AR-12 - What to do with a pair.

[Guest theweids@cox.net]

I bought a pair of AR-12's in the late 70's. They've been in storage since the late 80's. I got them out last week and they sound just great, but the foam around the 10" speaker cone has decomposed and is flaking off - there was nothing salvageable from the black face cover. The wood case is in fine condition

So would anyone want to buy these? How much might they be worth? Where should I try to sell them? Should I try to repair/replace the flaking foam ring?

[Guest Bret]

>So would anyone want to buy these?<

Probably. Interest comes and goes. eBay is the usual method.

>How much might they be worth?<

I know you know this, and I'm not being flippant: They are worth as much as someone who wants to buy them is willing to pay, including freight. If they were "flagship" models they would probably bring a higher proportion of their original price than 12s will. I have not seen enough 12s sell anywhere to be able to even give you a range.

Sometimes a pair of extraordinary speakers sells for almost nothing on eBay only to have another identical (or worse) pair bring one heckuva premium two weeks later. You just can't ever tell. You might get $20, you might get $200 if someone needs them to round-out a collection (doubtful). Flagship models cost about the same to ship, cost about the same to repair, and have that whole "braggin' rights" thing going for them. I would not expect them to bring anything close to what a pair of AR-11s or 3a's might sell for.

>Where should I try to sell them?<

If you don't see interest here in a few days, I would go to eBay. Since the cabinets are large and heavy, it would help to know where you are, city and state. The same person who would not be willing to pay the freight on those might be willing to drive over and pick them up.

Of prime interest is going to be how the drivers OTHER than the woofers are. Pictures always help. The grills are no longer available (as of eight weeks ago, the last time I checked) and this is going to diminish their popular value and desirability. The condition (and originality) of the midrange is going to be VERY important as to whether these are worth the trouble to restore.

>Should I try to repair/replace the flaking foam ring?>

Stop playing them IMMEDIATELY in this condition. The foam rings are very replaceable. Provided you haven't done damage to the drivers by playing them with the foam missing, this is a relatively easy fix. Anyone interested in buying them would almost certainly prefer to do this repair themselves.

If you want to keep them, in my opinion, it is VERY important that you do NOT buy "replacement" woofers. I've made that mistake and it is a mistake. The old ones, fixed, are the better (and far cheaper) bet.

My advice is to repair them only if you intend to use them. Repeating myself: anyone who might want them would probably prefer to do the repair themselves.

Lastly, if you are just trying to clean the closet and really only want them out of your hair, I'm sure someone here would take them and fix them and give them away rather than see them go to the dumpster (where so many end-up because nobody would take the time or trouble to fix them).

[Carlspeak]

Bret offers some very good advice on the alternatives you should consider.

If you're leaning toward getting them restored, perhaps I can help. I recently restored a pair of AR12's for a customer who drove 140 miles to deliver them to me in North Central Conn.

The woofers were refoamed, unfixable mids (rotted foam surrounds also) were replaced, crossover upgraded (see attached) and new, black foam grills provided.

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Steve F]

Some historical perspective on the AR-12:

They were introduced in 1976, part of the 'second wave' of ADD (Advanced Development Division) introductions, following the 1975 intros of the 11, 10Pi and MST/1.

The 2 1/4" cone midrange was this speaker's technical tour-de-force, as it was a spiderless design, with its voice coil suspended in and centered by magnetic fluid. This was one of the industry's very first applications of ferro-fluid, and AR made, quite understandably, a big deal out of this.

The ADD 10-inchers also used the same cabinet volume as the 12-inch models, which lowered their resonance just a bit compared to the previous generation of 10-inch models. The result was a -3dB point for the 12 of 44 Hz, quite respectable for a 10" AS speaker.

The 12 took over the marketing slot relative to the 11/10Pi of both the 2ax and the 5 relative to the 3a. The 12 was somewhat more refined than the 2ax, but still was not a 10" version of the 11, whereas the 5 was, essentially, a 10" version of the 3a.

All-in-all, the 12 was an extremely good sounding loudspeaker. A pair in good operating condition would give a fine account of itself, even by today's standards.

Steve F.

[Carlspeak]

The spiderless midranges is what we call today a 'closed back speaker'. Apparently, AR didn't want to use an open back mid and have to construct a small volume for it to operate in in order to protect it from the woofer's backwave.

With regard to ferrofluid cooling, it's needed in a closed back speaker simply because the inner workings (e.g. the voice coil) is totally incased with no means to cool it. I believe this technology, although probably a first for small cone speakers, was not new but was already developed by AR for their newly designed dome tweeters - also a closed back speaker.

Parts are not available to refoam this small, 5" mid. I have identified a closed back mid to replace the AR mid and it works just fine.

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[loudbuff]

To clarify Carl's post above. The AR-12 midrange is in fact an open back speaker with a snap-on plastic cup on the back providing a closed cavity for the driver to operate in. There is a bit of some fluffy material in the cup for damping, but not much. I'll post some pictures later.

I have successfully refoamed several of these.

I have always had a soft-spot for this particular driver, thinking it's one of the best cone midranges ever.

Anders

[Carlspeak]

You're right Anders. I forgot that plastic cup. Mine had foam in it.

Where did you get the surrounds?

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Pete B]

I'm curious as to how the AR-48s fits into the AR product timeline, would anyone like to comment?

Was the 200040-0 woofer used in any earlier models?

It has a cone midrange with a normal spider.

I have written some about it here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/dcbo...ing_type=search

[bikenut]

To clarify Carl's post above. The AR-12 midrange is in fact an open back speaker with a snap-on plastic cup on the back providing a closed cavity for the driver to operate in. There is a bit of some fluffy material in the cup for damping, but not much. I'll post some pictures later.

I have successfully refoamed several of these.

I have always had a soft-spot for this particular driver, thinking it's one of the best cone midranges ever.

Anders

Hello Anders:

I noticed you refomed the mids on the AR 12. I need to do the same thing.

Were you able to purchase the foam surrounds somewhere?

Thanks, Bill