AR TSW-410 refoam oddity

[Guest Kendalcio]

On the 8" woofer for each of these AR TSW 410 speakers (3-way), the fiberboard gasket had been glued first to the metal frame, and then the foam surround had been glued on top of this gasket. The gasket does fill in the entire lip of the frame, except for the screw holes, of course.

I am not experienced in these things but that reverses the order for installation of the gasket and surround in most of the reading and slidehows and videos regarding refoaming that I have come accross.

I bought the speakers as demos in 1992 for about $140 from a large home furnishings retailer in Albuquerque that also had a fair amount of low and mid-fi audio equipment. There was a tear in one of the grill cloths, which I figured was the main reason they were discounted.

Since the foam surrounds need to be refoamed, I have to decide if I want to simply redo the speakers as they were, or to "correct" the manufacturing "error" and glue the foam to the frame first, and then install the gasket on top of the foam surround edge as is typically done.

Obviously if I simply redo them as originally made, I would not have to pry up the gasket, simplifying things considerably (I can get the old foam and most of the glue off the gasket without damaging its surface).

If they sounded good that way before, maybe I should just stick with the program. To be honest, I have always liked the sound of these speakers IF they have been placed 29 inches off the floor and about 2 feet from the back wall, and they have been dependable for 15 years.

On the other hand, am I missing out on something sonically?

These 8" woofers have an AR stamp on the bottom of the round magnet housing, so I would think they came from manufacturing this way. They are alledged to be "carbon loaded polypropylene" though I have no idea what that refers to, possibly the cone.

The 6.5" midranges, which will also need refoaming soon, do not have a gasket of any kind.

Thanks in advance for your feedback. This is my first refoam project.

K.

[Carlspeak]

Give us a picture of these 8 inch woofers with the surround glued to the top of the gasket. I've never seen that before. If an error was indeed made by someone, the spider should be distended upward a bit and not sitting completely parallel to the plane of the woofer flange. Is that the case? If so, remove the gasket, do the refoam and glue the new surround directly to the frame (as is normally done). Then glue on new gaskets.

If the spider isn't distended, then you've got one weird woofer there.

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Guest matty g]

Hi -

Yes carbon loaded polypropelene is refering to the woofer (and I think the mid) cones. TSW stands for Titanium (refering to the ferrofluid cooled tweeter) Solid Wood (refering to the tops and bottoms of the cabinets), and they sound great when the surrounds are properly functioning. Do the mids at the same time as the woofers, and stop using them until you have the surrounds done. Damage can result from using them with deteriorated surrounds. None of this helps you with your question, of course, but I went through the same thing with my 610's. I wound up taking them to a local repair shop (Millersound in Landsdale, P.A.) because I didn't know enough back then to tackle the job. Hopefully someone with more experience will jump in and answer your first question, but they are worth restoring for sure.

Matt

[Guest Kendalcio]

Thanks for the suggestions, Carl and Matt.

The spider does not look distended. The foam is completely off one of the woofers, but still on and completely intact on the other (though it does feel delicate and I will be replacing it), and comparing the spiders they look like they are in the same position.

At this time I don't have access to a camera phone or digital camera so I won't be able to provide a picture.

The magnets on the woofers are 3" diameter and 1" thick, and have:

AR

1210072-1A

691TF

inked on the bottom just in case that helps someone.

I was thinking that once the foam was off there would be much more play than there is, but the cone seems to "seek" being centered and has a sturdy feel to it for such a flimsy "looking" little woofer.

edit: sorry I put this in the wrong place, thought it would default to the bottom

K

[Guest 1080i]

I have a pair of AR TSW-510 speakers, and while it isn't the same model as the 410, chances are the woofers are constructed the same. I'm going to guess that it is constructed like mine. There is not a gasket on the front of the woofer, as you suggest, and if I understand what you are asking.

The construction of your woofer is not an error. Do not pry up the "gasket." The fiber "gasket" isn't a gasket. It is sort of a spacer to raise the surround mounting position by the thickness of the fiber ring (about 3/16"). It is supposed to be glued to the metal basket, as your's is (and mine is). The foam surround is glued to the top (outside) of the fiber ring. Just put on the new surrounds like the old ones were: glue the surround to the back side of the cone, and the surround outer edge to the top of the fiber ring. Many of the AR 12" and other size woofers have these fiber rings too. Some of them are thick cardboard, not hard fiber.

When you install the woofer in the cabinet again, do put a foam tape gasket under the basket, between the metal and the cabinet, to seal it.

Then when it is all installed again, there is a black rubber trim piece that fits over the metal basket rim. It is STILL not a gasket(!), but only serves to dress up the speakers and make the edge black. It is held in place with some sticky glue and a poor friction fit.

I hope that helps.

[Carlspeak]

After reading 1080's post, it's become clear to me the 'gasket' you refer to is the brown ring that's about 1/4 inch wide and a bit over 1/8 inch thick and circles the ID of the top lip of the frame. These are very common on numerous early AR woofers. I suspect it was put there to correct for a mismatch in the height between the edge of the cone and the top of the woofer flange so the foam surround will sit properly on both the cone's edge and the frame for gluing. It is a bit unusual but needed so things match up correctly during assembly.

.

I kind of suspected that earlier, which is why I asked for a photo.

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Guest Kendalcio]

You guys are fantastic.

I will leave in the spacer and glue the outer edge of the surround to it like on the original. Thanks 1080. Excellent description.

Apparently, on the 510's 10" woofer, AR glued the foam surround to the back of the cone. On my 410's 8" woofer, AR glued the foam surround to the top of the cone, so I will replicate that (unless advised otherwise).

The woofers had a thin band of glue on the bottom of the basket as the seal with the cabinet. I will look around for a tape foam gasket to use (I guess at a hardware store. If you have something more specific in mind, please advise).

The spacer (that I thought was a misplaced gasket) is 5/8" wide, slightly less than 2/16" thick and is charcoal gray. Sorry about the lack of a picture, Carl, I know that makes it difficult. It sure looked like a gasket to my untrained eye.

Thanks again,

K