AR 315HO sub amp specs???

[Guest Jimmy154]

I have a pair of AR 315HO sub amps. And I can't get any specs for them. I think they're 24 db/octive LP at 100Hz, but I don't know if that's true. And I don't know the type of slope used (Butterworth / Bessel / Linkwitz-Riley). Anyone know, anything?

Also I would like to find some 315HO subs to go with the amps. Although I have some Credence subs to go with the amps, same as Kicker series C solobaric 15's (S15C). Don't know if they're a good match, any opinions?

[Guest Nigel]

>I have a pair of AR 315HO sub amps. And I can't get any

>specs for them. I think they're 24 db/octive LP at 100Hz, but

>I don't know if that's true. And I don't know the type of

>slope used (Butterworth / Bessel / Linkwitz-Riley). Anyone

>know, anything?

>

>Also I would like to find some 315HO subs to go with the amps.

> Although I have some Credence subs to go with the amps, same

>as Kicker series C solobaric 15's (S15C). Don't know if

>they're a good match, any opinions?

The 315HO is a bit new for most on this forum, it is also a vented design. I am pretty sure that the 315HO was replaced by the HiRes AR1. The HiRes AR1 had 500W Sunfire amps, they have 36 dB/ octave crossovers.

[Guest Brian_D]

From the diyAudio website;

"The amp has a 24 or 36 db/slope fix at 100 Hz"

I don't have any idea how reliable that information is, it's basicly a forum like this one with data from every which place... this particular thread is from someone making a sub for his home theater. Here's the link

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-20190.html

Hope it helps. Good luck.

[Guest Jimmy154]

Thank you for your help guys.

Brian D, unfortunately the information on the website is very unreliable, since it is from me.

Nigel, I was almost positive that 315HO sub is in a sealed enclosure. And now that I've measured the amp, it seems even less likely that the 315HO's sub was in a vented enclosure. I am aware that the AR1 is the 315HO's replacement and that it has 36 db/octive x-overs. I think the 315HO had 24 db/octive slopes, but now I can't remember anymore.

My testing was somewhat inconclusive about the slope of these amps. If I had to guess I would say 36 db/octive. F3 is at about 125 Hz (I'm slightly more confident about this).

What is most important to me now is finding out what the nominal impedance of the sub is that this amp powered. 4ohm? 8ohm? Any ideas or guesses?

[Guest Brian_D]

Cripes.

Sorry about that. It's all I could find, the AR website has NO information and I don't think that particular model was cloned by the other AR siblings...

One thing I am fairly sure of is that I've never seen a home theater subwoofer with a single voice coil that was less than 8 ohms. Every HT sub I've seen that is 4 ohms is a DVC model that also drives sattelites (full-range class A/B amps, usualy)

That's including just about every SONY sub there is, a few HK ones and a couple of Yamaha's too.

Good luck with this project... I'm seeing lots of AR subwoofer amps on eBay lately, I'm thinking of picking a couple up for LFE's for my basement (or bassment, as the case may soon be!) Now if I can just find some 12" AR drivers for a decent price...

[Guest Nigel]

>amps on eBay lately, I'm thinking of picking a couple up for

>LFE's for my basement (or bassment, as the case may soon be!)

>Now if I can just find some 12" AR drivers for a decent

>price...

Hi Brian;

I have three AR5 Hi-Res amps, that I am planning on selling. The only issue is that they are 220-240V, originally intended for Europe. I was going use them to power some HiRes AR7 speakers in a HT that we sold when I was transferred last summer. (I am glad to be rid of the HiRes speakers...)

Let me know if you are interested...

Nigel

nfmisso@mchsi.com

now in MN

[Guest Jimmy154]

Brian D,

I bought these amps on ebay about a year ago. The place that sells them is located near me in NH. A lot of the AR amps on ebay now are like Nigel's 240 VAC.

I was just kidding about the reliability of my information. The measurements I did on the amp are backed up by some one else with the same amp that also did his own measurements. The 315HO amps were $130 a pair (I went to the store in NH to pick them up and they were at least $200 for two in the store), but they do have a big peak at 25 Hz, that goes down relative to the other frequencies as you turn the gain up.

So . . . (I don't know why you think I'm building a HT sub) they might sound good with a sub that is designed to be used in small sealed enclosure, like the 315HO sub. I got a pair of Credence 15" subs they sell under "car audio" on ebay all the time. They're like the old Kickers model S15C (solobaric, round ones). They were $120 for the pair. I used to have a Kicker (almost the same model) in my car that I got for $195 (just one) and I thought that was cheap. Also the boost can almost certainly be bypassed, but I think I will stick with it. It suits my subs well, I'm hoping.

I called AR they said that all their AR1 subwoofers are 4 ohm and actually almost all of their subwoofers. So as soon as I have time and figure out some details I'm good to go . . . I think.

[Guest Jimmy154]

Oh yeah, I forgot what's an "LFE?"

[Guest Nigel]

>Oh yeah, I forgot what's an "LFE?"

Low Frequency Enhancement - aka sub or sub woofer

[Guest Brian_D]

LFE stands for Low Frequency Effect. It's the .1 output of most surround technologies out there right now; 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 you know, DDS, SDDS, DTS...

I don't mean to knock subwoofers, but in my experience, the LFE channel of a HT system is pretty much all that most subwoofers are good for. (Short of shaking the crap out of a Honda Civic)

I've not heard a single sub/sattelite system that pleases my ear the way a simple full-range cabinet does. Of course very few speakers have the linearity and extension of the high-end vertical series (9, 90, etc.) but it's like most companies don't even try anymore.

I don't care what anyone says, this idea of bass frequencies being "non directional" is bull. The very best home theaters I've heard have the subs up front, where the rest of the sound is. (and no sub/sattelite nonsense either) Ever sit in one of those so called SQ competetion vehicles at sound-offs? It's painfully obvious in every one I've ever judged that the subs are in the trunk/hatch/behind the seats/wherever there's room.

It always amazes me that there have been so many efforts to make the origin of upper frequencies come from a common point, yet very few efforts to include the lower end in that "point source" ideology. There is the MTM setup, coupled mid/tweet, even point-source drivers with the tweeter INSIDE the midrange. Short of P.A. cabinets with large drivers and a horn sticking out of the middle (done entirely out of neccesity for space, and usualy don't sound very good) I've not seen anything like that for woofers. Has anyone else? I would love to see one.

OK, sorry, I'll get off my soapbox for now. I know everyone has their preferences... I guess I was just expressing mine! Please feel free to do so yourself; I can take it.

[Guest Bret]

>I know everyone has their preferences... I guess I was just expressing mine!<

Well, I've never met an opinion I didn't have, or my wife didn't have, in which case it became mine whether I liked it or not, or at least it became what mine should have been if I'd had the right one.

So, until I'm told otherwise, here's my take on subwoofers - They are spectacular and wonderful if they are crossed-over VERY VERY low and they aren't louder than everything else.

Sensurround is like fireworks. Very cool for a while, but I wouldn't want to watch them for hours.

Bret

[Guest Brian_D]

They are spectacular and wonderful if they are crossed-over VERY VERY low and they aren't louder than everything else

Ditto. That's the problem with most OEM's, they cross over a subwoofer at 100hz and expect it to sound good. I was kind of amused when I purchased an inexpensive home theater speaker setup for my bedroom. (a nice little TEAC number... very slick and sounds "ok") The subwoofer is a true LFE, no sattelites attached but it has a switch on the back that changes the crossover (12db slope) from 100hz to 200hz! The funny thing is that the (ported) box is tuned to about 90hz!

Anyway, it's just one more reason I've steered away from new "technology" in speaker building/setup. I like my tweeters pointed at me, not the wall or ceiling. I like a single full-range cabinet as opposed to several small ones. And as long as I have the space, the 9's will always be my mains!

[Guest Nigel]

>And as long as I have the space, the 9's will always be my mains!

Mine too, and AR91.5 for the rear channels - we currently only have room for a 5 channel system (no poiont one).

[Guest Brian_D]

The rear surround channels are not full-range, and are compressed on every decoding scheme except DTS, so if you're listening to dolby digital or SDDS most of the time, you can disconnect the woofers on the 90's, and run the LFE channel to those. (You'll basicaly be bi-amping the speakers, but sending the woofers an entirely different signal)

There's your .1! (or .4 in this case... BOOM)

-edit

OOps.. just saw that you have 91's, not 90's... sorry. Are the 91's biampable? If so, you can still pull this off!

[Guest Jimmy154]

What I don't like about home audio that it's geared towards old people and what I don't like about car audio is that it's geared towards young people.

So I don't know if the prelevelent theory of "subwoofer are only good if not louder than anything else" or "subwoofers only sound good when crossed over very low" is true. As much as I know that when I read "bandpass boxes are the bomb" or "Kickers rule" in a car audio forum, that is true.

To me a subwoofer and some satilites sound much better than a pair of fullrange ported speakers (I think, must ammit I have less experience with home audio than everyone here I'm assuming). I hate big boxes though.

[Guest Brian_D]

To me a subwoofer and some satilites sound much better than a pair of fullrange ported speakers

I think "ported" is the key word here. The only real advantage to ported designs that I can see is their efficiency. In order to get a ported box to have the extension (and linearity) of a sealed acoustic susspension design of equal output, it is usualy a giant box! (not to mention the gaping hole to contend with)

I cried when my friend (who sold me my 9's) bought a pair of Infinity Q towers to replace them. He stacked them on top of a Yamaha subwoofer and called me over to hear them. He was extatic, of course and I bit my tounge when I wanted to tell him what I really thought. Oh well, to each his own I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I DJ'd for years, and no one in their right mind would try to fill a auditorium (or dance hall for that matter) with sealed boxes. We used Cerwin Vega Earthquakes (4 of them) each with their own bridged 1000 watt Crown amp. They were bandpass design and were absurd when we really cranked them. Like I said, extremely efficient. I loved them; for DJ'ing!

I think the lesson I learned early on in my listening is that "bigger isn't always better" holds true sometimes. I rave about my 17's and it's true their cabinets are bigger than, oh say ANY sattelite speaker out there, but they're not huge by any means. Good extension down past 35hz and their audible down to 25. And that's just an 8". The key there is that it's a sealed box.

Well, I wish you well on your subwoofer quest. I hope your system is everything you dreamed of when completed. And Oh yeah, any time someone says that something is "tha bomb" you should probably imediately question the sincerity and accuracy of the statement!