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ReliaBill Engineer

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  1. ReliaBill Engineer
    How many people who buy a new speaker want response curves, so they can compare to published response curves? And 58 year old speakers? Anyone who asks *me* for response curves is out of luck. What they can do, however, is feel free to adjust the pots to their liking. I’m confident that there are pot settings on these that will exactly match original response curves. And from original: All original drivers, original pots, original wiring, original interior rock wool, all original veneer, original grills and original grill cloth, new capacitors.
  2. ReliaBill Engineer
    Very few would care. The white dot setting is relative anyway. Most everyone is going to set and adjust by ear, regardless of the white dots. My repair of the tweeters kinda blows those white dot settings out of the water anyway, so it’s really a moot point. I showed the pic of the pot settings to my wife and oldest son. They both assumed the white dot would equate to 50% output. So it’s intuitive. I don’t like the sound of these, as delivered. The seller, the original buyer/owner’s son, said he tried them, didn’t care for them. “Too dull sounding.” He removed the badges from the grills and sold them. Only the most die-hard AR fans like them as they are. My son wants these when I’m done. He likes the “cool factor” and says they will sound great when the second speaker is updated. I agree. Others apparently think the HiVi tweeter is an upgrade, not a molestation. I think updating the capabilities of the original tweeter is a better way to go. Certainly more original than a replacement tweeter. Updating the capabilities of the original tweeter is no more blasphemous than replacing the capacitors, IMO. As you are aware ^^^^ I took pictures of the original pot positions. They can be returned; I left plenty of wire slack. So let me ask you this: Would “original aficionados” even be interested in these, since I “changed” the character of these original tweeters? Somehow I don’t think I need to worry.
  3. ReliaBill Engineer
    So here is the second speaker, grill removed last night. The tweeter appears to be in pristine condition, as do the mid and woofer. I’ll change out the capacitors, check the pots and adjust their positions. Then I’ll replace the woofer and have another listen.
  4. ReliaBill Engineer
    I respectfully disagree. The graphic for the pots “imply” that the white dot is a 50% setting. That’s why I said “cheating” in quotation marks. It doesn’t require one to be a veteran AR aficionado to see that. I will reset the second speaker so the white dots “are” at 50% of the wiper travel, as I did the first one. Makes sense to me.
  5. ReliaBill Engineer
    Cheat? Yes. On the tweeter pot, the white dot lines up with a 75-80% setting, from the factory. The mid is pretty close; at the white dot, you’re close to 50%. Full increase, where I set the the pots: At full decrease: Factory mount, full increase: Factory mount, full decrease:
  6. ReliaBill Engineer
    Here is the raw, unmolested speaker. Both pots turned up to 100%. I get output from the mid and tweet. Both pots turn down/up their respective drivers. BTW: AR cheated on the pots. When I mounted the cleaned pots in the first speaker, I mounted the pots so 50% lined up perfectly with the white dot. I had to rewire the pots to get enough wire slack. 50% and the white dots don’t match up in the original manufactured configuration. And for comparison, same track, rebuilt tweeter, new caps, cleaned pots:
  7. ReliaBill Engineer
    Getting ready to work on the 2nd speaker of the pair. The pots rotate freely, and the mid and (super) tweeter respond to turning the pots. There is faint output from the tweeter. Cabs of both are in very good condition; no crushed corners or peeling veneer. Just lots of scratches in the finish. Badges are gone. Sold, likely. Im going to record from this as-is. Possibly as close to original tweeter domes as I’ll ever find. Stapes:
  8. ReliaBill Engineer
    He had this version of the W70. The tweeter, not the pink donut:
  9. ReliaBill Engineer
    I noticed those issues when trying to video-record the 2ax also. It’s very difficult to capture the sound and not have the phone/YouTube distort it. But I can hear what your 3 and 3a are putting out, and mentally filter the artifacts added by phone/YouTube. Awesome!! Im thankful my 2ax’s don’t have the corner issues and veneer separation. I don’t have the tools nor the space to deal with it. Light sanding and new satin finish is about all I can handle.
  10. ReliaBill Engineer
    My dad only owned 2 pairs of speakers in his entire 93 years. Just the ARs and Wharfdales. He was quite into HiFi in the 50s and 60s. He got laid off from NASA in 1972, after Apollo 17. He has an amazing memory. Life took over after that. I wish bass came through on YouTube vids. I put on my Shure V15V cart and was playing some Linda Ronstadt earlier, my wife’s favorite singer. The vid doesn’t seem to play the bass heft and tightness. I love what AR managed to get from these. The more varied the music, the more I’m impressed.
  11. ReliaBill Engineer
    I have to admit, that my expectations for these speakers (after cap replacement, pots cleaned) may not have met their “off the shelf” AR intended performance. But right now, my dad is happy, my wife is happy (story later…) and I’m happy. These do what the ‘66 Wharfdales couldn’t do. I remember those well; I rebuilt them in 1982. They were chesty, beamy, fatiguing, yet “clear.” No sweet smoothness, and no “melting” of the output into a cohesive output. It’s like each driver was audible unto its own. But their cabinets had my mother’s WAF. I absolutely love how this (later, “these!”) speaker, using a mono signal, delivers a sense of air and depth. Easy smoothness. If that’s the “AR sound”, I’m liking it! WAF: My wife read me the riot act when these ARs showed up. Man, did she let me have it!! “Wasted money! No room! Another project!” When I brought them in, wired them, played them, (untouched) she let me have it again. “Why? Your other speakers sound fine! I don’t like these! They look old! I don’t like those covers! Do they have roaches and bugs??! Where are you going to put them??! They don’t sound very good! You wasted our money!” I can honestly say that now, she is more understanding, and more approving. She still wants black grill cloth….
  12. ReliaBill Engineer
    I have choices. Using the pot, the tweeter can be turned down to “OEM” levels, or turned up to help the mid-tweet, kissing or surpassing the mid-tweet while (both) having sufficient output to match and compliment the woofer. IMO it was a mistake to not allow the tweeter to fully compliment the other drivers. The fact that AR later changed to a different tweeter supports this. AR was more limited in materials back then, than now. This tweeter has a very powerful magnetic circuit. AR purposefully used brute force to restrain this tweeter’s output, overdamping the internal air volume, and restraining the dome by its suspension. What I did was trade for more controlled output by using a lossy suspension. The red compound I used can be dropped from 4 feet vertical and it won’t bounce; yet it is very elastic. So I freed up the dome just a tad, but it is highly damped. So this tweeter now accommodates more modern tastes, or not. Just a turn of the pot. OEM or more modern. It handles power. This evening I was peaking at 90 watts,40 watts music power. No breakup and no distortion. Wife was out talking to neighbors.
  13. ReliaBill Engineer
    Well, maybe CSP folks should reconsider. The alternative is….nothing. Just pics. So, if I said that I thought these sounded good, then left you with just pics, what would anyone learn? What gauge would you have?
  14. ReliaBill Engineer
    Exactly my point. Again, balance, clarity, definition, smoothness, lack of distortion were my goals. There exists no way to hear a “new, original” AR tweeter for these. I trust my dad’s memory. He’s old, but his hearing and memory are very good. He’s anxiously awaiting my dive into the other speaker, then to finish the cosmetic work.
  15. ReliaBill Engineer
    Problem here is that while we can see the XO response below target frequency, we can’t see relative output of the tweeter vs the mid-tweeter. That is a chart of only the tweeter response on, and off axis. As long as I can get balance by adjusting the pots, I’m satisfied. The fact that I can get balance within the adjustment range of both pots, tells me I’m where I need to be with the tweeter output. And getting balance with both, AND the woofer, is a wonderful sound! Currently I’m at 80% on the tweeter, 60% on the mid-tweet.
  16. ReliaBill Engineer
    There is a pot I can use to turn down the tweeter output. I’m looking for *balance* here; the biggest complaint I’ve read about in various groups/forums re: these original drivers is lack of balance between the mid and tweeter. I’ve seen folks add padding resistors to the mid, and I’ve seen folks replace the tweeter; I’ve seen folks replace the mid driver. As for duplicating results, that’s easy. But at this point, the second tweeter is exactly as received. Soon enough, I’ll take a look at it. But a huge question remains: Who out there has a brand new original tweeter for these? My dad is still alive, who had bought a pair of 2ax speakers new in early ‘65. He decided to trade them in late in ‘66 for a pair of Wharfdale W70Ds, with a Garrard Lab 80 turntable. He regretted it. For over 50 years, when we talk stereo stuff, he still mentions those AR 2ax speakers. That’s why I recorded the 1964 Billy Vaughn track, it was one of his favorite records he remembers hearing over the ARs. He says this one AR speaker is the way he remembers it. So there’s that. If anyone has a recording of a new original early AR 2ax tweeter, I’d love to hear it! Bass doesn’t come across well over cell phone speakers. But I can hear good mids/tweeter balance…or not. I can clearly hear how inadequate the tweeter was in my first recording pre-rebuild. And in my living room, this speaker sounds very good. Lacking nothing, and giving my Polks a run for the money in every area. The AR impressed me, even in a mono source.
  17. ReliaBill Engineer
    Here is an apples to apples comparison. Same track of music, same cartridge. Before tweeter rebuild and after. The next speaker in the pair will be the same. Before tweeter rebuild (caps replaced, pots cleaned and working): (Mid driver is overpowering the balance of sound) AFTER tweeter rebuild: The above are playing a 2022 recording from Octave records on vinyl. Below is a 1964 recording from Billy Vaughn, using the rebuilt tweeter. A new stereo album when these speakers were new (approximately):
  18. ReliaBill Engineer
    Such an amazing difference when the phenolic dome tweeter is working to its full potential!! It competes very well with modern speakers! Just a delight to listen to! Before the early 2ax Tweeter Rebuild: After the Tweeter Rebuild:
  19. ReliaBill Engineer
    Here is a comparison, before and after the tweeter rebuild, using the same music track. Jazz from one of my Octave Records Audiophile Masters recordings on vinyl. Balanced output from the tweeter and mid driver makes such a huge difference!! And now, the butyl rubber is completely cured and stable for many decades to come! Before: After:
  20. ReliaBill Engineer
    I need to record that same track I started with. After tweeter rebuild:
  21. ReliaBill Engineer
    Sure is quiet in here…… Was hoping for a bit of feedback.
  22. ReliaBill Engineer
    I’ll pretty up the baffle, then start on the 2nd speaker. If its tweeter needs work, I won’t add the 4 suspension points. I’m going to smooth the baffle, then use satin black finish.
  23. ReliaBill Engineer
    A sound test of the rebuilt tweeter:
  24. ReliaBill Engineer
    Been listening this evening. What a huge difference! Now I have balance. With the tweeter at 100% and the mid at 65%, the sound is no longer squawky and brash. My room is acoustically quite dead. Wall to wall carpet, drapes, cloth upholstered couch, loveseat, recliner. I can put my ear to the tweeter and hear plenty of output where I could barely hear anything before. It shimmers sweetly, not irritating at all. Could this be better? Probably. I don’t think it needs the 4-point suspension add-on. I think the clear butyl surround membrane is all it needs. It just needs a filler at those 4 notches surrounding the VC gap. That’s what I started to do originally. I was going to insert a strip of parchment paper, rolled into a tube. Then fill in the 4 notches flush to the top of the face plate with butyl. Let cure. Then remove the parchment to match the circumference of the faceplate gap. Position the tweeter in the gap. Clamp it down. Then just apply the thin membrane butyl seal. Let cure. The 4 notches in the faceplate. Still has remnants of yellow foam in them (I forgot to take a pic after cleaning out the gap and notches.):
  25. ReliaBill Engineer
    The other tweeter hasn’t been molested. I haven’t even removed the grill; it’s still stapled. Still original condition as I received it. Currently the tweeter makes no sound. Mid is muted.
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