Tim D

Hey Ra.Ra, How did you get the black color on the front baffles to look so nice? Tim D

Well, the grills came and they have the engraved badges. Yeah! The badges are in pretty rough shape. Only time will tell what is needed to refurb those badges. Also was able to obtain a trio of original tweeters from an AK member. Yeah! I haven't ordered pots or caps yet as I haven't opened them up yet to determine what's needed.

Well then I have two sets of the old pots. I'll have to see if I can salvage them all with that info. Thanks!

So the pitting wasn't a problem with the restored pots? Interesting. I have two of them from refurbing my daughters units. I also have the red plastic post types in my latest set. Maybe I can refurb the pots instead of going with the Lpads this time.

Just picked up a set of Acoustic Research AR4x's and they have aftermarket tweeters. I want to return them to stock. I need two, but will take one if that is all you have.

Wish I had the time. Still working from home and busy as heck. I have the Fisher amp in the queue ahead of it too. Anyway, once I get into it I'll have to determine if the pots are salvageable or not.

Well, it took 2 years, but I finally found a pair for myself! Got a decent deal on the goodwill site, but they are missing one grill/badge and both tweeters have obviously been replaced with one of the phenolic ring tweeter (PRT) types. For the grill, I have managed to find an older set of two grills w/badges and those have been ordered (not yet arrived). It was one more grill than I needed, but having extra is fine. The badge that came with the speakers has the logo printed on top of the badge in black paint and it is not the engraved version with red paint on my daughters set. The serial numbers are not too far apart, but not nearly consecutive. The veneer is decent but there are the usual corner dings and light scratching. They appear in better condition than my usual catch. The cabinets will be an easy refurb. The sheets on the back are not great but not terrible either. It came with the same mounting hardware that was also on my daughters set but positioned differently. I have a Fisher KX-200 amp in the queue right now getting a total overhaul, but when that's done I'll do a full refurb on these AR-4X's. I hope to find two original tweeters and have a line on one that is almost $50 with shipping, but if anyone could point me to information on how well the PRT's work on these I'd appreciate it. If I hear that the phenolics can sound really good I might just keep them for now. Also, is there a difference between the PRT's from different suppliers that are out there? Do I need to pull mine out and see which ones I have? Here are some pics.

Thanks ra.ra for the kind words. I will most definitely follow-up with any news, but the speakers are basically done now. All that is left is to give them away and mate them with the right equipment. I enjoyed doing these so much, now I need to find a pair for myself. If only I could get another deal like that!

Hi Kent, In the rush I'll probably initially give her a modern HK 3390 receiver and a somewhat modern BSR 1200XL computerized fully automatic linear tracking TT. That's just to get her by until I can get her a proper vintage setup. These newer units both work reliably and I don't have anything vintage that is ready to go at the moment. In the queue that I could give her once done are: Receivers: (Seriously thinking about the Realistic below though. The vintage is 1972 and I've tried it and it sounds really good, but needs some work._ the AR-17 doesn't have Loudness so I don't think it will sound good with the AR's at low level even if I can get it working its' fullest.) - Kenwood TK-66 (This one is currently DOA. Just tried it power it up yesterday for the first time. Lights, but no sound. Selector control is frozen. I didn't dig deeper.) - Heathkit AR-13A (Working, but will need a full recap and cleaning. The volume is about half of what I'd expect and it doesn't have "Loudness" which I personally prefer. I actually have two of these. Both have walnut cases. Beautiful units to look at with separate AM and FM dials side-by-side. Just wish they had loudness.) - Heathkit AR-17 (Needs a complete recap. Don't remember if it works. Probably a little too lightweight. I think this is about 10wpc. I actually have two of these.) - NAD 7020 (Needs a cleaning, recap, and bass control replaced. These have a gazzilion electrolytics in them too. The FM is drifting. I'm hoping the recap will fix that.) (This unit would pair really well with the AR's, but I am thinking it isn't "vintage" enough.) - Knight KU45A Tube Receiver (This is a basket case, but powers on and gives some sound.) (Not sure she's ready for the responsibilities of having a tube unit - even if it was ready to go (which it is definitely not.) - Realistic STA-120B (Very dirty and controls need total cleaning. Needs a full recap. It has a walnut case though. I just picked this up a few days ago for $20 and plugged it in yesterday. If I can get the controls all cleaned and working and do the recap this would be a dynamite driver for the AR's. I think it's rated at 80wpc which is a bit much, but the AR's sounded good with the short time I had it hooked up.) Turntables: (I'm thinking to give her one of the Dual 1226's.) - Dual 1009 - I've got two in the queue that need a full restoration. - Elac Miracord Model 46 (Realistic badged) - Just picked this up from the same guy that had the AR-4X speakers for $25. It is complete with 33 changer spindle, but needs a complete cleaning, lube and refurb. This might become my daily driver over the Dual's. - Dual 1226 - I've got two now. One I'm using that needs the plinth fixed. The other needs a complete refurb with cleaning, lube, steurpimple, etc. (Thinking to give her the one I am currently using and swap out one of the plinths for the unit in my queue and maybe swap out the cartridge. Hate to give her my only working changer, but she's family.) There are others in the queue such as a couple of tube Fishers and a Dynaco ST-70, but they're going to stay at home until she (and/or her brother) inherits them in the far future. I've got some low rent Technics separates and a low power Superscope amp from the late 80's that I was going to "Goodwill" or garage sale. The superscope has a weak channel and I just don't think its worth the effort. I've also got two Realistic STA-795's. One is partly DOA the other is in transit. I buy these cheap and they make good test units at about 40wpc when they are working. They usually go for next to nothing. In fact I gave one to my son last year to drive the KLH 17's I gave him and his wife for Christmas after a similar full restoration. I don't think this is a complete list, but its' a start of what I've got in the queue.... BTW

Just some follow-up notes for others.... These are nice speakers - especially for their small size. I wouldn't be disappointed if they were my only speakers - but they are not. These are well worth restoring and the cabinets and veneer are as good or better than most other speakers of that vintage. I was able to clean up most of the stains on the grill cloths and brighten them up using 50-50 mix of plain bleach and water with a spray bottle. Just be mindful that the cloth will shrink. Too much shrinkage and the cloth will start coming apart. I kept the original grill cloths even though they weren't perfect. Just trying to keep them original to the greatest extent possible. I did not have to put on velcro or other attachment. They were a tight fit, so I just pressed them in. No need to take them off again unless there is a future problem. Don't be afraid to replace the old pots with the Lpads from PE. I was hesitant, but I'm glad others were able to convince me to change them out. While I could clean them up and get them partially working, they were still too gritty and had some scratchiness remaining. Just not worth the hassle. Be mindful of the connections on the new Lpads and test to make sure they are wired correctly. Mine initially were working backwards. An easy fix, but if you paying attention it will be less (but minor) re-work than I had. Here is the parts information: Speaker L-Pad Attenuator 15W Mono 3/8" Shaft 8 Ohm Part # 260-248 A big note here. I didn't have the 25 ohm resistors on hand which was part of the Lpad change-out diagram, so I left them out based on others testimonies. They work great without the resistor! They are probably a little brighter, but with the Lpad, that can be adjusted to suit preferences. I had very good luck with the Danish Oil "Natural" finish that was recommended above. I had my concerns, but even the "Natural" darkened up. I definitely didn't need to use the "Dark Walnut". That would have looked too dark on small speakers. I went with two coats. I'll check on them after she's used them for a while and if they look like they need more I'll take care of it for her, but for now two was fine. I was able to make my own putty with sanding dust and wood glue. That is an alternative to buying wood filler for small dings. Use the surround dope from Vintage AR (from RoyC). It works and is safe when used sparingly. I've been using it a while on my KLH speakers and I won't use anything else. I did one light coating as thin as possible so I didn't impact the flexibility of the surrounds. I did not cover the dust caps with dope as these didn't have it on from the factory and no one seemed to indicate that this was needed. This is different from what I learned on the KLH speakers. These sound great and have more bass than I would expect for such a small speaker. Note that they don't pass the push test that I'm used to either, but again they have enough bass for what I'd expect. I chemically stripped the veneer and then sanded first with 200 grit and then later with 320 grit. Always with the grain...... I cleaned up the front baffles and painted them with a convenient black (satin) spray can I had in the garage. They look better, but won't win any beauty contests with the grills off, but I'm not planning for these to be off ever again. I didn't touch the back panel at all except to glue down the labels on the back that were curling up in a couple of places. I was lucky that the original labels were in pretty decent condition. The original badges cleaned up nicely with "Brasso". An easy job. Had I more time I might have put a clear lacquer to keep them from tarnishing. I went with Dayton caps from PE. It's my habit and they work well. Others might want to try a different brand, but I don't think you can go wrong with Daytons. Here is the parts information: Dayton Audio DMPC-20 20uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor Part # 027-436 Note that I didn't bother to remove the old caps. I just cut the wires and left them bracketed into the speaker. It would have been unnecessary work to remove them IMHO. With the work done on these they'll be good for another 50 years. I expect the Dayton Poly's to last and last in comparison with the typical electrolytics. I don't know about the longevity of the Lpads, but they have to be better than the stock pots. Assuming my daughter doesn't blow the drivers out, I presume she can run these forever with only the occasional maintenance on the veneer and to dust the grills. The best part of it though is that they are vintage, furniture quality, collectable, small enough to not get in the way in any room, and it's very hard to do significantly better acoustically with modern speakers. The kicker was the price I got them at. Even though I had to put in more money for parts and quite a bit of labor, I felt that it was very worthwhile. Thanks to larrybody, ra.ra, RoyC and JKent for their resident expert guidance on this project. They helped guide me down the right paths when I was taking the wrong fork in the road a few times.

Ok. Done. Here are some pics. They sound great! She's coming tomorrow for her birthday present. I'm getting her a more modern receiver and turntable to get by with until I can get her a proper vintage arrangement to go with the AR-4X's. I've got several Receiver/TT's in the queue that would be nice pairings with them - eventually. I ordered the knobs from PE were mentioned above. I'll see how big they are and maybe retrofit them later at her house if they aren't too big.

Very nearly done. There were a few corner dings and small chips that I filled with sanding dust mixed with wood glue along the way. I took Larry's advice and went with the Danish Oil Natural finish. So far I've got two quick coats on and might go with a third. Even though it is clear, the oil finish darkened it up anyways. All that is left is to maybe put on one more coat, dope the surrounds and maybe put on the AR knobs I have. Image 42 has both without and with the Danish oil on the two speakers side-by-side. I'm glad I did go with the natural finish because the dark walnut would have been overpowering for these small bookshelves. This is dark enough. The veneer is in good enough shape that I could go lighter and not have to hide a lot of imperfections too. Here are some pics of the final stages. I've got to admit I'm a little jealous of my daughter now that they are almost done and looking so good. Her birthday is on January 1. They'll be done by then.

The glue was very brittle and didn't appear to adhere very well. Kind of like old peanut brittle and didn't stick much better than peanut brittle either. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a source of cabinet leaks for AR-4X's. It might be something to investigate - if I had another set.

Thanks Ra.ra, Yes, there were no staples. The glue looked yellow translucent like modern gorilla glue. It was very brittle and I was able to use a putty knife to remove it from both the crossover plate and the cabinet in about 30 minutes. I have since re-applied it with new glue and I have a brick resting on it while it cures.

Had a day yesterday playing Christmas music through them. Had two goof-ups. - My wife broke the surprise. She didn't know we were going to wait until her birthday. Oh well. I committed to getting her a stop-gap turntable and receiver since she doesn't have anything to drive it with right now. Eventually I plan on getting her a Heathkit AR-13 and a Dual 1226 waiting in the queue to go with the AR-4X's. For now I'll get her something to get by from the collection. - After everyone went home I was trying to press on the knobs that came with the Lpads just to see how they'd fit. They took a little more effort than I liked and then suddenly the terminal plate broke loose! Ouch! Now I need to glue it back on. I also found out that the grill on one of them is very very tight. Not sure if it swelled or what. Not sure how to deal with that. Anyway. Here's what's left to do. 1. Glue the terminal plate back on. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. 2. Paint the front baffle and speaker faces. Need to figure out how to mask the surrounds and cones. 3. Fill the dings with home-made filler from the dust collected from sanding the cabinets and some wood glue. 4. Seal the surrounds. Check for leaks. 5. Danish Oil. Probably the Dark Walnut I have on hand. Some comments about the Lpads without the resistor...... I think they sound nice. Perhaps slightly bright, but there are times when I might like it this way. They have enough bass right now to be satisfying (even before I seal the surrounds.) They'll belong to my daughter, so I might not be listening to them much in the future, but it is good to know if another pair come along that I have a sound choice to leave out the resistor. Thanks Guys!!!! I really really appreciate your help.

Ok. The Lpads are in and I've got Christmas music running through them. I put them together without the resistors for expediency. They are closed up now - maybe for good. I've got several days of veneer and baffle cleanup and I need to seal the woofers, but they are electrically done. My daughter is coming for Christmas dinner but won't know that these will be hers on her Birthday on January 1. Larry's diagram was invaluable, but one small thing was that the 1 and 3 terminals on my Lpads were reversed. I followed his numbering without paying attention to the actual positioning on the diagram and found the Lpads were working backwards. Once I assumed that his numbering was backwards from my Lpads I made the correction and it worked. They sound great! The Lpad in full increase might be just a little too bright. That's good because it will allow the fine control to back it off to where she likes it. Here are some pics of my Lpads where you can see I've hooked them up per his diagram (by ignoring his numbering which is reversed from my Lpads). You can see where mine are numbered in reverse order from his diagram. I.e. Mine are numbered 1, 2 3 clockwise - his is 1, 2, 3 counter-clockwise. I abandoned the old cap in place. Didn't want to drill out the old rivets.

Ok. You guys have me convinced to go with the Lpads. It's Christmas Eve though and I don't have the 25 ohm resistors. I'll see if the local parts house is open today. If not I may try w.o. I did actually install them and try them out they are a bit scratchy even after cleaning. I have some pretty cool stuff that takes off all of the oxides called "Krud Kutter". I picked it up from Wally World. It did actually remove all the oxidation and rust, but it does feel smooth and it is a bit scratchy. I'll pull them and put in the Lpads. Once out I'll take some pics of the old pots and post for the record.

Thanks Kent. Looks like I can save the original pots..... They aren't bad at all. In the process of sanding the cabinets and trying to clean up the drivers now. I'll be working on the pots tonight. Only one pot was jumpered. The other was in better shape electrically. I'll check them with my multimeter to be sure there isn't any hidden issues. Here's some pics of the worst one.

Caps and Lpads arrived yesterday. Going to go inside and pull the old pots for an inspection. I have a concern with the Lpads I ordered per my inspection of the values and how it changes the impedance of the tweeter circuit. I think the DCR is too low at 8 ohms. I also noticed this thread where others are calling the 8 ohm Lpad into question. Hopefully I can restore the originals and not have to deal with this topic.

Well, I tried the bleach thing on the grill cloth but with 2 parts water and 1 part bleach it lighted both the stain and the cloth so the two still had the same contrast. I changed to 50-50 mix and that brightened and removed the stain, but I had to re-apply a few times. There is definite shrinkage and the fabric started separating in one area. I had to stop. Good enough! I'll get some pics and post soon. One thing to mention though that even after it dried for day there was a funky smell coming from the cloth like B.O. Yuck! I hope that goes away. I cleaned the badges with Brasso. That made a difference. See for yourself. Been busy at work so I haven't continued on the cabinets. Maybe tomorrow.

I'm going to try cleaning the pots. I found an older thread in this forum where Roy had posted some pics of the pot disassembly. I didn't realize these were so serviceable. Here is the thread for others benefit in the future.

Hi ra.ra, Thanks for all of the great information. That is so very very helpful. They do indeed have the badges with the red lettering. I've attached a pic. What is the best to clean it with? Maybe Brasso? I'll have to look at the curly Q's next time I open them up, but I think the manufacturer was just getting crazy wrapping the wire around one of the terminals on the pot. I've ordered the LPads from PE that were mentioned in one of Kent's threads on the AR-4x along with a set of Dayton caps (my usual standby). I'll step back and revisit your mention that these are pots before I do an install/replace. At least I have some parts coming just in case the originals aren't salvagable. I just finished masking off the front and back panels (see pics). I'm going to chemical strip them next and start sanding. I'll take your tip on the dark walnut under consideration. It's going to take some time and work before I have to make that decision. I'm also going to try the bleach thing on the grill cloth but with 2 parts water and 1 part bleach. Gotta go to the store because the Misses is out of bleach. I'll skip the knob then unless someone can claim to know that they actually came with one. That way I still have parts for my KLH Five project. BTW, I was playing them on my Marantz and without being serviced they do sound pretty decent. I have to believe that after a recap and light seal they'll be even better.

Ok. Some more information.... And more questions. The caps are original. There are other pics on the internet of the exact same caps. I measured them and they have drifted downwards. One is about 11uF and the other is 17uF. I'll be ordering new ones soon. I normally go with Daytons, but I'm open to suggestions if anyone has had good luck with others. I put them back together and I'm doing a listen right now. The Lpads aren't as good as I hoped. In running them I'm finding that they are crunchy when I turn them and they do cut in/out a bit. Definitely need service or replacement. Any suggestions which way I should go? I can get the replacements from PE suggested in other threads, but if the thought is to just fix the originals I can do that. I'm not afraid. Next step is to mask off the front baffle and back panel so I can work on the veneer. Any suggestions on chemical strip and sand; or just sand?

I keep adding to my queue and I'm not working them off fast enough. Recently my daughter asked if it was possible to convert some KLH surround speakers into something nicer. She had bought a house that had these cheapy tiny KLH surround speakers hanging on the wall and was apparently thinking about some KLH 17's that I did for my son about a year ago. (Jealously maybe?) Anyway I was thinking about how to address what she asked and along came a set of AR-4X's in CL that I just couldn't pass up. I'm going to do these quickly for her for Christmas present as a surprise (or her birthday on Jan 1 if I can't get them done on time.) The speakers are in very good unrestored condition. Original grills. Original Xover (I'm pretty sure). Original Lpads (no scratchiness during a brief listen before buying). Original badges. Original papers on the backs. The woofers seem to have a date of Oct 28 1972, but they have fabric surrounds (not sure if that is strange or not.) And the drivers all work! For the most part they seem to just need service and some cabinet work. Here's what I think I need to do, but I'll have some questions of the experts. - Need to recap. It seems to have some huge blue Sprague caps that are strapped in with what look to be original rivets. They look rather strange for original caps, but the way they are installed makes me think they are original. The strap appears to be covering the value, but I'm hearing it should be 20uF. I've got a meter and can give them a measure to see if they are close to that value. - Need to inspect the Lpads a little closer. I've opened them up to take pics and inspect. The Lpads seem to be original. I'll close them up and hook them up to my Marantz 2220B to have a listen and verify they are problem free. - Lpads don't have knobs on them. I'll need to verify that the originals are the same as I recently picked up from geekyshrink for my KLH Fives. If so, then I'll borrow from that project. - Need to dope the cloth surrounds. I have the stuff from vintage_ar already. The dust cap is fabric too and I can see through it. It doesn't look like it was originally doped. Should I put dope on the dust cap (or maybe just use any sealant since it doesn't need to be pliable?) Is the usual push test sufficient to check the seal? - Should I strip and sand the cabinets or just sand, fill some divots, and refinish. On other projects I've done the full strip, filled divots and used Danish Oil (Dark Walnut). Not sure what others might suggest. There are the usual scratches and corner chips and such, otherwise the veneer isn't too bad and appears very restorable. - The grill cloths are yellowed and stained but otherwise in decent condition. I've seen posts (ra.ra maybe?) where a bleach solution (sprayed on) brightened and removed most of the stains. Maybe I should gently go that route? - The badges are the original screw in type, but seem to be discolored and a bit scratched. Not sure if a cleaning will help. I'll get some pics later and share. - Face on the tweeters is surface rusty. I'll have to deal with it somehow. I have some satin spray paint (rustoleum I think) I could use once they are cleaned of rust. - Need to get some velcro for the grills. I might have some on hand, but will need to check. - The original foam gaskets seem to be kind of ok. Need a recommendation as to whether I can reuse them. Maybe wait on the push test to determine? - The fill seems to be chopped up. Is this fiberglass or rockwool? I'm used to seeing batting, but this seems to be small pieces. It was stuffed pretty full too. Not used to it being packed in so tight. - I have two tiny speaker hangers on the back of each. Did they come this way or can I assume they were added by a previous owner? (See pics of serial numbers where the hanger is shown.) Here are some initial pics. Oh, btw I paid $75 for them. I felt that was an excellent deal.