Andre_Db66
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Posts posted by Andre_Db66
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I still have to open up the improved speakers. I am curious to see what i will find. Driver types xo glue....
Too busy at the moment. Day after tomorrow i hooe to have the coils for the HiVi tweets...
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Within the xo in series i have read that it does matter which way you implement the coil. Being the leadin on the outside of the coil or rather from the center outward. Parallel i can imagine different rule applies. But lacking foundation in education with the matter i have only fora and people like yourself to learn from. I wasnt aware it didnt matter and only popped the q to be sure it isnt installed wrong.
I only vaguely remember stuff like cork screw rule... and was thinking with regard to what i read and induction being applied wrong it would render my coil useless...
Im pretty much an intuitive kinda guy so pick up things taught along the way.
Thank you for all your kind help.
The first speaker is now playing with older style tweeter, no coil and basically resembles the frankenstein sonically at the moment. Tonegem mid and woofer in both and same era tweeter and xo.
I have ordered an LCR multimeter so i can mesasure the coil for the newer tweeter. Also handy for the caps.
Cheers
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Thank you Roy...
The filter of speaker #1 has been restored. I am making the coils .16 but have a question. Undocumented territory and my knowledge leave me in the dark how to hook uo the .16 coil. Correct would be from inside to out but what is in this case plus and minus. Plus being inside of the coil, is this simply how it is placed in the scheme? So according with schematic...
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Roy, you are right, 35v is much too low as the Quad 303 almost already exceeds this. I shall buy this immediately. Let alone 260 watt yamaha 😁
About the resistors, there are 20 pieces in parallel with tweter and 20 with mid so yes that would make a 12,5R for each unit. Thank you for the effect explanation. As the limited drivers are used, i am aware there was an xo change to accomodate the Lpads, but can i simply place the pots?
I happened to have some 1mm ,39 coils which i could unwind to ,16. I gather the cap is necessary, the coil could possibly be avoided with an original pot.
The mid could be used as is with the original pot and adjust to taste, right?
Unwinding 2,88 is possible or adding 1,0 to a number 7 and unwinding the 1,0 i think is best so to keep AR parts original, no? I presume unwinding will make the woofer louder?
By all means, i am no expert and just an audio nutcase enthusiast of 57 years of age so any advice or help is greatly appreciated...
Cheers
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Woofer swap with rubber surround Tonegem and made the tweeter black again.
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Thank you for your elaborate answer. I am just curious what the 20 * 300R parallel with the tweeter is for. (Similar addition for the mid speaker) I have not seen any AR so far with this nor any schematic.
As for the sound, i find them very open and a bit harsh sounding. Like the pots are fully open. I tend to prefer the middle setting with most speakers ie LST.
3A Impr has a similar voicing signature as this ar3a and i cannot alter but a/b switch them, but not necessarily the AR6. Those are more balanced when the pot is opened up. Ar6 Sounds a bit muffled with the pot in the middle. The Frankenstein have the tweeter pot opened up but mid toned down and sound very closed in dirext comparison to my newly acquired 3a. So putting back the pots i will certainly do as i do not care for biwire and especially not for biamping. Bin there done that...
Today i tried a Yamaha PC2602 on the 3a and pretty loud and they seem to push the ar3 effortlessly not breaking a sweat. No clipping. The Yamaha M2 i pushed into clipping to my surprise the other day. PC2602 is 2 * 400@4R btw. If it becomes too much it has a fan as backup. Actually next test will be the 2602 on the LST as that speaker is even harder to drive. Not sure yet which eventually will be used for the ar3a. Plenty of choice so takes time to match them perfectly, amp and speakers.
Cheers
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Discovered an addition in the xo which i hadnt noticed.
There are 20 resistors placed parallel to the tweeter and also to the mid. Due to glue i am having trouble lifting the tweeter but the mid is a gold magnet version very much same as the woofer, so indeed Tonegem.
Effectively if i am right about the color code it is the equivalent of 12.5R.
How much does that attenuate? Or is there none? The mid and high seem full throttle. Yet a/b comparison with LST in position 3 is very little difference. Perhaps a little more sharp edged...
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A quick look inside reveals the gold basket tonegem woofer. Ar3a xo with 1 deviation. Instead of 150uF 133uF has been applied. They are in fact ar3a speakers, the serial numbers are correct and the official import handler of Holland at the time provided all the upgrade drivers. So without looking i think it is correct to assume the drivers are all Tonegem. The bi-amp schematics found elsewhere in the forum has been used here. The bridge outside really divides the xo in 2 parts and it is safe to connect any 2 amps with the bridges removed.
Cherry on the cake is that i have obtained the original 4 pots with the sale. As the pots are out the speakers simply blast out full on the mid/tweeters unattenuated.
A bid had been made of 600 but as i was very early in negotiating i was lucky to take this find home for 400 including the pots. Someone say that the drivers alone were worth 400? 😁
Anyway, i am going to put in the Tonegem woofer with rubber surrounds and listen. I will revert the biamping with the two original pots later
. Placing them on my original stands which i received yesterday by mail for 125. They will never depart my home again. The Frankensteins i am not yet certain about, but apart from the badge i do know now they come very close to each other in terms of drivers and xo.
I am only wondering if i should add the remainder caps to obtain the value of 150uF or is the advice with these to woofers to leave as is...? The other are hooked up to new 150uF btw. If the latter then it means the 150uF of the Frankenstein should be altered too in case i decise to stack them at one point.
Cheers
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Why o why....?
😪
AR went down the same road of less quality and faster production techniques, cutting samecorners as i have seen in my days with Sansui. Vinyl vineer, glue, materials etc...
How sad.
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I have been able to get my hands on a set of original ar3a stands. I want to make some oak stands for the lst/ lst2 combo.
Here is a preview what that will look like...
I will follow the contours of the lst2 with solid oak, so it has to be cut twice at 45⁰ angle and glued together. Ofcourse the back will remain open as i dont want a resonating box underneath them.
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Friend of mine has original unhassled ar11, i have the improved unhassled and sunday possibly the limited, if your deduction is correct, Roy. Maybe it will give more credibility to which schematic is more likely to be correct. I have still not yet found the time to open my improved.
Cheers
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Am i correct in saying that either the tweeter or mid is out of phase in the AR11 and AR3a improved? I always get lost in reading xo schematics...
I am also correct in quoting someone in another forum that a dutch man was very much involved in the development of the 3a improved version and that it was never sold in the USA?
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This is a set of AR6 i bought in Germany and i refoamed them myself. The case was empty and i added fiber glass. Thanks to RoyC i now know that i have to open them up and can add or subtract weight as he was kind enough to inform me of the needed volume/weight for this model. Also an Audyn 10uF cap was added.
The set plays on a refurbished and modified Quad 303 and 33. The boards have been emptied and/or replaced by me and only the best modern equivalents low tolerance parts are used like metal film resistors, transistors, mkp caps etc...
The mod is one that takes out the 4 ohm restriction which was inserted into the amp originally to not fry the Quad 57 electrostatic speakers as they had no overload protection and the impedance drop could ask too much current from the amp at 4 ohm frying the treble panels. It now delivers all the current it can give at 4 ohm and some may know 303 stands for 30 volts @ 3A. This was with 8 ohm btw, so for 4 ohm it will now give much
more punch. All discrete stages... This combo sounds excellent! Very different to non-discrete hifi or tubes. Mellow i would call it.
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This is one of my UK build, improved, bought from 1st owner who bought them jn 1976 in the Netherlands. Refoamed with rubber surrounds in 2003. Still all good to go. Playing nicely on a Bryston pre and main 19 inch rack set of 2 x 100 watt @ 4 ohms.
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I have a gentlemens agreement with the seller. I am to pick them up sunday and as the woofers have to be refoamed i will open them up. Lets see what the inside reveals....
What i also noticed btw was the residue of putty around the woofer, which so far i have only had on my alnico ar6 speakers...
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8 hours ago, Gaston said:
Maybe you are right, the pictures provided are pretty bad, so definitive conclusion from someone with better eye.
However, who knows what's happening inside (the crossover).
edit: this thread maybe can help you (it seems they are really Tonegen, not original as I assumed):
You are right Gaston, this is what i based my deduction on together with the drivers in my own speakers. The silver edition i have in my LST, the gold in a set of 3a impr labeled speakers, with the wires cut from the front and everything connected from the back... the edge and dustcap give it away in my view.
I only wondered about the cabinet and serial #, i have uk impr cabinets from 76, they are different style. How would that be consistent with limited version sold more than 14 years later in a usa cabinet with low sn? (I read (blurry)Cambridge at the bottom)
I have offered the guy i would like to take them. At least i can refoam (perhaps recap) and sell again or sell another set.
Thanks guys
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Ah... i thought the woofer to be tonegem. As it resembles one golden cage edition i have in a set of improved badge labeled 3a's.
The asking price was 400, and bidding was at 375 about an hour ago.
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I came across these on dutch craigslist.
It seems to me there is something not correct. My findings are the woofers are not original. The tweeters dont seem to be either. No pot on the back so who knows what has been done inside. I even doubt the correctness of the mid drivers.
Maybe i am way off in my assumption.
Any ideas?
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Thank you yet again for the very useful information.
This one is near finish. Only waiting for the xo parts. Wonderful bass...
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Is there any info on how many oz of glasswool need to be placed in the lst2 cabinet?
And the AR6?
And the LST?
I bought a big roll of yello glasswool and just finished placing 20 oz in the first set of AR3a. It was filled with cotton and changed the sound signature significantly.
So...
Any difference in AR3a and the improved version with regard to this?
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The next lot...
It would seem there is even more than 3 different kinds
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Ok so i was right in the assumption. I ordered 3mm cork to make the rings. The 2x woofers had been (butchered) refoamed and my deduction was that the chassis ring had been removed. Some people, when refurbishing do more damage than good unfortunately...
Thank you Roy
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OK so i can place 6 or 9 and simply listen to what sounds best. Adding 6uFwill amount to 4uF, 9uF will amount to 5,143uF and removing 12uF and simply 6uF is also possible.
About the elevated edge below the foam of the woofer and spider, what is the purpose and if the spider is elevated should i replace it on the chassis below the foam also?
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First 3 tweets removed so far...
Anyone?
Cheers y'all
acoustic research ar3a for sale any comments...
in Acoustic Research
Posted
Ok got it...
The wait is for the right tools and parts now...