Andre_Db66

Those charts are nice... thanks a lot. I had some quirky readings on my inductor coils. Eventually i discovered that 3 x #7 wound on a little bit bigger iron core did not give me 37mH but 17 smthn. I added in series another 2 coils making a sum of approximately 21.5mH. Still having a long rolloff i first chose the bass speaker which was loudest and nicest. I had the jbl 2226H@8R E140@8R and the one i decided on K145@4R. Then i found out that according to the xo calculator my inductor related to a 60hz Linkwitz xo (4R woofer), second order but it was missing a 330uF cap. I didnt have anything at hand so the cheapest way to try without immediately paying top dollar for bipolar, i decided on 2 NOS 680uF polar elcos in series, minus attached to each other creating a bipolar cap. It works...! I have now a strongly diminished mid/high so at least 12db linkwitz rolloff and it suits my purpose. All i have to do is give it a listening session as soon as i have properly connected both channels. Little pressed for time but sunday i will do this for sure. If it is satisfying i shall most likely order Jantzen or Mundorf 330uF BP caps. I am still going to build a subwoofer from the spare 2ax chassis/case i have but not quite sure what xo point i should use...

I have a question for the diehards here... Topic title was a system first used back in 1930. Can somebody tell me the difference between the AR system, claiming to be the inventor at the same time? I am a little confused as it seems that across the pond they were way ahead... Andre

I created an inductor of almost 37mH with 3 #7 ar inductors and iron core. It works but gives a lot of high bass/ low mid. The roll off is very long. What is responsible for shorter rolloff, thicker gauge wire or larger iron core or both?

I have a 2ax woofer laying around and a corresponding cabinet. If i were to make that into say a supporting sub to a set of ar6, i would only have to increase the value of the original coil, right? (Dreaming of 5.1 ar6 surround 🙃)

This is true in some ar6. I think if i recall correct it ws RaRa who brought this up. Anyway i read about this here on CSP and tried it for myself. I have however 3 pair of ar6 and 2 are alnico woofers and they also differ in xo. This is however apparantly consistent with either the alnico or ferrite version of the woofer. I tried the inductorless experiment with ferrite magnet and was not impressed. Others have said it makes a very good sounding ar6. I wonder what i am missing here... Doesnt butterworth make a rather more sudden roll off? If i were to try and make these coils of 20mH, what air gap should i be using approximately?

What type of xo are they considered to be? How is it that there is a factory ar6 without coil? That seems an extreme deviation from AR standards...

https://www.hupse.eu/radio/speakers/AD5200.htm The ad1255/m7 is the succsessor to the ad5200. Check out the specs... Norelco in US It is with good reason these speakers are sought after and very expensive. Your pictures exhibit a pair on ebay, broken bolts, and sold as parts for the incredible amount of plus 600$. This is no joke, these speakers are amazing... The broken bolts is a flaw (after many years, they are from 1969) and should be replaced with stainless steel ones with expertise.

The 20mH inductor placed in series with the JBL on the plus side? Perhaps simply a 100 watt lpad between the JBL and Philips to adjust the level opposing each other? To understand where all this is coming from. I have an open baffle project with 3 drivers(also peerless tweeters) involved and until recently an active crossover 3 way and 3 amps. I am intrigued by the apparantly simple crossover of the AR speakers in terms of parts used, i have 4 available pots and plenty of insulated inductor wire gauge 17 to possibly create a similar crossover like the AR speaker has with 1 amp and a passive crossover. Btw i think the information on the Philips is incorrect somehow, afaik it goes up to 18k but probably has strong rolloff early on. So it doesnt necessarily need a tweeter, especially to my 57 y old ears that hear very little above 12k, yet it is noticeable and pleasant to add them from 12k up. Super tweeters are not required here 😁 I still would like to know at which freq the ar3a cuts off the low end with only 2.85mH? Is it a second order filter and which type?

Thank you for taking time to answer. First, the high pass will go to fullrange philips broadband 12 inch ad1255 so no harm done if there is all the freq range. But... hypothetically using a 20mH in series on the plus side of the 15 inch JBL woofer after which it is branched off to the philips with a 250uF in series on the plus would give me a 1st order butterworth xo @ approximately 60hz with 6db on the woofer rolloff and 12db on the philips @55? What freq does the ar3a cut off after the 2.85mH inductor? The woofer sounds like a subwoofer so i am curious about that. The values of caps and coil are not that high there... ( perhaps this is what i didnt like in the inductorless ar6 experiment, too much mid overlap/presence )

I have a question for anyone who understands the matter and is willing to take the time to explain something about the AR crossover, probably usefull for general understanding of crossovers to me or others. It came to my attention there are a few different versions af the AR6 crossover, one without inductor coil before the woofer. Basically these coils in series with the woofer i have seen in all my AR speakers and i have tried out changing this in one of my sets of AR6 with dissatisfaction. I cant put my finger on it why i disliked the sound. My question is actually simple, what does this inductor do, if basically a bipolar cap is enough to create high pass signal? Bose did that in a daughter brand that i had, simple cap, resistor and warning lights for overload, comprising the entire XO. If i were to lets say want to create a low pass @60hz butterworth and high pass to broadband, so above 60hz is unfiltered, how would i go about doing this? Andre

Today i received my order from Alixpress (yeah i know, i got sucked into that commercial blackhole... 🙄) I ordered some voicecoils 8R to fix a set of 2ax speakers i bought for 180€. Very nice enclosures, decent grills and originally tweeters with inner connections which are now in my ar5. I had 2 tweeters with broken litze wires and nice faceplates so i decided to be a daredevil for a mere 16€ and ordered 6 of these babies. I was sceptical and apparantly it hadnt been done as Roy informed me he had no idea what had to be altered in the XO. To the best of my skills and knowledge i have finished the first and listening now. It actually sounds very pleasant. I am not yet able to crank it up a little because the woofers need foam. Playing softly they are sublime right out of the box. No changes to XO. Hopefully this is useful to someone out there with despair as the tweeters can now be revived quite easily. Disputeable wether it sounds better but to me it does. Sorry for the purists out there. I discovered that it takes a lot of money to recover the tweets through other channels. Blind tests can perhaps only emphasize my pov. The tiredness of an old tweeter is gone and it sparkles again. Andre

Ok agreed... but my room is very big. Dont know in feet but it is 100m² and ceiling is 3.8m. Taking into consideration that there is gain from placement, at 10 meters away sideways they have the same deep bass as ar3a. So acknowledging i give the ar5 advantage i find that irrelevant because the lower frequencies are perceived that way. Mid bass is not what i experience being bumped. The ar3a in the same position sound awful. A friend of mine acknowledges this with regard to his ar11. He says like me his speakers need to be lifted from the floor, because the bass sounds horrible. So where all my speakers are positioned is only best according to room acoustics vs performance not taste. This makes the result more objective. Let the speakers perform best according to the room restrictions. If i place the ar5 up, at 10m the bass is still there, trust me and i find the ar5 shared first place.... i could perfectly rid the ar3a and be content with this sound. However... i do like it loud and nothing beats the stacked ar3a. Next week i will have that hooked up to a pair of yamaha pc2602. 4 x 400 watt@4R. Uhhh... perhaps the JBL 15 project with 2 x 30watt Amcron and 1200 watt 18 inch sub is a nice match or beats the previous but also sounds very different. Dre

The AR3a woofer is simply in an undersized cabinet... the only conclusion i can make so far. The 10 inch is placed in a similar sized cabinet to the AR3a and the bass is actually better. Perhaps subjective?

Very happy to inform everyone interested, about a set of AR5 i found in Holland for 200€. Unfortunately the tweeters had the wires cut while they seemd unopened. I had to break free the grills. I have 2 tweeters in the LST2 that are inside wired. They can hopefully be exchanged with these. I have already gone ahead and removed them along with the foam rotted woofers. The refoamed ones from the LST2 are now playing along with the internal wired tweeters. I cannot say other than that they are amazing. They are absolutely in the same league as the AR3a, possibly even better. I am not keen to admit but they make the AR3a seem boomy and bass heavy. As though the balance is better. Obviously both models are keepers and adding this to my increasingly extensive collection is platinum. There are also some AR MST for sale but it perhaps not as tempting as the AR5 or even AR6. I find them a kind of oddball, perhaps also because i am actually starting to lack space for setting them up properly. Andre

PS the buzz in the mids was replicated on the other speaker after changing signal wires at the power amp.

Heavily corroded fuse holders. Previous owner of my LST had shorted the fuse holder on 1 speaker and gave me the holders along with the sale. I realised these were in much better shape than above pair and this morning i replaced it in the faulty LST2. It seems planet dada is now playing good on both speakers and yes i fully agree that it is quite xtreme to play this kind of material on these beauties but given the renewed foam and excellent tonal balance it performs very well. For sake of the thread topic, i have to add that when the first cabinet was done with hivi tweets, the second was done with the current tweeters. A threesome of 8R AR. I did some hours of comparative listening and could not define a difference in left and right sonic display. Excellent tweeter and the 4,7uF with .05mH coil work top notch. Unfortunately i have now 6 new hivi tweeters in the cupboard. If anyone needs a set or perhaps all, i can make a very nice price. They were 30 a piece, but willing to go under a fair amount. 80 for all, obviously plus shipping. I have 6 Jantzen 0,05mH coils along the hivi btw... Also 3 2ax mids and 1 2ax woofer(needs recone) and 2 3a tweeters missing the voice coil. If anyone is interested let me know plz...

Highs balanced Mids balanced Lows troublesome on 1 cabinet. Balanced until one cone tends to drop out of the frame due to excessive excursion. Fuseholders - I found blank shiny contacts on the good speaker. The problematic one has dull not shiny corroded like contacts. Both fuses seem new to me.

Thank you.... So not my choice of program material or excessive leakage of the acoustic suspension. I sincerely hope you are right about it. I had them on craigslist but took them off CL after i let them play on my newly acquired krell power amp. (Loved the detailed sound on low volume) I had little time playing them as i was occupied with many other speakers. I recently bought 2 sets of advent 1 and refoamed a set of alnico ar6. Today was the first moment i could play and turn up the volume with the lst2. I had done so before on a yamaha pc2602 and noticed smthn. However untill today no time to adress the issue... tomorrow i will hopefully resolve it. Cheers everyone... Andre

Please explain with your reasoning how come 1 speaker can perform this type of material wonderfully tight and much louder than the other. The excursion is not only scary but on the brink of destruction. This is clearly not the notes played but a techical issue... i will deduct and eventually get to the bottom of this. Someone said in another thread of the srt monstrously loud, that is indeed a fact with this sansui power amp. Painful for the ears. I am not even close to these decibels with the lst2. It is the discrepancy between the speakers which i am discussing. Believe me, the lst2 can perform electronic music or any type for that matter perfectly well, but that is not the issue here...

Tomorrow i shall bypass the fuse and exchange the signal left/right. But this is the second amp/pre combo i tried. First was philips pre on krell power Next accuphase c222 on sansui 919 power. First suspect cab, no leaks substantial enough to allow for this extreme behaviour Second suspect woofer, exchanged them and same. Third suspect xo or fuse...

No turntable, so no subsonic issues. There is no talk of diminished output in one. That one is well balanced as i mentioned, if i use balance control it sounds wonderful and can go the extra mile in volume without excursion problems and the sound is very loud and well balanced. At that point the other is almost blowing the woofer to smithereens. The high and mids stay clean. It is only that 1 woofer behaving so...

If one reads carefully my comments on electro ic music by Yello hence Planet dada, it is obvious this is not the issue here, the other speaker could go louder when the faulty one's excursion limit is reached. They play insanely loud, the LST2. When foam edges are gone, the amount of air passing through the edges will quickly destroy the raiming foam all together when playing at these levels. Yes, this amount of leakage is how it appears to be when observing the fautly cab at work however the foam is new and done properly. The little difference in left and right cab presumably CANNOT amount to this kind of excursion behaviour. I would appreciate a comment on the XO questionaire because how is the buzz possible? Or what causes extra throughput of nrg to the bass unit, possibly lower frequencies than desireable? This is more my own conclusion but i cannot substantiate this and seek backup in theories in this matter.

Making my source signal mono at the pre amp, playing planet dada with very loud volume, 1 woofer tends to bottom out and one woofer is in control. It seems this is how it should be as i read lst2 can play very loud. The woofer of the other however seems to obtain much more energy from the same signal and is dangerously close to damaging. My initial thought would also go out to acoustic suspension problems. BUT, how can it be that when i use a tone gen the mids perform a fuzzy sound? This only on the culprit channel cab... the other has a nice near sub tone and is otherwise dead quiet. This is a paradox as it indicates a electrical issue. Perhaps you are right about the fuse. However i still cannot get my head around the amplification in bass behaviour. The woofer moves wildly with dada planet...

Checking the schematic and position of the switch, the woofer is hooked up without passing through the autoformer. #3 position (correct me if im wrong) It does however go through c1 which i believe to be 1000uF and a coil. This is #10 afaik. So recap... original electrolyte but no idea about the choke. Measured these and they appear to differ from 1 cab to other. 1000uF caps are not expensive so if it has anything to do with this issue could be renewed. I hate to do waste the money if it isnt necessary tho...

The switch works as it performs its task and doesnt crackle or anything. Fuses are original ones and i have no idea if they are as old as the cabinets. Though i fail to see what impact this could have anyway... The push test gives approximate results for both cabinets/woofers, no noticeable difference and slow recovery. Although i have seen slower in my refoamed ar6s, still left and right cab perform the same. I have all the original spragues in there and must say that using a peaktech LCR45 it gives different results on either cab. This is why i am suspecting an electrical fault somehow. As though the signal is not filtered before the woofer. Or xtra energy is routed to the woofer... idk