RTally
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On 9/19/2019 at 11:43 AM, ChrisM said:
So I ended up getting an entire gallon of Toluene and thinned out some of Roy's goo. In a non-scientific way, I would say that the result was about half as thick. I have some totally beat up 11 portable speakers which are essentially unrestorable because of the case so I didn't feel bad about harvesting a driver to try the thinned goo on.
It would appear that there is more than one variety of 12.5 which I hadn't realized.
The ones out of the portable have a different surround from the ones in my 11w's. I haven't looked yet at any of my 14's.
The material is cloth with a clearish sealant. The ones from the 11w are more like a gauze with a black sealant. The cloth ones also have a lower Fs.
Any ideas?
KLH cloth surrounds are generally either brown/tan or black. I believe that the black surrounds were that way from the factory and just had carbon black added to the doping material. RoyC's goop will work on either type. I know 'cuz my KLJ Sixes have brown surrounds and my Twenties have black surrounds.
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On 9/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, TomK said:
30hz is used to test whether or not the voice coil is centered. My material science information is extremely old at this point, but I would think the purpose of synthetic foam is to ensure a consistent suspension throughout its lifespan. Can foam really soften that way?
Every woofer I have refoamed (dozens) have sounded better after several hours of use. My experience is that foams loosen up and go deeper with use.
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On 8/26/2019 at 10:59 AM, JKent said:
I'm sure Chris sealed the tweeters properly.
The "woofer test" is simple: Put 3 fingers on the cone, like a tripod, around the perimeter of the dust cap. Push in. The woofer should return slowly. If it springs back immediately there's an air leak.
If you have not resealed around the woofers they'll fail the push test. An acoustic suspension speaker depends upon a sealed box to get the best bass extension so yes--resealing (I assume you mean gaskets or duct seal) where the woofers meet the cabinets should make a significant improvement.
When doing the push test, after you push in, hold that position for at least 10 seconds so that the air pressure stabilizes. Then quickly release the cone to see how long it takes to return to resting position. One second or longer to return is good. Less than 1/2 second indicates air leakage, either through the surround or elsewhere.
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I am firmly in the camp of using a tone to magnetically center the voice coil. The advantage is you do not have to mess with the dust cap - no cutting out the dust cap, no gluing it back in.
For the tone method, use a tone generator (I have an app on my phone) and play a 30 to 40 Hz Hz tone through the driver. Play the tone only loud enough that you can feel the cone move.
I glue the inside of the surround to the cone and let it dry. Then I attach the leads from my stereo to the driver and get ready to play the tone. I glue the outer edge of the surround to the basket and then play the tone as I press the surround edge in place.
Using Aleene's glue, I have a couple minutes to mess around with the cone and surround to ensure all is well. Before the glue sets, I turn off the tone and then play with the cone. Push it in evenly and see if you can hear or feel any scratching. Press on each side and see what you notice. I do this so that I can learn what happens when the cone is not centered.
I then play the tone again to ensure the VC is centered while going around the edge of the surround to ensure it is seated and the glue is starting to cure. When I am satisfied, I turn off the tone and let the glue cure. Sometimes I clamp the surround to the basket to hold it in place. Other times I just keep pressing around the surround until the glue dries. Aleene's sets up in about 5 minutes.
After the glue is cured, press the cone evenly around the VC to ensure there is no rubbing. I've done dozens this way and have never had a problem. You are done.
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Do the push test. Push in the woofer, hold for several seconds, and then quickly release. See how long it takes the cone to return to its normal position.
Generally, anything over about 1/2 second is fine, with the better sealed speakers taking more than a second to return. If the cone pops back too quickly, you have a leak somewhere, either the surround or elsewhere.
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I have two pair of Dynaco A25 speakers. Three of the four speakers have the port on top. I have seen references to this version being called A25X, not to be confused with the A25XL.
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Mortite, as Aadams, points out above is commonly used. Many of the vintage speakers I've rebuilt have used something similar. I generally replace the original with fresh Mortite and I get a good seal on my drivers. It is readily available almost anywhere.
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Most times the glue in vintage speakers is easily lifted with a putty knife. At least, that is all I needed for dozens of speakers. I use the edge of the putty knife (a steel one, not plastic) to get under an edge of the glue and pry up. If the glue is hard, it cracks and comes away in pieces. Or if it is a bit soft, it pries up in on big piece.
The alternative is to leave the glued parts in place and cut the leads. I solder new caps either to the left over leads or to their terminating point, depending upon which has easier access.
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Does your Seventeen match this schematic?
It is best to replace the caps with like-for-like values. Redesigning a crossover is not a trivial task. The KLH 17 crossover is not a simple first order filter. It is a 3x cascaded, first order filter that has a switchable FR for the tweeter.
Each position of the switch has a different contour for the tweeter FR. The 3 ohm resistors in parallel with the 2 uF caps allow a portion of the signal to bypass the cap and has the effect of lowering the attenuation at higher frequencies. The frequency at which the attenuation changes and the amount of attenuation is a function of the switch position.
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You should be able to post pictures as long as they are no more than 100 kB in size.
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As further confirmation, my KLH Twenties have black cloth surrounds. The surrounds look original with the cloth fibers visible. RoyC's doping solution soaked just like it should, so my speakers were not coated with another, unapproved compound.
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Villchur was granted several patents. One in GB and another in the US were specifically for acoustic suspension speakers. The US patent expired in 1973.
Villchur's patents: https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Villchur&oq=Villchur
I have no idea if he licensed his patents or if he just let others infringe.
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Often, a flapping or farting sound when playing heavy bass is due to the surround coming loose. I suggest inspecting the surrounds to ensure that they are still firmly attached all the way around to the cone and the basket.
As for recapping, it depends. Generally, 40+ year old electrolytic caps have degraded. It is their nature. But the degree of degradation will vary.
I recapped one A25 in my pair and could not tell the difference when I A/B the speakers. So I did not bother recapping the other speaker (the woofer was also stuck to the baffle firmly and I did not feel like fighting it). The cap in my A25 was a silver can type and not one of the Temple caps known to fail.
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8 hours ago, fran604g said:
? hmmm...I have a pair of these stashed. Never tried them out. How might they compare to something like the Lg. Advents?
I suggest you try them out. You might be surprised.
I have a pair of Model Twenty's that I recapped and added binding posts, similar to what JKent did. I also have a pair of OLA and had a pair of NLA and Advent/1 and Legacy II. I like the 20s better, even if the OLA may dig a bit deeper.
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At their best, all AR speakers look cosmetically damaged. They are downright ugly with the grills off.
I do not see anything unusual about your mids. Your pictures look like a bunch of other mids I see doing a google image search.
The true test is do they work? Put some music to them to see if they reproduce the sound.
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I have a pair of Lowboys, too. But I had to pay for mine.
Your picture shows the lattice cover in place. That heavy lattice grill blocks a lot of the high end. I recapped my Lowboys and they sound fantastic with the grills removed. I plan on making some cloth grills, but I am too busy listening to them.
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2 hours ago, Horswispr said:
How did you find my ancient review? Heh. I haven't heard Dynaco A-25XLs since I wrote that (I still have a pair of A-25s here), but I did refinish a pair of A-40XLs that sounded pretty darned good to me. These days, I'm mostly switching between KLH 6s (recapped), Marantz Imperial 6s (not recapped), and DCM TIme Windows (not recapped). I'm surprised by how good the Marantz Imperial 6s are, given that they didn't get much press "back in the day."
A copy of your original review is available on The Wayback Machine. Like PeteB above, I use it a lot to read pages after they disappear from their original website. Your review is at
Excited About KLH 22s
in KLH
Posted
If I were to buy a replacement woofer from someone else, I would want assurance that either the surrounds are as original (never been redoped) or that only the good stuff was used (RoyC's or vintage-ar). Too many people have used Permatex, PVA glue, and other crap to seal the surrounds. If the wrong stuff has been used, the woofer will have a higher Fs, changing the way it sounds.
You cannot tell by color. As others have noted, the original woofers sometimes had black surrounds. My pair of 20's have black surrounds and they were original.