Mr. Weather

Great photos. Good thread. It looks like the bottom most piece is 3/4" MDF. Mine are lucky to have 1/4" left, maybe 3/8" at the thickest part. I have to wonder if this MDF piece can just be removed and replaced with a new one. Or is it better to fill and sand it? The answer might become more obvious when I get the thing disassembled and look at it more inside and out.

Thanks for the continued information. You mentioned the cirtular hole and base plate. What in the world is this design? It seems really unusual. This bottom plate seems thin. I'd love to know more about this part, what it's made from, why it's there, and what care must be taken with it especially if I'm going to be using epoxy resin in the area.

I tried Watco Danish oil and Odie's Oil on a new piece of walnut wood sanded to 320 grit. The other 2 spots on the test board are bare wood. Although the the photos show a slight difference this is due to lighting and the real world difference is not discernable. The Odie's gives a slightly waxy feel, and the Danish oil finish feels more like bare wood. One of the AR90s has a bare spot in the aftermarket black paint on top so I compared my test board to that. The test stains look very similar to the AR90. The apparent darker color of the Odie's is due to lighting. The biggest real world difference is the style of the grain. I think either finish would work well, but I am inclined to go with the Danish oil. Probably boiled linseed oil would work perfectly fine too. Also, one photo shows some flakes of black paint from the top of the speaker sitting in white latex paint remover. The black paint was not bothered by the paint remover, so I am inclined to think the offending black paint is oil based, not latex. Does it really matter? Not sure, but it is what it is.

That looks like it would stabilize the MDF pretty well. Did these speakers originally have feet?

Is the badge easily removable to see the whole badge from the side? My grill looks just like yours but without the metal pin in the hole, and no metal clip. I may have to wait for an actual set of badges and clips to appear rather than relying on a reproduction. In other news, I have been testing Danish oil and Odie's polish on different woods. I have some walnut wood pieces inbound to test those finishes on. However at this point I think Odie's is best used on some existing finishes as a wax. Sanded wood I think will be better served by Danish oil in thise case. Danish oil is a blend of an oil such as linseed, a varnish like polyeurethane, and a solvent like turpentine. It is thin and runny and soaks into the wood quickly and cures fast compred to pure polyeurethane. Still listening to the speakers and enjoying them for a while before disassembling them. I was able to peel a piece of paint off the top of one speaker and I could use that to test on a latex paint remover to see what kind of paint this is, however I think the sanding method is the best option here. Does anyone have any photos of the bottoms of the AR90s? Mine are fairly beat up down there, and I suspect I may need to glue on an oak panel to add durability and restore the slight amount of height that may have been lost, but I need to know what the bottoms are supposed to look like. This would let me attach some feet if they are supposed to have feet.

Does anyone have photos of an original AR90 badge showing the front and back? Im not sure how these are supposed to attach. The speaker grills have a 1/8" hole where it looks like the badge could be attached with a screw, however the badges on Ebay just have what looks like an adhesive patch on them. Those could work but I would need to make or buy a small mounting plate of some kind. So it would help to know what the originals looked like on the back side.

Good catch. In summary, the manual says the surfaces can be treated with "high grade paste wax" such as Butcher's wax or Staples Paste Wax, or the surface can be re-oiled with boiled linseed oil. Staples is still around today. I found a few products in the butcher's wax category but not the actual Butcher's brand unless we count the products from The BWC Company.

I used the vaccum cleaner trick to pop out the LMR dust caps. My son cut up an old Starbucks plastic cup and did some work with gaffers tape to cover the sharp plastic edge. I made an air bleed door on the side that held my finger over in case I needed to quickly release the suction. The cup ended up collapsing with vaccum at the rim so we had to modify and tape on the cup's original reinforcing lip/rim. We started with a weaker vacuum and that didn't do anything. So I pulled out the shop vac. Long story shory, this worked. Both dust caps popped out 85%. Then I went back without the cup, using the hose directly up to the dust cap, to pull out a few last indentations. That got the dust caps 95% back to normal.

The restored finish looks good. I'm pretty well versed on refinishing wood but this is a delicate project so I've been doing some reading. I see you used Watco Danish Oil which is a popular choice and I would not rule that out. I ran across something called Odie's Oil which is billed as a solvent-free oil and wax that seems to give good results for many people. So I picked up a can of that to exerpiment with. I have no walnut wood to experiement on but I can scrape up some birch and oak and see how it performs. However, I think big hurdle is how to mask the front and rear of the cabinets to avoid getting paint stripper on the factory black finish. Sanding as mentioned, could be an alternative, and that would give me much better control of paint removal.

Fortuntely, my foam inserts are intact. They seem perhaps *slightly* stiff, but are generally still foamy and intact. One has an indent on each side. Inspection with a flashlight does confirm that the side veneer does cover the whole side, even the factory black. I can see the veneer grain texture under the black paint. So that's correct compared to yours. I like the idea of having the whole side as natural wood with no paint. That could be an option because it may be impossible to strip *only* the paint that was applied by a previous owner without removing the factor black around the woofers. AR may have switched badges over the years. I found one photo showing "AR90" badges. Maybe they ran out of these and used generic "AR" badges on some units. I have a roll of "speaker gasketing" tape, 3/8" wide by about 1/8" thick. I used it on my Goodman EE4410s after removing the factory black sealant/goo/tar that had turned hard and brittle. So that seems light the right thing for these ARs.

1. Does anyone have the size measurements for the AR90 badge? Mine are missing. I can find photos of these, but no measurements. 2. Also, at least one of the woofers has no seal or gasket between it and the cabinet. These were probably lost when the surrounds were replaced. The owners manual says these are not reusable. Can these be purcahsed new? What's the best route here? No seal? Adhesive foam tape? other?

I think speakers can be like anything else for many people: you live with some object or piece of equipment for a long time and you may lose an appreciation for it. I think that's human nature. Plus, people value different things to different degrees. As I've gotten older I've realized that we don't keep most of our posessions forever; they tend to pass from person to person. This is especially true with higher value things, or things deemed special. Also, art, audio, and many other things are subject to trends which fall in and out of style over the decades. So that all adds up to support the seller who had not used the speakers for 20 years. It was just time for them to be passed to the next person to appreciate them anew. Your gain, as well as mine. You make a good point. Is it not possible to produce these 'inset foams' with new materials from today? Foam speaker gasket tape? Or would such an attempt fall short in a critical way? On a $100 set of speakers I can see where a workaround could be enacted, but for the AR9, maybe having the original foam intact is desirable. Certaunly I could mask off the two higher range drivers as you mention. I can build or cut wood as needed. In order to avoid damaging the original factory black paint, I may need to mask most it off anyhow, and the drivers could be sealed with their own protection under this. Quality work usually involkves a lot of preparation work, so I may end up spending real time and money masking things where appropriate. I wish I had a spare damaged AR9 to use as a test case, but that seems unlikely. I'm very sure that my AR9s are factory black on the fronts, backs, and side bottoms around the side woofers. The top, and 2/3 of the sides are walnut veneer. One thing I don't know is how is the transition between the veneer and factory black handled? Is the factory black applied directly to the underlying particle board/MDF, and there is a slight seam between the black and walnut surfaces? Or is the factory black painted over the veneer? It seems like everything would be veneer, including the factory black areas. Yes, our cat is quite unique. He's dog-like in many ways. Quite a companion.

Thanks! Yes I will carefully disassemble them and document the connections along the way. It will be good to get a look at the interior as well. Thanks. Yes, the original finish of these is walnut on the top and 2/3 of the sides. The fronts and rear are factory black. One hurdle for me will be to remove the paint from the walnut without damaging the original black areas . The added black was so poorly applied that it slops over onto the original black in some areas. I'll have to do some reading on stripping and restoring wood veneer and see what products are workable. I'm thinking a gentle chemical stripper but even those are offered in a variety of formulations. I've had some time today to listen to them and wow! I am impressed. I never thought I'd be saying this, but I'm hearing details in music that I either never heard before, or never consciously realized before. Sounds that were part of a background of musical clutter are now distinct. These also give a fantastic stereo image. I am not deeply experienced in high quality audio gear but these have made a great impression. It will be hard to go back to anything else. This really sets a new standard for me. Now I want to dig out my old CDs and vinyl and experience some classic albums on these 90s. Early in life I never had the money to buy great audio equiment. Then when I had money it went to car audio and home theater, but always within certain price limits. Now I'm finally ready to dive into better quality 2 channel audio, but within the price limits of older or used technology. The prospect of being able to bring these speakers back to closer to original condition is a bonus, because I love restoring old things.

Good question. After. I took everyones' suggertions and did lot of searching online for specific models in my area with no great results. At that point I realized it was a matter of time, money, or quick satisfaction: pick 2. Not wanting to wait for a qualified set to appear locally, and not waiting to drop big money for shipping unseen speakers, I remembered this local shop had the grungy AR90's a couple of months ago. Of course I had already made the realization that good speakers were going to cost me. I was looking at a nice looking, unmolested local pair of AR-2a's for around $500. The guidance here was enough to push me to this (more modern) AR series. I arrived at the local shop, gave them another look to assess the physical damage, listened to them, and made the decision right there. Yes there's always risk in buying used stuff but that's OK. Should be a fun project.

I pulled the trigger on a local AR90 pair. They sound great with an even response across the spectrum and a proper low end. Unfortuantely these suffer from a sloppy black paint job that I hope to remove. The woofers look to have new surrounds. The foam around the tweeters differs slightly. The front woofer dust caps are pushed in and I will try to correct that with tape. One of the negative binding posts is slightly loose. Removing the black paint may take some time. I have to work carefully to avoid damaging things further. I do not know the backstory on these. They were sitting at a local electronics parts, resale and junk store that carries a variety of oddball stuff. The shop buys used electronics and related things often, so you never know what will show up . The last few years they've been loading up on 70's to 90's audio gear. These ARs showed up around October 2022 and sat there. When I finally decided to spend some money on a reputable pair of speakers, I rembered these and was pleased to find they were still there. The shop wanted $600 and accepted $500. I have not opened them up yet because I want to enjoy the sound for a while. Ultimately my goal is to get them looking original and fix any other problems along the way. I welcome your thoughts and comments.

Thank you everyone fore the suggestions. Graet information. I am not opposed to DIY. I do enjoy restoring things and making use of things that are otherwise discarded. I can solder and fabricate in both metal and wood. I have a garage full of tools and materials. I'll add these suggestions to my list. It looks like the trick will be to find these locally or see what appears online with a reasonable price.

Yes, fair enough. If this topic doesn't work here, I'll post there. Thanks.

I was in the middle of my regular evening bike ride and spotted a pair of speakers out for trash pickup. I drove back to get a closer look at them and in the dark decided to take them home for further inspection. Long story short, this is a pair of Goodmans EE-4410 speakers, labeled as "A Design Product of Elite/Goodmans of England". These probably represent a fairly low brow, low end of the market at the time and lack the features of a better quality speaker but they have some interesting points, both good and bad. First, the bad: While Goodmans seems to have started as a reputable English company, they clearly outsourced these. It's not clear where they were made or who made them. This pair is mismatched. The tweeters are placed differently even though they both have the same grills and fabric. The "INSPECTED" stamps on the back are different. The instalaltion of the tweeters is really sloppy, with black adhesive goo originally slopped all over them, as shown in the tweeter photo below. The tweeters were installed rotated to different positions. The cabinets had a single 1" thick layer of yellow fiberglass insulation inside. The particle board and veneer has some staining and damage in some places. The capacitors on one unit had been replaced but with the wrong values compared to the other speaker. The 'crossovers' are only capacitors, with no inductors or other components or controls. The tweeter screws are differnt sizes between the 2 units. The good: The date stamp on one grill shows 1970 which is exactly what they look like. All of the drivers were 100% intact and had good ohm readings. The woofer surrounds are accordion type, not rubber, so they did not fall apart. The woofer dust caps are somehow not damaged. The model number stickers are totally intact. One of the paper cone tweeters does have a couple of small holes in it, but the backs of the tweeters are entirely sealed, entirely metal across the back. The work: I gently cleaned the veneer and have been rubbing in a furniture polish made from bees wax, lemon oil, and mineral oil. I have used XXXX steel wool a couple of times. The wood looks beautiful in spite of some of the damage on the corner and other staining. I removed all the drivers, replaced the capacitors with new 2.2 and 4 uF ones (each of the two tweeters per cabinet uses a different value capacitor), sanded the front driver mounting board to remove the black adhesive drips and 50 years of grime. I removed the rear wire terminals, removed all the dried black goo from them, and used epoxy to glue the terminal plate back in place. I sanded and cleaned the rear driver mounting surfaces to remove the black adhesive and used foam tape to make an air tight seal. I sanded the screws and painted them black. The grills were originally stapled on, so I removed all those staples and stapled on 4 velcro pads and hot glued velcro to the back sizes of the grills. I reinstalled the tweeters so they're not rotated. I re-soldered all connections. I replaced the fiberglass with polyfill, managing to get 1 pound in each cabinet which was tight. Finally, I had some spare cedar so I made a set of angled stands because I love a good woodworking project. The sound: I can't give these a proper listen because I'm waiting on a new amplifier, but with a cheap amplifier I am impressed with the sound. I will be able to compre these to something of a known good quality, but that will have to wait. They produce some real bass and good highs, but I am not able to judge the overall sound with an accurate, critical ear yet. The company: I had never heard of Goodmans, and I don't know if these were sold in the US or if these moved here with someone. Goodmans started in England in 1931 making speakers and after WWI was making earphones and also speakers by the 1950's. By the 70's the company had different owners over the years but by 1973 was making 95,000 speakers a week. In 1985 the 60th anniverserary was reached, and Thorne EMI was still the owner at the time. I don't know what happend to them after that.

I am posting this in the AR forum as it gets a lot of traffic. I was about to pull the trigger on a good looking pair of local AR-2a's when it occured to me that maybe the money would be better spent on a newer set of speakers. While I would love being the owner and caretaker of a good set of vintage speakers that can provide great quality, maybe I don't need to go back to the 1960's or 70's. Maybe I should get something newer, with drivers made from more modern and durable materials. Here are some requirements: From the 80's to 2000's Suitable for music from a 50 watt amplifier $600 price ballpark "Tower" size, or AR-2 size ("golden ratio" shape, around 2 feet tall), or even large bookshelf sized like the AR-4. Basic shape and technology, passive crossover, not bi-amped, ideally sealed cabinet design, minimal cosmetic bling. Not made in China Generally reputable make and model in terms of sound quality and reviews I am open to various brands, but I would prefer something made before the brand was sold to some holding company. I don't know how tall of an order that is.