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Re-Capping


Guest speedracer

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>Still a "newbee" here, wondering what

>"experts" felt about re-capping, should it be done

>even if everything sounds OK ??

Suggest you wade thru the myriad of posts in this discussion area under 'Capacitor Myths' originated by Pete Basil.

Also, in the mods, tweaks area is another cap discussion ('capacitors re-visited' posted by Dynaco Dan) worth reading thru.

Both have lots of opinions from the 'experts' who can't seem to agree on this one - too subjective. What are you trying to 'fix'. Sounds like nothing is broken.

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

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I replaced all the caps that look like wax boxes in one of my AR3a pairs.

Did it make a difference? I really am not sure. I have another pair in which I replaced the tweeters with an "alternative/replacement" tweeter. That made a difference. The sound is much clearer, more open and with no harshness at all. I also retained that distinctive AR sound.

The tweeters and crossovers are 35 years old. Maybe tweeters suffer more from age than do caps.

And maybe a "new" (and I mean manufactured today) AR tweeter would blow away my replacement. We'll never know. They don't make them anymore.

As far as the cap replacement, there have been pros and cons and expert opinions on both sides. Not being an engineer, how the heck can I render a definitive decision? I can't.

Once you ditch the caps and/or replace the tweeters then you don't have a stock AR3a. It may or may not be better sounding but it's not stock. There is no right or wrong here. It's your choice to decide what you expect to get out of them. Think about it though and don't act hastily.

Having said all that, live with them for a while and get really familiar with what you have. You can always change later on. It's much harder to return them to stock once thy have been altered. My opinion is to keep them "stock" and don't try to fix what might not be broke.

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Let me put it another way:

The 2 pair of AR3a's that I own have that siganture "AR" sound. Close your eyes and you are in the hall with the orchestra. A couple of rows back. Every instrument is crystal clear and focused within it's own space. I am in the hall. The musicians are not in my room. I have not found this with "state" achievable with other speakers. I love the AR presentation.

Are yours performing at 100%? If what I described above is what you are experiencing than they are certainly close.

In addition, all the other components contribute to the end product which ultimately goes into your ears. And yes, even the room. Also, these speakers require a lot of clean power. The amp needs to be stable at 4 ohms or less. The variations of a particular setup are just about endless. Probably, no two members here have the same exact setup.

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Guest speedracer

I've been reading about "power conditioning" and "Isolation transformers" and replacing your power cords and ULTRA high end speaker wire and "pole pigs" yadda, yadda ,yadda,$$$$$$, WHEW ! you could make yourself crazy ! (and broke) I've only have listened to my AR3's through the radio with a Pioneer 1250, guess I should hook up a CD player for a "cleaner" sound test(?) and judge from there.?

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>I replaced all the caps that look like wax boxes in one of my

>AR3a pairs.

>

>Did it make a difference? I really am not sure. I have another

>pair in which I replaced the tweeters with an

>"alternative/replacement" tweeter. That made a

>difference. The sound is much clearer, more open and with no

>harshness at all. I also retained that distinctive AR sound.

>

>The tweeters and crossovers are 35 years old. Maybe tweeters

>suffer more from age than do caps.

>

>And maybe a "new" (and I mean manufactured today) AR

>tweeter would blow away my replacement. We'll never know. They

>don't make them anymore.

>

>As far as the cap replacement, there have been pros and cons

>and expert opinions on both sides. Not being an engineer, how

>the heck can I render a definitive decision? I can't.

>

>Once you ditch the caps and/or replace the tweeters then you

>don't have a stock AR3a. It may or may not be better sounding

>but it's not stock. There is no right or wrong here. It's your

>choice to decide what you expect to get out of them. Think

>about it though and don't act hastily.

>

>Having said all that, live with them for a while and get

>really familiar with what you have. You can always change

>later on. It's much harder to return them to stock once thy

>have been altered. My opinion is to keep them

>"stock" and don't try to fix what might not be

>broke.

>

>

>

Thanks Stan461 for your insights and sharing your experiences with us.

From another perspective on the original question - are you (speedracer) interested in maximizing authenticity? or, trying to improve the sound? That's the BIG question all new AR3a owners must wrestle with.

If you're planning to unload them as authentic restorations (Asian buyers are paying megabucks on ebay these days) then clean them up and keep as many original parts as possible - even if it means finding some good working paper/oil caps or whatever to replace defective ones.

If, on the other hand, you plan to keep them for enjoying your favorite music, follow Stan's advice........

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

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Start with the basics.

The speakers alter the sound of an audio system more than any other component. You have great speakers already. From there it goes to amplification then to sound source and so forth winding all the way down to the real fine tuning with line-conditioners, isolation devices, etc. ( if they do anything to improve the sound at all).

Don't drive yourself crazy. You can build a great sounding system with a lot of research, careful shopping and some patience.

As stated before in this thread, read thru the posts here and use the search. There is just so much ground that has already been covered and is available 24/7 for free.

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Guest speedracer

Carl, I want both, maybe with only slight upgrades internally, I don't want change componets, don't think I need to, all 3 parts work fine, so that's why I ask: re-cap (to bring them back to factory specs) or they're fine, don't mess with 'em. So without another re-capped pair to compare them to, but the consensus seems to be, caps DO get old and don't perform up to their peak and should be replaced, will I hear the difference ? I don't know, what do worn out caps sound like ?

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>I don't know, what do worn out caps sound like ?<

Most often it is described as a harshness through the ____. What happens is the crossover points change and where you used to have this more-or-less smooth transition from woofer to midrange and midrange to treble, you get a "bump" where the upper-frequency driver is playing too loudly down into the frequency range of the next lowest frequency driver.

Sometimes the offense is bad enough to cause a tweeter to shriek or a midrange to rattle. (straining to play frequencies they are not designed to handle, they protest being played-to-pieces)

If the offense isn't terrible, it can be hard to hear unless you have a "corrected" version to compare with.

The great news is that capacitor replacement does not need to be a destructive process. You can leave the old capacitors in the cabinet and with patience de-solder the old capacitor's leads. Anytime you want to "restore" the system to "stock" all it takes is a pair of wire-cutters and a little more solder.

To know what you will gain, if anything, you just have to try it, at least with one speaker. The most compelling argument for it is to prevent damage to already old, fragile, and irreplaceable drivers.

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Guest speedracer

Hey Bret, so in simple terms, worn caps make the components work harder, and then possible damage. A VERY good reason to re-cap, thanks, Martin

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I'm a little hesitant to chime in about whether you should or shouldn't recap, but others have already pointed out you need to decide what is most important - original parts or, potentially improved sound.

I have 3 sets of AR4X speakers that I recapped, within a one day period last year. Before recapping, I set up 2 sets, side by side and matched tweeter levels, by ear as closely as possible. A listening panel of my Dad, and 2 mid fifties people, agreed that the speaker sets were very similar sounding before recap. After changing one set of speakers, we all immediately identified the just recapped set (blind test), as the better sounding set in repeated tests. We got the same results as each set was recapped. There was a clearly perceived preference, by all 3 of us, for the recapped over the original each time. Improved clarity in the mids and highs is about as good a description as I can offer for the recapped speakers. Before recapping, I thought of the speakers as sounding good - I did the recapping based on various people's comments on this site, without really knowing what I wanted to accomplish, other than changing an old, possibly weak part.

Caps were Dayton polypros and power was supplied by a Sansui 4000 receiver.

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Guest speedracer

From what I've read here and on other sites, caps get old and don't perform properly(?), and the sound of the speakers suffers and possible damage to the components also, and that's the only parts I want to upgrade, tweeters, mids and woofers all work.

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