AR speaker finish

[Guest Brian_D]

As you probably already know, many of the early AR speakers were walnut veneer, finished in something that AR calls "oil." For instance, the AR 17's are "oiled walnut veneer."

For an amateur woodworker like myself, this term is irritatingly vague. Of course it's oil, but what specifically is it?

Does anyone have litterature or information specifying exactly how the veneer was treated? A brand name would be best, but if there isn't one available, a simple "color name" would do. For instance: "classic walnut" or "yellow oak" or whatever.

The 9's and the 17's and early 18's all have the same finish, and all match nicely, but I know for a fact that the 17 and 9 litterature say nothing specific. I wonder if there's an old finish room guy around these days. He could say!

By the way, if you're into this website, you're obviously WAY into classic speakers. If you havn't already, go to the AR UK site on this website http://www.arsenal.net/speakers/ar/AR-UK/AR-UK.htm and download all three pictures zip files. Trust me, the wait is worth it especially if you have 9's or 90's. Many of the pictures are of the assembly line and testing facilities for those speakers. There's one very interesting one with an AR9 on it's side about 25 feet in the air on a pole. It's pretty wacky. I'll probably decorate my listening room with them if they print out alright!

[Guest Brian_D]

Holy Cow! Check this out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...6&category=3284

I'm going to call this guy and put the screws to him until I find out what I want to know! (I might even mention this website!)

[Guest]

The eBay item is a great service for the amateur, but should not be confused with the actual materials used in the original AR finishing process.

About 25 years ago, I owned two pairs of AR-3a systems, which I used as stacked stereo pairs on AR-11 metal stands. An ad in the local newspaper's classified section offered a single AR-1 (identical in size to the 3a cabinets, with AR's older, cast-frame 12" woofer) for $25, which I snapped right up. I intended to place the single AR-1 cabinet at floor level, between the two pairs of stacked 3a's, and run a mono, LF signal to it. The only real problem was with the AR-1's walnut cabinet - it looked like crap!

At the time, it was possible (old-timers will fondly recall) to actually speak to an AR engineer or experienced service person on the phone, and a quick call put me in touch with someone who had finishing knowledge. AR was using a multi-step process that included a primer, filler, oil-based stain, and sealer; utilizing products from a manufacturer who did NOT offer their stuff at retail. After explaining my situation, the AR guy did some research, and was able to provide the name & phone number of a man who was the local distributor for this manufacturer's professional products - he also got the distrubutor's OK to meet with me, and take my tiny, tiny order! A week later, enough product to refinish 50 speakers arrived via UPS, and after much sanding and rubbing, I wound up with an EXACT, perfect match for the 3a cabinets - it was right on the money! A new 3a grille and "AR" badge completed the set-up, and the result was outstanding.

Now the bad news...I cannot remember the name of that manufacturer. All I can absolutely state is that it was not anyone that I'd EVER heard of before or since, and I've done a lot of furniture refinishing in the interim.

When I refinished my AR-9 systems a few years back, I used a perfect 3a cabinet for my reference, and pretty closely replicated the color with a combination of Minwax "walnut", "special walnut", and "golden oak" oil stains. Once I had the color right, I made enough mixture for both speakers - the result was very, very close to the 3a's "oiled walnut" color. I also chose to use a poly seal (3 finely-sprayed coats, rubbed with "0000" steel wool in between, and finally with paper towels for baby-bottom smoothness) instead of an oil sealer...fading is almost completely prevented, and water stains are not an issue.

[tysontom]

>As you probably already know, many of the early AR speakers

>were walnut veneer, finished in something that AR calls "oil."

>For instance, the AR 17's are "oiled walnut veneer."

>

>For an amateur woodworker like myself, this term is

>irritatingly vague. Of course it's oil, but what specifically

>is it?

>

AR used American Walnut solid stock (moldings) and both round- and quarter-cut American Walnut veneer for its speakers, in both clear-lacquer and oiled-finish. The oil treatment was originally the traditional boiled-linseed oil, hand-rubbed and sanded with 600-grit sandpaper between coats, which were allowed to dry after wiping for about 4-to-8 hours between coats. After the oil treatment of around three coats, the finish was allowed to dry and then either sanded with 600-grit or pumice and waxed lightly. AR had two oil finishes that come to mind, Walnut and Teak. AR, incidentally, never used lemon oil or Tung oil (the latter is a shellac-based finish, and tends to get too glossy). Later, I think AR went to Watco Danish Oil Finish. The most important thing to remember -- and AR warned of this always -- is to properly dispose of rags that are used with any of the mineral oils.

--Tom Tyson

[Guest bubbas_buddy]

WOW!!! Actual good useful information. Wish I had got a dose of it with my AR11 post.

Larry is a good guy (the E-Bay seller). Can't vouch for the stain kit though, haven't used it. As mentioned previously, boiled linseed oil works well. Good luck with your project.

[Guest Brian_D]

Hey, here's the reply I got from the eBay guy:

Brian:

This kit will give you a finish exactly like that on the original AR speakers. I have refinished many AR speakers including the AR-3a and AR9. The kit will easily do a pair of AR-3a. I also have beautiful cloth very close to what AR used on the AR-3a and AR-2ax for $35 (does a pair of AR-3a).

Good luck.

I'm familiar with the web site you mentioned but right now I have all the business I can handle as I do a lot or AR restorations and repairs on order, particularly the AR Electronics

Sounds great! I think I'll try it out!

[Guest ironman54]

It may be a good idea here to explain why rags that have been used with, say the Watco product (or any Linseed oil ?) should be disposed of properly:

These used rags have been linked to many a fire - a suspected source of spontaneous combustion. If you can't take them directly to the dump, don't leave them around in a garbage can, hanging in the garage

etc. I think it was Reggie Jackson who lost millions of dollars in rare automobiles when his garage (huge) went up in an inferno.If I remember correctly, it was linked to Watco Danish on a rag. Hope this is helpful to somebody/anybody.I do remember, when the story broke, going right out to my garage and putting the rags I had in a lidded metal container filled with water which I then set out in the middle of my driveway until I could get to the local dump in the morning.

Hey, I had 2 little kids in the house (it's why my ex- nicknamed me "Mr.Safety") !!

I'm going by a faded memory here so some of the names maybe incorrect

but I believe I'm right. Feel free to add/correct ! Serious business though.

[johnieo]

>It may be a good idea here to explain why rags that have been

>used with, say the Watco product (or any Linseed oil ?) should

>be disposed of properly:

Linseed and some other oils autoxidize (slowly oxidize in the presence of air) releasing heat in the process. The worst scenario begins when a soaked rag is wadded into a ball. Because the rag is a good insulator, the heat has no where to go, so the temperature of the rag increases. It will first smoke, then burn with a flame, when the temperature exceeds the ignition temperature of the paper or rag. Fifty years ago when starting college, I watched a rag begin to smoke on our kitchen counter while taking a dinner break from polishing cabinets. That taught me he seriousness of the printed warning in a way I have never forgotten. From then on- in water, or spread out on the ground outside away from buildings.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi there

It's amazing how this topic started out as a simple refinshing project and how it's turned out to be a very serious and welcome safety warning to all.

Thank you very much for this very valuable feedback.

I hope this message will be broadcast by all readers to their friends and family and if they should be in a postion of safety at work or play as well.

Thank you very much again for this safety message.

Vern

>>It may be a good idea here to explain why rags that have

>been

>>used with, say the Watco product (or any Linseed oil ?)

>should

>>be disposed of properly:

>

>Linseed and some other oils autoxidize (slowly oxidize in the

>presence of air) releasing heat in the process. The worst

>scenario begins when a soaked rag is wadded into a ball.

>Because the rag is a good insulator, the heat has no where to

>go, so the temperature of the rag increases. It will first

>smoke, then burn with a flame, when the temperature exceeds

>the ignition temperature of the paper or rag. Fifty years ago

>when starting college, I watched a rag begin to smoke on our

>kitchen counter while taking a dinner break from polishing

>cabinets. That taught me he seriousness of the printed warning

>in a way I have never forgotten. From then on- in water, or

>spread out on the ground outside away from buildings.