek these with lead, braces and new caps. My 2's now have mates. I happenstanced upon some mint Rectilinear 3's, and now power them all with a vintage Pioneer SX-1050 receiver, 120 WPC (which I couldnt afford new in '78).Not a bad setup for around $400 TOTAL! Next a Technics SL1800 turntable (a freebie from a buddy who doesnt listen to LP's anymore) with a new Grado Red series cartridge should keep me busy for a while! Those Genesis 2's and 210's go lower than most subs! Hmmmmm. and EQ next?

[Guest tinears51]

I just joined the forum and am also a fan of Genesis loudspeakers.

I bought a pair of Genesis Model II's at a yard sale for 12 dolars in excellent condition. they even had the original documentation with them. I played them for a while until one of the woofer surrounds gave out. I eventually replaced both woofers and passives with rebuilds from Human and am quite pleased with them. The model II's go VERY low, and sound excellent especially when driven by vintage amps or receivers. I would say I would need to spend a lot of today's dollars to top them.

I also recently aquired a set of AR-5's, in fair condition, woofers need new surrounds, but all the drivers are there, all work....can't wait to get them up and running too.

Enjoy the music,

tinears51

[nosubs]

I bought a pair of Genesis Physics Model 7 bookshelf speakers back in 1990 or 1991. My large Cerwin Vega's had just blown and I was angry because I had no money to replace them. I went to a "bargain" dealer and said "what have you got that's good and cheap? I need a temporary speaker until I can afford something good" He suggested the Genesis as a speaker that sounded much better than anything at the price. He played them for a few minutes, I liked what I heard, I bought them for $125 I think. It was all very rush-rush. I must have auditioned about 10 speakers and read 10 issues of Stereophile before I chose the CVs,

When I got the Genesis home and connected them to my Yamaha receiver, they sounded better and better. The upper range was much better than the Cerwins and the bass was surprisingly good. These temporary speakers were good enough that I waited 4 years to upgrade to Boston Acoustic T-830s. I still have both the model 7s and T-830s even though I've upgraded my main music system to Canton Ergo 1002 DCs and my family room system to PSB Imagine XBs. The Genesis sound better than the PSBs but my wife says they are too big looking. I don't think I'll ever sell the T-830s or Model 7s. I'd never get what they are truly worth. BTW, I gave away a pair of KEF C30s rather than the 7s when my cousin blew his old speakers.