sWilly
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Posts posted by sWilly
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17 hours ago, genek said:
The dark stain is similar to what the last generation of classic ARs with the Norwood address looked like.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.
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18 hours ago, DavidR said:
I think the cabinets look great with the darker stain.
Me too.
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Update to these AR-2ax's. They have been completely restored: new caps, pots cleaned, woofer surrounds sealed. A Dremel with a wire brush works great for cleaning the pots. It took some serious sanding but the tops of the cabinets that were trashed turned out pretty nice. I know that some will consider it blasphemy, but I stained them with an ebony stain to give them a dark walnut look (the reddish walnut wasn't going to work with the room these are going in). The original grills had permanent stains so I dyed them black and made a second set with some vintage looking fabric from Amazon. I guess I can switch them depending on my mood. Comparing them to some '68 3a's it surprising how different they are. The 2-ax's seem to have more pronounced mids while the 3a's are boosted in the upper mids. The 3a's seem more balanced overall and generally win out over the 2ax's for me. There are some songs where I prefer the 2-ax's so it depends on the material to some extent. Both are great sounding speakers.
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Yeah, that seems improbable, doesn't it? The serial numbers are 77623 and 78028. The '58 stamps are on the 77623. I haven't opened the other one up yet but I'm going to predict different date stamps on that one.
I do believe they were assembled at the same time though, as both crossover/control boards were originally installed upside down. Unfortunately, the original owner used them in the upside-down position so the tops are really scratched up.
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Huh. Everything would indicate that these are very early 3ax's using parts from '58 then.
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2 hours ago, genek said:
First generation 2ax was 1964. Earlier models may have used the same drivers. Hard to imagine drivers sitting in factory parts storage that long, though. Any sign that driver's may have been replaced?
The grilles were still glued on with the original glue and everything indicates these are original. Were the red dome tweeters even made in 1958? It could be the stamps are wrong, but it's odd that it appears on both the mids and tweeters. Couldn't read the woofer stamps.
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A few days ago I was walking the dog and came across an estate sale that was giving away everything for free. I didn't see anything interesting but I asked if they happened to have any old stereo equipment. They did! They ended up giving me a pair of AR-2ax's (along with a Pioneer PL-518 turntable and a Kenwood TK-66 receiver). Quite a find!
As usual, the hi and mids were not working. Today I opened them up and cleaned the pots. Thankfully, all the drivers work and sound great.
I think I am going to go ahead and do a full restoration on these: new caps, new pots, seal the surrounds with the good stuff from Roy, new grill cloth, and refinish the cabinets.
Question for all of you: I took some pictures of the stamps on the drivers and it looks like they say 1958. Is that possible? I didn't think 2ax's were made until later. ??
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Yessir, I cleaned and rebuilt the pots so I am aware of their existence and purpose. I may still do that someday. I'm just not really feeling the need to at the moment.
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Yeah, that's exactly where I've ended up. I was waffling about getting the tweeters rebuilt, but the other day I was listening for a long time and realized I'm really enjoying them as they are. Besides, if I need some overly in-your-face treble I can listen to my B&W's. ha!
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11 minutes ago, Aadams said:
I have three pairs that were in same condition as your tweeters when I got them. My speakers sounded warm, luscious, rolled-off, beautifully retro, but not modern.
The difference in rebuilt tweeters and working 50 year old originals is enormous. Freqs from 2500hz to 5khz, the last octave of musical instrument range, are all effortlessly reproduced by your midrange driver. You are missing the sparkle of the natural second harmonics from 5khz to 10 khz, added by the 3a tweeter, that your ear was originally expecting. They should sound modern, as your ear expected.
Interesting. I was originally going to send my tweeters to Roy for a rebuild but I no longer feel the need to do so. They now have the sparkle and "air" that was missing originally. Audible even though my old ears start to roll off at about 11k these days. They are far from modern sounding which is ok, and actually what I was looking for. My other listening rooms are B&W's and studio monitors so I really wanted something mellower. I can listen to these 3a's for hours where I tend to burn out on the other speakers pretty quickly.
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8 hours ago, genek said:
What you experienced is most likely a common psychoacoustic effect. You had expectations of a particular sonic improvement (much higher tweeter output), and didn't appreciate the different one you actually got until you stopped looking for the one you had expected.
BTW, those speakers will sound considerably better if you can raise them up off the floor. 10-12 inches is good; double that would be better.
Yeah, I did consider that, but honestly I think they've opened up a bit. When I first got them I would turn the tweeters all the way up and could barely hear them. Now the seem to match the other drivers nicely. It's possible I've tricked myself I don't think so, the difference is significant.
I do plan on making some stands, but only a few inches. The wife nixed anything taller
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20 minutes ago, Aadams said:
Did you have the tweeters rebuilt? Rebuilt tweeters add a lot of output at the 5k crossover region.
No, they are original.
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Just a quick update on this AR-3a restoration.
Here's what was done- full recap with Mundorf caps, cleaned and re-installed the original pots, one woofer rebuilt by Roy C, and new sealant on the surrounds.
Interestingly, at first I wasn't super impressed, particularly with the tweeters, which seemed really quiet. However, after a few hours things started sounding really good. I suspect that speakers sat unused for many years. I wonder if it's possible they needed a "re-breaking in" period?
In any case, I am loving these speakers! Thanks for everyone's help in getting them restored.
Despite the small, less than ideal, room they sound great. Now to build to some low stands to get them up off floor a little.
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13 minutes ago, RoyC said:
The "seal" is not the cause of the distortion. The most likely cause is deterioration of the adhesive holding the surround and/or spider mounting rings to the woofer frame. Another possible cause is deterioration of the adhesive holding the cone and spider together. These are increasingly common issues unique to the AR 10 and 12 inch cloth surround woofers. I've been doing lots of these repairs of late.
Roy
Thanks Roy. After reinstalling the woofer and rotating it 180 degrees the problem is worse. If I depress the cone with a little more pressure on one side than the other I am hearing some scraping/rubbing. Are you up for another repair?
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Well, the AR-3a's are recapped, pots cleaned, surrounds are sealed, and reassembled. I gave them a try last night and they sounded fantastic. I started with my 100wpc AV receiver because it's the highest wattage amp I have. It's sounded ok but I had to move the volume up quite a bit to get the AR's to respond. Meh. Then I hooked it up to my 20wpc NAD3020 (about 58wpc at 4 ohms) and they sounded awesome. I was barely pushing a watt and had some nice volume. The 3020 never fails to surprise me. What an amazing little amp.
Anyway, things were going great until I put on Billie Eilish's "Your Power" which is my go to test for deep bass. At a moderate listening level I started getting a buzz in one of the woofers, sounded like the coil hitting the magnet. I turned it down quickly and gave the woofers a push test. The good speaker took about 2-3 seconds to return. The one with the noise definitely returned faster but took at least a second. I'm going to try reinstalling that woofer to get a better seal and see if the noise goes away. If not, what are your thoughts? Rebuild?
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6 minutes ago, RickB said:
You may the tweeters rebuilt Roy and Chris1 are the people to contact
Yes, thanks, I've been chatting with Roy. I'm just trying to determine if they need to be rebuilt or if what I'm hearing is normal for these speakers.
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I did a quick sound check on the speakers to verify I did the recap correctly. Everything seems to be working but I do have a question. The tweeter sounds really nice but seems to have a lot less output than the mid and woofer. Is this normal for these speakers? Or maybe I'm not using enough watts (tested on a 50 watt Marantz). I understand these speaker have a pretty mellow high end but they currently seem to lack air or presence. Thoughts?
I gotta say, the midrange is stunning. Female vocals felt like they were right in the room. Piano and upright bass- also stunning.
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20 hours ago, AR55 said:
If you search this forum, you will find that this topic has been discussed more than a few times. The recommendations range from 60wpc to 400wpc or more. Unless you have the speakers in a very large, dead room, 120wpc into 4 ohms should be adequate. My AR-11s are powered by a 200wpc amp, but I have never come close to needing that much power. Most of the time they draw 2 watts or less. It is a rare occurrence when they need more than 20 watts.
Thanks. I did quite a bit of searching/reading last night. Opinions vary but in general it seems like more watts brings out the best in these speakers.
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16 hours ago, RoyC said:
Looks good from here...
Roy
Thanks Roy, much appreciated.
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1 hour ago, Norman Nicolai said:
A vintage Adcom GFA-555 in good shape might be worth considering. It has plenty of power, rated at 325 wpc into 4 ohms. You should probably stay away from the 555II since it reportedly has problems that the original 555 amp did not have. I was looking for one about a year ago but settled on a Mitsubishi DA-A10 with less power to drive my 2Xa's, but the 2Xa's are far less power hungry. You may have to go slightly more than $500 for a 555 in great shape, but there are a lot of them around and you might get lucky.
I think there were a great many Adcom GFA-555's driving AR-3a's years ago. Perhaps someone can chime in on how well 3a's and 555's pair?
Thanks Norman. I've been eyeing some Adcoms. I will look closer at the GFA-555. Regarding watts, what might be a good minimum for the AR-3a's? I'm not a super loud listener anymore. I just want them to sound good at low to moderately high levels.
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I got one of the speakers recapped tonight. I'm wondering if someone with more experience with these can verify that I've done this correctly. The large cap is a 47 with a 3.3 strapped to it to replace the 50. The small pair is a 3.3 and 2.7 to replace the 6.
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24 minutes ago, DavidR said:
You have a 30 day return window.
I've owned 2 Emo amps. First the XPA2 Gen2 which I sold and got an SA250 which I liked so much I got a second one.
Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts on the Emo. I'm leaning towards the BasX A2. Andrew seems like them:
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I'm wondering if the Emotiva BasX A2 Might be a good fit with the 3a's? 250 WPC at 4ohms.
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Woops, typo. It was supposed to be 2238b. There's some NAD's in that price range but yeah, the only way I could get a vintage Marantz, or other power amp in that range would be to find a non-working one and restore it myself. Which is a consideration.
AR-2ax Find and Restoration (and date??)
in Acoustic Research
Posted
Thanks, yes. I had some left over from my 3a restoration.