ka7niq
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Posts posted by ka7niq
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1 hour ago, DavidR said:
I have 500wpc current pusher into 4 ohm amp in a Class AB, dual mono design and modern. High damping factor. Killer with the 9s and 90s
I bought the amp I use from a Guitar Center for 150, with a 30 day money back warranty. It will do 425 rms into 4 all day long https://www.ccisolutions.com/StoreFront/jsp/pdf/MAC-M1400I.PDF
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4 minutes ago, ar_pro said:
Yes, 500 watts sounds about right! These are among the most power-hungry speakers I've ever encountered - they're like a sponge for wattage.
I discovered Pro Sound Amplifiers years ago, and never looked back. There are some real deals to be had on the old school boat anchor type of Pro Sound amps, because many of the Pro Sound Guys have went to smaller and lighter Class D amps.
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10 hours ago, Stimpy said:
I've been doing exactly that, to my 90s. Or at least, trying to restore them. I recapped the crossovers, with Mundorf poly's and added new Mills resistors. I've replaced all driver surrounds, and added Dynamat to the baskets. I also added a couple of extra cross braces internally. The LMR tube enclosure has been reglued. I'm now working on the cabinets, stripping them down. Though, I'm not sure if I want to refinish them back to stock, or create a pair of Naked 90s? The only question is how to refinish the front, as the 90s aren't veneered on front. It's plywood.
(Thanks ar_pro)
Stock, and do not remove the acoustic blanket, and if you already did, be thinking about how to make a new one.
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34 minutes ago, AR surround said:
I have never cared for the presentation of the AR9's when placed right up against the wall. Mine are both 5 ft away from the back wall, with the left speaker a foot from the left wall, the right speaker two feet from the right wall and both toed in. They sound great and I never have been disappointed with the bass in this configuration. My only complaint is that they seem to demand to be played loud to demonstrate their virtues.
Great ! What is happening is the 2 side walls are providing the loading the woofers need. Glad it is working out for you. My pair were in a large room, well away from the side walls. The reason they need to be played loud is, they were designed for flat low bass response. Many designers intentionally build a "bass bump" into their speakers, to give the Illusion of bass.
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19 minutes ago, ar_pro said:
I think that the concept of near field imaging is a more recent construct, say the past 30 years or so, with highly directional monitors establishing the performance parameters for near field imaging, and reviewers creating the language used to describe the effect. The same sort of thing has been going on with headphones for the past couple of decades.
Far field imaging was baked into the commercial application of early home stereo reproduction, and was certainly important in the design of the AR-3, AR-3a, and AR-LST systems.
Since this topic is probably headed for the Other Speakers Forum, let me put in a plug for the far field imaging capability of the Magnepan 3.7i and 20.7 ribbon models. In a large-enough room, with significant available power, there's really nothing like them; "spooky" is an understatement.
Amen! I currently own 5 pairs of high end speakers, and a pair of Magnepan 1.6's are one of them. My room is 20 by 24, with 4 large bass traps, in the corners. Powered by the awesome sounding Mackie 1401 "Pro Sound" amplifier with over 500 watts RMS into 4 ohms, they can be stunning. But then, I have taken great care, to be sure my first lateral reflection points are the same, in my room. I also have a pair of DBX Soundfield 1A Speakers. These speakers have 4 - 10 inch woofers, 4 - 5 Inch midranges, and 8 Tweeters, and are designed to have a more or less Omnidirectional radiation pattern. Pulled out a 1/3 or more into room, they too are stunning, as far as imaging. No loss of bass even 1/2 way into the room with these, because they are equalized by their controller, and you can simply adjust both the boost and bass level.
My other speakers are HiRes AR 1's and HiRes AR 9's, and huge Kindel Audio PLS A's. The Kindel PLS A's are big line array speakers, with a total of 22 drivers per side! Each speaker has 16 1 inch dome tweeters, and 6 - 6.5 inch woofers. I am in the process of refreshing their crossovers.
My last pair of speakers are Fostex powered monitors, hooked to my computer.
LOL, needless to say, I am Single !!!!!!!!!!
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3 minutes ago, Aadams said:
This thread may be destined for the Other Speakers Forum but right now I have one last question about "spooky imaging". Is "spooky imaging" a near field or far field phenomenon?
Adams
Well ........ I have heard it happen in both the near and far field, because most of the rooms in the houses I have lived in, I was in the near field.
Talk about spooky imaging. I own a pair of DBX Soundfield 1a Speakers, that are more or less omnidirectional. Out 1/3 of the way into the room, you can't tell where the sound is coming from. I have also owned OHM Speakers that are also omnidirectional, and they do the same thing.
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15 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
Back on topic. All this CES talk, reminds me of a speaker brand that might fit into our AR vs Paradigm discussion. Alon. Or Nola, whichever you find. Now there is a speaker line that sounds both vintage and new. Warm, relaxed, yet dynamic and detailed. I've heard Alon's at dealers, and Nola's at shows, and I've always been impressed with their sound. Plus, they sound good on solid state, but love tubes. A win-win.
Yes! Carl Marschiotto of Dahlquist is their designer, and indeed they sound good! They are imaging champs as well.
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4 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
I met Brian, Jim Thiel, and Arnie Nudell at that CES. All 3 gone now...!
A funny thing though. I was in the Genesis Tech room, listening to their new speakers. Sounding very good, even in surround. But, over in the corner, was this diminutive, quiet man. He smiled at men, and asked if he could help, and how I liked the speakers? It was then that I realized it was Arnie! I got so flustered and tongue-tied, I couldn't answer...! I still regret that.
Wow, I have never met Arnie or Jim Thiel. I have met Richard Vandersteen, and Albert Vonschweikert, and Bob Carver. Actually, I have been over Bob's house several times, and heard the transistor amp he took to Stereophile that he made sound exactly like a Conrad Johnson Tube Amp. It really did! The problem is, he could only do it on one set of speakers and wires.
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1 minute ago, Stimpy said:
I met Brian and Shirley, along with John Casler, and the great James Bongiorno (Zoot Suit and all), at CES 2004. Brian was demoing the RM30's and 215 sub, along with Jim's amps. A stunning system.
Widerange Ribbons! Wow. A truly rare creature. I wonder if you'd appreciate them more now?
Bongo is dead too
Yes, I was too inexperienced as an audiophile, back when I had the widerange ribbons, and even lacked an amp to properly drive them. I WISH I had them now !
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21 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
Me too. Very much so. A talented designer, than never got the respect that he was due.
Absolutely ! I met Brian way back in 1982, when I flew down from Seattle, to go to his shop in the Frisco Bay area. I owned the VMPS Widerange Ribbons back then, and returned them to Brian. He gave me my money back, and a pair of VMPS Supertowers. He just asked me to fly down and hear the Widerange Ribbons properly set up and powered. LOL, I was in my 20's, back in the 80's, and the big VMPS Supertowers were great for me back then. Big, forgiving speakers with stunning bass the VMPS Supertowers were. Just the thing for the Hard Rock I listened to back then.
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17 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
Higher than typical ESR, was why I tried the ClarityCaps. For poly's, they measure very similar to NPE's.
I see so many people make the big mistake of replacing high ESR NPE Caps, with very low ESR Poly Caps, then wonder why their speakers sound like crap.
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2 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
Hey ka7niq,
Off Topic. Didn't you used to hang out over at the VMPS Forum? I seem to remember you there? A RM40 owner? I remember you and Brian used to go to war at times.
Good stuff.
Yes, Brian and I have had our disagreements, but many agreements too
I miss Brian, really I do.
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14 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
Yes, I've already refreshed the crossovers. I used ClarityCap CSA polys on the dome tweeters, and ClarityCap ESA's on the dome mids. The parallel shunts were Bennic NPE's. I added Dayton foil bypass caps on all caps too.
Cool !
I was just reading a thread by Carlspeak, where he tested some new ERSE Mylar Caps, and found fairly high ESR. On a recent order from ERSE, I needed to meet the minimum order requirement, so I ordered some ERSE Mylars I really did not need.
I just got an ESR Meter, so just for the hell of it, I measured the ESR of the new ERSE Mylar Caps. I was surprised how high it was, especially since they were right on the money as far as measured value goes.
As Carlspeak mentioned, this high ESR makes them an excellent choice for NPE replacement !
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13 minutes ago, Aadams said:
How would you characterize "spooky imaging"? Is it in the category of "you are there" or "they are here"?
Both, as long as the speakers "disappear". Actually, few speakers can "get out of their own way".
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3 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
I've had similar experiences to you. AR Vertical speakers can be hard to position, to get a good blend of frequency response and soundstage balance. But, AR's are more resolving than I think they're sometimes given credit for. The better their associated gear, the more their sound improves, including image width and depth.
I found this out by accident. I had just purchased a new-used preamp. I wasn't expecting anything drastic sound wise. But when I did a quick and dirty set up, for the new pre, and switched everything on, I was floored by the improvements I heard. Especially imaging. That quick session produced the best, most palpable imaging that my AR90's had ever produced, to that point. Very realistic. Holographic. I never knew the speakers had been capable of that type of performance. I've been chasing my tail, ever sense, trying to improve that experience, when I should have left well-enough alone...!
I have done that too, tore apart great sounding systems, when I should have left well enough alone.
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5 minutes ago, Stimpy said:
I recently found a pair of AR58S speakers, via Craigslist, at a very good price. The young millennial I bought the speakers from, was replacing them with Paradigm Studio 40 V2's. Unfortunately, the Paradigms were not hooked up, so I didn't get the opportunity to hear them. And hopefully, not unfortunately for the new owner, he hadn't heard his new speakers either. A friend had recommended them, and said they were better than his AR's. The millennial took him for his word, which allowed be to be the happy new owner of the 58S's...!
Cool, and a great find ! I have never owned those, but have heard them, way back when. Do you plan to update their crossovers ?
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15 minutes ago, Aadams said:
About all that can be said for certain about the speakers mentioned, is they are all capable of 10 octave performance and they are towers. The only meaningful way to compare their performance is by ear in the same room in the same position with the same source. A properly operating AR9 or 90 can image just fine in the near field if you are willing to compromise flat bass performance by toeing them in away from walls. If Paradigm is truly comparable there will little difference between it and the the 9s. The big variable hear is subjective taste and the human ear.
Adams
Very true! I found that they needed to be toed in, and they did need to be out from the back wall, before I got image depth. However, they lost too much Bass to leave them that way. I wound up with them toed in, but the corner of the speakers right against the back wall. I still lost a little bass, compared to them being all against the wall, but the improvement in imaging was worth it, to me. Still, I never gould get that "spooky" imaging out of them. I have been a "speaker junkie" since the 80's. I always seem to have between 3 and 5 pairs hanging around. I seem to remember that back when I had the old AR's, I also had B&W Matrix 801's and Vandersteen 2C Speakers, maybe I still had my old Celestion SL 6's ? All 3 of the speakers I just listed are capable of "Spooky Imaging". IOW, the speakers "Disappear" in the room. I was never able to get the AR's to image like that, in my room. YMMV
However, I remember the AR 9 and the AR 90 as big, pleasant sounding speakers, with room rattling bass.
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6 hours ago, Pete B said:
The early versions of the Paradigm Studio 100 had a pair of 8.5" woofers port tuned to
a very low 20 Hz. They have tremendous power handling around 20 Hz but could probably
use a little boost there to get the most out of them.
There was an excellent review many years ago in Audio magazine.
Here is another review:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/paradigm-reference-studio100-v2-loudspeaker-measurements
Actually, I think ALL versions of the Paradigm Studio 100 had dual woofers, and so did the Studio 60. Regardless, they are not a pair of 12's like in the AR 9's or AR 90's. Few speakers can match the bass of properly powered AR 9 or AR 90's.
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1 hour ago, Stimpy said:
Th AR90 and AR9 both ran the UMR dome from 1200Hz to 7KHz. Only the LMR driver responded to the woofer crossover frequency of 200Hz.
Specifications
Type: 4 way, 5 driver loudspeaker system
Frequency Response: 23Hz to 30kHz
Power Handling: 250W
Recommended Amplifier: 50 to 300W
Crossover Frequency: 200, 1200, 7000Hz
Impedance: 4Ω
Sensitivity: 87dB
Bass: 2 x 250mm acoustic suspension
Midbass: 1 x 200mm acoustic suspension
Midrange: 1 x 38mm hemispherical dome
Tweeter: 1 x 19mm hemispherical dome
Dimensions: 1102 x 368 x 386mm
Weight: 37kg
That is correct. It has been quite awhile since I have had either AR 9's or AR 90's, and I forgot about the lower midrange cone, that plays from 200 to 1200 hz.
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3 minutes ago, AmA732MX1 said:
Thank you for your opinion. It is what I was afraid I would hear. I wanted AR90’s so bad 40 years ago and now that I can finally afford them, I am thinking I may be in for a bit of a let down if I were to obtain them and restore. I realize it is not fair to compare them to new technology, but I don’t think I can retrain my ears after years with the Paradigm’s. They are a very good imaging speaker for sure. One of the things that made the AR’s so magical was the bass extension. Back then there werent any powered subs. At least none that I ever heard.
Yes, a pair of either the AR 9's, or the AR 90's , with enough power, will literally rattle the room !
But you need a powerful amp, and one that will not crap out, into 4 ohms.
The Paradigm's are designed for uniform off axis dispersion. The AR 90's not so much. Their dome midrange driver plays down to 200 hz, and clear up to 7000 hz, before the big dome hands off to the small tweeter. This wreaks havoc with the off axis dispersion. The guy I sold my old AR 90's to re designed his crossovers, to cut that big dome off sooner by dropping the crossover point from 7000 hz down to 3000 hz. This greatly improved the off axis dispersion, and the tweeter had no problem going down to 3000 hz either.
Perhaps stay with the Paradigm's, and satisfy your craving for Bass with a good Subwoofer ? SVS, Hsu, Velodyne, and Outlaw all make fine affordable subwoofers, to name a few.
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2 minutes ago, DavidR said:
So not happy with 23Hz ?
The AR90 was never meant to be an AR9. It holds it own and like the 9 it may not be the best in highs or mids or bass but nobody put it all together in one cabinet like the AR9.
Is it a fair comparison with a 40 y.o. speaker vs a new one ?
No it isn't fair to the AR 90, but the original poster asked for an opinion, in the first post in this thread. So, having owned both the AR 9 and the AR 90, as well as both the Paradigm models he asked about, I thought I would give him my opinion.
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2 hours ago, AmA732MX1 said:
Hello
Are there any AR90 owners who have heard Paradigm Studio towers? Like later model 60’s or 100’s? How would you compare the sound between these two towers? I used to sell AR’s about 40 years ago and I remember that they were very nice, but I am concerned about the top end possibly being too laid back for my current taste? I am considering buying a pair to restore, but I have no way to listen to them to be sure I will love them. I know they are very good and very accurate. We had 90’s and 9’s hooked up to a 150W ch. SAE amp and they sang very nice. I have a great sub, but I miss that incredible bottom end and warm signature they have.
Patrick
Early models of the big Paradigm Studio 100 tended to be a bit bright. Not hard and bright, but with a little too much top end energy, to my ears. However, this brightness was tamed in the models after the second version. The later model Paradigm 60 and 100 will destroy the AR 90's, in nearly every important to me way, except bass impact. The Paradigm Studio 100 is a single woofer speaker, and the AR 90 has a pair of woofers. Plus, the AR 90 is designed to go right against the back wall, for even more bass loading.
However, in my experience with the AR 90's, this close to the back wall placement compromises Imaging Depth, even with the acoustic blanket. The Paradigm Studio 60 and Studio 100's are voiced to be out several feet into the room, away from the back wall. They walk away from the AR 90's, as far as imaging depth goes.
Plus, the Paradigm's are higher in efficiency , and use better drivers. They are also better designed speakers, paying attention to all the research done by the Canadian National Research Council, that was unknown back in the days of the AR 90.
I have owned both the AR 90 and the AR 9.
To me, the AR 90 is a wanna be AR 9.
My God, it is almost 40 lbs lighter.
The AR 9 is a real room rattler, going way down to 18 hz. The AR 90 will not do that.
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On 8/12/2012 at 4:07 PM, Carlspeak said:
Detail performance tests were run on four ERSE capacitors to look at the effect of dielectric on ESR. Two 2.0 uF and two 3.9 (4.0) caps were tested. Each group had a polypropylene dielectric (Pulse-X brand with black color & gold printing) and a Polyester dielectric (yellow color with black printing).
What I found with these two levels of capacitance was a significant difference in ESR between the dielectrics in the 100 to 10000 hz range with PET generally trending higher in the freq. range evaluated. Below is a plot of the data obtained with a WT2.
IMO, the polyester ESR performance approaches that of an electrolytic. This may be of some value to those recapping that don't want to alter the voicing of the speaker or, where a slightly reduced response is needed in a particular frequency range.
The link below gives a good explanation of why ESR is different between the dielectrics.
I ordered some ERSE Mylar Caps, simply because I needed to spend some more money with them, to meet their minimum order requirements on a recent order. Just for the hell of it, I measure both value and ESR of 2 of their yellow Mylar Caps. Honestly, I was a bit surprised how High the ESR was !
The Values were right on the money, but ESR was high. In fact, I have measured some NPE that were lower than the ERSE Mylar.
I have some speakers I am re doing, and they use a mix of both Poly and NPE's. I plan to order and use ERSE Mylars to replace the 30 year old NPE's, figuring the high ESR of the ERSE Mylars will not change the voicing, when I replace the old stock NPE with them. Plus, I will get the 250 volt rating of the ERSE Mylars !!!!!
The ERSE Mylars will fit, right on Top of the old NPE's. I will leave the old NPE Caps on the board, cut the wires as close to the old caps as possible, and solder the new ERSE Mylar caps right to them.
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On 7/17/2012 at 3:09 PM, michiganpat said:
they went the way of the dodo with the last vestiges of the original AR when Recoton went bankrupt in ~2004.
I have the 312HO's, which were the direct predecessors to the Hi Res series. very nice speakers, but I can't compare to any real "classic era" AR's, as I've not had the pleasure of hearing any original or teledyne era 10" models. only thing my ears could compare to are my AR18's, which isn't fair (40" floorstander with a 12" woofer vs. a .38 cubic foot bookshelf with an 8" woofer). I'm sure they're voiced more "forward" than the classic eras, as my early 90's holographic imaging M5's have a more pronounced midrange than my AR18's, and my (new to me) late 80's rock partners sound in between my 18's and M5's as far as midrange forwardness.
I love my 312HO's great sound and imaging. I think mine sound better than my friend's polk LSi9's, which have the advantage of having a powered woofer section.
I have owned original AR 1's and AR LST's, as well as the huge AR 9's towers, with the 2 woofers on the sides, and the acoustic blanket. To MY ears none of the old classic AR Speakers hold a candle to the Hi Res AR 1 and AR 3. The AR 9's IMHO are a failed design speaker because their dual woofers require they be right up against a wall. That kills image depth, though they did have a nice midrange. My old LST's were fun, I must admit. They had a big sound, and were very musical, for their day. In general, the old AR Speakers were very inefficient, and rolled off sounding. The Hi Res AR 1 is an an incredible speaker, and is also 96 db efficient. It has a 15 inch subwoofer, powered by a 500 watt Sunfire amp.
I miss Brian, really I do.
New HI-Res AR9 -- any experience?
in Acoustic Research
Posted
I own AR 1's and AR 3's and the AR 4C Center
The Stereophile reviewer recommended the AR 1 for a Class B Rating. They are an excellent choice for someone who wants both a killer movie system, and an audiophile speaker, all in one. Be warned, a pair of HiRes AR 1's can easily overload most rooms with bass. That big 15 inch woofer, powered by a Sunfire 500 watts RMS Amp is almost too much, even in my 20 by 24 ft room.