Pro sound vs. Home audio hardware

[Guest David in MA]

I've been shopping for a preamp/power amp and I notice that there are some amps labled "Pro sound" amps while others are for "home audio" or "audiophile". What is the difference between these two classes of amps?

[Guest daveshel]

>I've been shopping for a preamp/power amp and I notice that

>there are some amps labled "Pro sound" amps while

>others are for "home audio" or

>"audiophile". What is the difference between these

>two classes of amps?

Not classes, just marketspeak.

[soundminded]

Professional audio engineers are hard nosed practical people who are rarely if ever taken in by slick advertising normally targeted at far less knowledgeable (although they won't admit it and may not even know it) consumers.

Characteristics which a manufacturer's product must exhibit are among the following;

Ruggedness and reliability; Professional equipment must above all else be able to stand up to regular abuse under harsh conditions and continue to perform flawlessly. Many will have fans and therefore make too much noise for audiophiles. This is not a problem for pros because they are often installed in a separate room from the speakers or recording microphones.

Competitive price; engineers are accountable to their clients, have budgets to stay within, and often have to justify any extra expense. If several amplifiers perform similarly, the one with the lowest cost is often the one selected. Professionals don't get taken in by outrageous claims of superiority over what actually at most amounts to very subtle differences or expensive supposedly clever designs.

State of the art performance; professionals expect non existant distortion, flat frequency response, inaudible noise, plenty of power, and virtually all of them today are solid state. They all also have balanced inputs, virtually an industry standard.

Service; if and when trouble is encountered, service must be available rapidly and conveniently. Extended no fault warrantees are also usually expected, another reason why they must be nearly bulletproof.

Professional versions of consumer products are sometimes similar or nearly identical but they are not advertised in the same way. When Bryston bids against Crown, nonsense about how Crown amplifiers sound bright or brittle and not musical go out the window, nobody takes that kind of talk seriously. Contract award is often based solely on price. Tube amplifiers, SETs, Class A, are virtually eliminated.

The sole exception to these general rules is when the client is an audiophile who knows better than the engineer. All the engineer can do then is give the customer what he wants, cross his fingers, and pray that it works out to his satisfaction. He knows there is no point arguing.

[Guest David in MA]

Soundminded,

Thanks for your always thoughtful comments.

>Many will have

>fans and therefore make too much noise for audiophiles. This

>is not a problem for pros because they are often installed in

>a separate room from the speakers or recording microphones.

This is something I was wondering about. Will the fan noise be too loud for home use? Does the amp have to be in another room?

[rrcrain]

I've had the privelage of using a Crown amp as a loaner while my amp was out for repairs. Based upon that brief experience, I would have to say yes, the fan is to loud for soft music.

[tysontom]

>Professional audio engineers are hard nosed practical people

>who are rarely if ever taken in by slick advertising normally

>targeted at far less knowledgeable (although they won't admit

>it and may not even know it) consumers.

>

>Characteristics which a manufacturer's product must exhibit

>are among the following;

>

>Ruggedness and reliability; Professional equipment must above

>all else be able to stand up to regular abuse under harsh

>conditions and continue to perform flawlessly. Many will have

>fans and therefore make too much noise for audiophiles. This

>is not a problem for pros because they are often installed in

>a separate room from the speakers or recording microphones.

>

>Competitive price; engineers are accountable to their clients,

>have budgets to stay within, and often have to justify any

>extra expense. If several amplifiers perform similarly, the

>one with the lowest cost is often the one selected.

>Professionals don't get taken in by outrageous claims of

>superiority over what actually at most amounts to very subtle

>differences or expensive supposedly clever designs.

>

>State of the art performance; professionals expect non

>existant distortion, flat frequency response, inaudible noise,

>plenty of power, and virtually all of them today are solid

>state. They all also have balanced inputs, virtually an

>industry standard.

>

>Service; if and when trouble is encountered, service must be

>available rapidly and conveniently. Extended no fault

>warrantees are also usually expected, another reason why they

>must be nearly bulletproof.

>

>Professional versions of consumer products are sometimes

>similar or nearly identical but they are not advertised in the

>same way. When Bryston bids against Crown, nonsense about how

>Crown amplifiers sound bright or brittle and not musical go

>out the window, nobody takes that kind of talk seriously.

>Contract award is often based solely on price. Tube

>amplifiers, SETs, Class A, are virtually eliminated.

>

>The sole exception to these general rules is when the client

>is an audiophile who knows better than the engineer. All the

>engineer can do then is give the customer what he wants, cross

>his fingers, and pray that it works out to his satisfaction.

>He knows there is no point arguing.

In my opinion, this is a very accurate description of pro-sound equipment. This is no-nonsense equipment designed to run day-in and day-out under the stress of mis-matched outputs, overload and other harsh conditions that would otherwise probably damage consumer equipment. I have a Crown Studio Reference I amplifier, a professional design which came with a 3-year, no-fault warranty that covers everything except damage covered by insurance or damage caused by intentional abuse (for example, attempting to weld pieces of steel with the amplifier). Incidentally, it also has a fan, but it an on-damand, proportional-speed device that is very quiet until the amp is driven hard. Once the load reduces, the fan slows down to a whisper or completely stops. The amp also does not sound bright or harsh; it does not have a personality of its own.

--Tom Tyson

[soundminded]

The Crown Reference 1 and its more powerful version the Reference 2 may be the best power amplifiers ever offered for either professional or consumer use. It would seem they fulfill every conceivable requirement of an audio power amplifier to perfection. It is hard to see how their performance could be bettered and I am certain they could easily take on any and all comers regardless of design philosophy or price and trounce most of them leaving only a handful in their league. It would therefore be interesting to hear a debate between the designers of this amplifier and that of the current line of Mark Levinson amplifiers given that the two companies are under the same corporate umbrella of Harman International. I am only guessing but given their corporate histories and their relatively recent acquisition by Harman (within the last few years) I'd assume they still have different design and production teams which have not yet been merged. (any thoughts or info on that?) I'd also assume that the Mark Levinson amplifiers especially the top of the line 436 is considerably more expensive than either of the Crown units. I wonder how they would justify them. If they are separate and different, I'll bet it would be one hot debate.

[Guest bluetomgold]

Let's get one thing straight. There's no such thing as a perfect amplifier, and all amplifiers sound different. I'm a huge HiFi enthusiast (I hesitate at calling myself an audiophile) and I deal in classic audio equipment. I have also worked as a recording engineer, so I can see both sides of the debate.

Although the comments made here on professional amplifiers are largely true, that's not to say that you need professional features in a domestic product.

Most studio amps offer high output power that you might not need at home. Solid state amplifiers generally produce less distortion towards their maximum output, so although it makes sense to have current in reserve for music with a wide dynamic range, you don't need hundreds of watts for realistic domestic reproduction - and a low-powered design will often sound better at normal listening levels.

You don't neccessarily need bomb-proof output protection either. And output protection can ONLY make an amp sound worse. Balanced connections are worthwhile if you are running long cables, but the complicated circuitry required neccesitates extra cost and ultimately may degrade rather than improve the sound.

I've owned dozens of amps in my time, both professional and domestic designs, solid state and tube, high and low powered, class A and AB. I've had fun with all of them, and they've all sounded different, and given varying results with different speakers. A studio amp should (not all do) meet certain standards which guarantee accurate reproduction, but it's up to you to decide whether you enjoy their sound. Flat frequency response and low distortion are desirable, but they do not guarantee enjoyable sound. Such abstract qualities as "transparency" and "musicality" DO exist, you just can't measure them!

A good example is this: Crown amps are commonly used in American studios, whereas traditionally a British engineer would use a Quad. Both amps are designed to be technically perfect - as Quad would say, a "straight wire with gain". Yet these amps have a distinctly different character. Listen and you'll see exactly what I mean.

There lies the answer. Listening to different amps with your speakers is the only way to find the right amp for you. And inevitably your choice of equipment will involve some compromise. If musical reproduction were an exact science, surely we'd all have the same equipment!

[Guest nathanso]

Great post!

[soundminded]

We see the world through different eyes. To me an audio amplifier is strictly an electrical device. It is designed to meet electrical performance standards and to be judged, questions of reliability and value aside, by those standards alone. It is possible to hypothesize an ideal amplifier and how it would perform and to measure real amplifiers to determine to what degree and how they deviate from that performance in real world operation, whether it is common practice to do so or not. It is also possible to determine whether or not those deviations would alter the performance of loudspeakers to what is or is not within the limits of what is inaudible to human beings. Whether a particular amplifer in a particular set of circumstances of source and load sounds better or worse than another to one or more particular sets of ears is IMO completely irrelavent. That it performs its electrical function correctly is all that matters to me.

The notion that there are aspects of the performance of audio amplifiers which cannot be measured is IMO illogical. For those who make such claims whether as manufacturers or sellers of this equipment, the onus of proof is on them. On the other hand, whether the state of the art or common practice of measurement is adequate to completely characterize them is an entirely different matter and those who claim that it isn't also have the burden of proof to demonstrate what salient characteristics are missing and how to measure them. But they have a steep uphill road. They are fighting many decades of engineers' and scientists' work which developed, accepted, and used the standards we have today and centuries of well proven mathematical theory which backs it up.

As for me, I will continue to buy amplifiers on measured performance, reputation for reliability, and value alone. BTW, the Crown Reference I is the more powerful of the two amplifiers I cited.

[tysontom]

>As for me, I will continue to buy amplifiers on measured

>performance, reputation for reliability, and value alone.

>BTW, the Crown Reference I is the more powerful of the two

>amplifiers I cited.

I agree with that statement with regard to amplifiers. For me it comes down to power-output capability, low distortion, stability, and reliability. The Crown Ref I is certainly an excellent amplifier in that respect, but there are probably many other amps just as good. I don't dispute that some feel that there may be subtle audible differences between amplifiers of equal power and distortion, but I don't believe that any controlled, double-blind listening tests have confirmed those differences.

If there is anything that is not so great about the Crown Ref I is the need for a 30-amp, 120 VAC circuit, or the use of 240 Volt wiring. The power cord for the 120 VAC version is 10ga 3-wire cord, about the size of one's thumb. This requires a dedicated AC line to properly operate the amplifier, but this is typical of most high-power pro gear.

--Tom Tyson

[soundminded]

>If there is anything that is not so great about the Crown Ref

>I is the need for a 30-amp, 120 VAC circuit, or the use of 240

>Volt wiring. The power cord for the 120 VAC version is 10ga

>3-wire cord, about the size of one's thumb. This requires a

>dedicated AC line to properly operate the amplifier, but this

>is typical of most high-power pro gear.

This should hardly come as a surprise. With a rated maximum total continuous power output capability in excess of 2300 watts and the efficiency of amplifiers of this class being well under 100% (well actually under 50%) the possibility of using a 15 or even 20 amp 120 volt single phase power circuit is precluded because the designers have come up against the age old problem that you just can't get more power out of it than you put into it. But there are promises of better things to come. Undaunted by principles of modern science and engineering, there is at least one person in this world, Ken Amis who feels he is just on the verge of inventing the mythical perpetual motion machine.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

And when he does, you won't need to plug your amplifier into a wall at all, it will be able to power itself indefinitely.

Equally undaunted by principles of modern science and engineering, are some audiophiles and those who cater to their mental madness. They feel they are just on the verge of stamping out the last residual traces of the mythical beast of audible distortion...no matter what extremes they must go to or what the cost.

I wonder who will achieve their goal first.

[Guest denmarkdrivers]

The best pro gear amp ive heard was a crest amp hooked to some big EV's

Sounded great but required an EQ ( craftsmaan)

Nice audiophile turntable helped.

Better suited for a big room, like a bar sized room.

Was impressive for a commercial system with large drivers but i thought it was better suited for a bar then a home.

The EV's had horns, dident sound as acurate, EQ smoothed them out some, sounded very impressive considering they were horns.

I still say traditional tweeters are far more acurate.

Still i was impressed, best commercial system ive heard in a home.